BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE! (Page 36)

manfarr1974

2011-07-18 6:57 AM

in reply to: #3599925

Expert

701

Caratunk, Maine

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Steve!

First, good thought on the body glide powder!! I never thought of that, and it sounds like a smashing idea.

Tell me why to not start with protein too early? I have used it for the last month or so of training (the Perpetum) and so I am not sure it is extensively....but on a 110 mile ride and a few shorter rides. AND the powder in Special Needs would be Perpetum.

My salty plan was to eat pretzels at the aid stations, but I think I will put a pringles container in my SN bag just in case I need it. The aerobar stack is pretty funny, I like the idea! I am not coordinated enough, I can barely drink and ride though ha ha.

6 DAYS!

Mandy

2011-07-18 7:49 AM

in reply to: #3600323

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Joe,

Well done and congrat's on the race. Sounds like a tough one with the elevation changes. Thank goodness we don't have those hills here

2011-07-18 8:11 AM

in reply to: #3601068

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

stevebradley - 2011-07-18 7:09 AM JEFF - Good report, fine race! Unfortunately, I lack the wherewithal to bop back and forth betweent he report and here, so i'm doing this from memory -- and have to o my two-fingered pecking style before the memories fade! Given our talks about pushing hard enough to hurt, that is indeed interesting what you experienced at the end of the run. I can imagine exactly what is going through your head, and you actually expressed it quite clearly in your report.....but now what to do about it? One thing would be to train either with fartleks, or to try to get more disciplined about how you break up hard sections of your runs. the former is just where you do what you want, whenever it suits you. Feel like picking up the pace for however long? Do it. Feel like shuffling for a hunfdred yards or so? Do it. For the latter, it might be something like 10' warm-up, 5' hard, 10' moderate, 5' hard, 10' cool-down. You can do infinite variations of that sort of plan, staging the intervals and the intensity and the overall disciplined however you want. The goal is simply to get comfortable with pushing speed, and knowing what that feels like -- from your feet hitting to the scream, all the way up to what your brain is screaming at you to do (and how you answer back to it!). Somewhwre between those two approaches is what I used to do well in the run segments of races, which is what I call "surges". I don't do it so much anymore, aiming for the steady hardish effort throughout (but picking it up in the final however-many meters to the finish). I guess my first steps involved acclimatizing to the hard efforts - the surges - and then over time lengthening them so they camn be held for an extensive period.

I'll do some more of what you are suggesting in my training. I'm finding out that there is so much more to triathlon than just the workouts and training themselves. Don't get me wrong, nothing replaces "doing the work". But, the mental aspect of the game is so important. Understanding how to race and what is feels like to race your best is a whole new world to me. That's where your experience is invaluable. I'm certain it would take me years to learn this stuff on my own so thanks.

As for socks, well, I apologize if I've said this before. This is the frist group I've had, and I KNOW I've said this before.....but to which group, I'm never sure! Plus, I know that few people have the time or inclination to read everything, so I suppose repeating is not sucj a terrible thing. ANYWAY! My first few years of tri had me wearing socks on both the bike and the run. Then along about '05, maybe, I stopped wearing them on the bike, and that made life so much easier. that is, i no longer had to struggle getting socks on wet feet, and just waited until T2 to put them on when my feet were dry and all the sand, if present, had sifted to the bottom of my cleats. Then I just stpopped wearing socks at all, and of course that simplified matters even further. So! Try to get used to riding sockless, and then you will never evver have to fuss with drying your feet and/or getting socks onto them. I also mount with my cleats already on my pedals, so in most cases any sand on my feet comes off as I run barefoot to the mount line. Beyond that, though, I worry about very little, and if the ground is wet that just means I have wet feet to start the ride -- no different than the hundreds of rides I've done in rain. If you never make it to running sockless, then at least you have chosen (T2) to put socks on when most of the time your feet are fairly dry. Almost a win-win!

Okay, will give sockless biking a shot in training 1st. I have already lost one toenail with socks so it can't hurt!!

I will go back to your formal report and see what else I am missing here. Oh! I remember the comment about the Garmin in the swim cap to give you an idea of the extent of your zigzagging. That would be a very cool experiment to do....although I don't know how it would measure that exactly. Is it based on the assumption that when a swim course says it is 500m, say, that it really IS 500m? So then, does it come down to a case where if the Garmin says you swam 583m.....you know you wandered around quite a bit?

Actually Steve that is one neat thing about using technology. The Garmin I have is a GPS so not only does it track HR, distance, speed, etc.... but it also tracks map co-ordinates (don't know if that is the correct phase?). So after my workout I can download from the device to PC and on a map actually see my route. So for OWS's I can zoom down and see the zigzag's. It's pretty neat (I'm easily amused!!).

2011-07-18 8:27 AM

in reply to: #3601087

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

I saw Denise's results as well. What an inspiration!! You go Denise.

stevebradley - 2011-07-18 7:35 AM DENISE - Hey? I see your results; how are you doing? It looks to me as if the race got progressively better for you as it went along....but I'll wait to hear the definitive story from you. Congrats, though, to be sure!!!

2011-07-18 10:29 AM

in reply to: #3601106

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

MANDY -

The thing about maybe not starting protein too early is that for some people -- I think -- breaking down the protein can be problematic, especially over the course of a long day and with multiple stressors involved. But if you have trained with Perpetuem extensively, then I think you should be fine with it however and whenever you choose to use it.

At IMLP '04, I THINK I had one of my bottles as Accelerade, which has moderate protein in it. I'm guessing that the aerobottle had water, two of the bottles had HEED, and one had Accelerade. Then at special needs I started with Perpetuem, but I don't know what I stopped using - the HEED or the Accelerade. I would guess the latter.

I am sure I started the morning with a bottle of Sustained Energy, so there was a lot of protein in that, too. I guess I wasn't bothered by protein that day!

AND, I used Perpertupaste. What is Perpetupaste, you ask? Well!

Perpetupaste is made from mixing Perpetuem and water so it's in a gel-like consistency, and then putting it in a flask. Back then there was not yet AccelGel, so the only way to get decent protein on a long run was either carry a damn water bottle with you, or use Perpetupaste. Perpetuem had just come out a year or so before, adn in their early days that was mentioned as an alternative use to as a drink. (Their idea, but the name Perpetupaste was mine!!

). I LOVED using it for a few years, but over the past few half-irons I have done I have traouble gagging it down. I'm not sure why that is, and even when I mix it extra-loose it is still not the best thing for me. Maybe tat's pasrt of the root of the protein comment, but I'll quickly add that all too often ny stomach wants to reject food on HIM runs. I am fine with drinks, but have trouble with gels in particular. I can do great with them on shorter stuff, but HIM runs find them a problem.

ANYHOW, you might just want to play around with that over the next few days and see how it sits with you. If you could make a half-flask on Sunday morning and put it in your T2 bag, and then have a big hit of it before you start that run --- that might help. I say that in the confidence that if you can drink Perp you can also ingest it as a gellish thing.......but maybe at this point it would be safer to just hold off and work on that plan leading into Mont Tremblant!!!!

I have seen Perpetuem Solids; tried them? In fact, i have a container of Strawberry-Vanilla ones right in front of me, seal still intact. Hmmm. Why did I get them? And when? Well, I'm going to have one right now, see what it tastes like. Hold on.

Horse pills! Big, fat buggers....kinda chalky....easy to chew.....getting sort of gummy now......want water......mild taste.......sticking in my teeth.......need water!...........................okay overall!

It says that a serving size is THREE, and that might be hard to do. Also, the protein content is pretty small, but you know, were I to be doing a HIM in a few weeks I would work with those babies, figuring it's maybe more tolerable to me than gels are proving to be at that distance.

Alrighty then! Off to find my toothbrush and remove the carnage from my teeth. (Kind of nice aftertaste, however. Not quite yummilicious, but quite acceptable!)

Edited by stevebradley 2011-07-18 11:22 PM

AManCalledHawk

2011-07-18 3:56 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Member

Concord

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Wow, massive congrats to Jeff and Joe. Great race reports (Still haven't seen Denise's).

I'm just getting back in to training for my September race. (Work, 4th, house issues...) How come no one told me how hard it is to get back into training after an event? (Just kidding) In any event (pun intended), seeing Jeff and Joe's reports (and looking at a calendar) have done the trick.

Thanks for the inspiration guys. Catching up on pages of comments I've missed have reminded me just how much I have to learn about this sport and also inspired me. Thanks guys and gals. I'm sure I'll have questions in the next few days/weeks about how to get faster, not just increase distance; and the difference between open water swims with a wet suit (the last one) and without (next one).

Canon

JoeK

2011-07-18 9:02 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Regular

108

Crystal Coast

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Steve,

Thanks for the blow by blow on the perp tablets. I needed a good laugh and that did the job. I would of love to see that on youtube. I think I will try them on an upcoming ride and I will make sure I have a full water bottle. Also I appreciate your insights on Joe's race reports. I have been debating going sockless on my bike and will now give it a go. I might even try it on my short runs to see how everything feel. As far as varying the pace on runs, how often would you recommend incorporating that into a weekly plan? I am equating that to a speed workout which my token memory cell tells me only to perform once a week. I also have limited running experience coupled with flat feet and a bit of weight, my fastest run to date was a 9 min/mile in a sprint.

Denise,

Hope everything went well. It looks like the run was brutal at 103+ heat index. I trust you are enjoying your recovery. Great Job.

2011-07-19 6:52 AM

in reply to: #3602972

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JK -

My foray into going sockless on the bike was partly to eliminate the need to put wet feet into socks, and partly to just stay cooler, and partly to pave the way to running sockless. Some comination of those three, anyhow. I think that if one has even half-decent cleats, that's a pretty good way to start toughening up the feet. My cleats are from '01 and are pretty cruddy now and never had much inner padding to begin with, so the scope for them is fairly high to abrade my feet - and they don't. If you try it, though, apply BodyGlide to your feet, or dicey parts of the insides of your cleats, just in case. You can also use Vaseline, although this gunks things up more than does BodyGlide.

Emerging from winter when socks up here are necessary, my first handful of sockless runs find me using BodyGlide. It'll go on my inner arches, on the tops and fronts of my toes, and along my heel. This year the transition was seamless (as it were), with not even a hint of a blister. Whew!

And as for "seamless".....I run in Newtons, and they are very minimalistic with not much by way of overlays, and so not much seamery on the inside. Along with just rubbing-induced hot spots and blisters, a big culprit for tripping up sockless feet is seams. But that's kind of hard to judge when searching for running shoes, as not all seams are created equal, and where they are positioned matters.

You're mostly right about speedwork being once a week, but I generally think that applies to serious interval sessions, trackwork, the stuff that makes one often want to die right on the spot. You can get by with a couple of fartlek sessions a week, just because those are entirely under your control. That is, if you decide to pick up the pace some for the next three lightpoles, and you want to back off after the first, you can. Or, just how much you want pick up that pace is up to you. It's really just free-form play (I think fratlek means "speed play" in Swedish), kind of kindergarten scribbling for runners. there may be lines there.....but don't worry too much about staying inside them!

2011-07-19 7:01 AM

in reply to: #3602482

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

CANON -

Welcome back! I still owe you a comment/suggestion about running off the bike, and seeing as how you've returned I will try to do that soon. Gonna stick around for a bit?

You may parenthetically say you're kidding about the difficulty of returning to training after a race, but at least for me it is very true. I think it is for most people, which is why so many of us eschew any downtime. There have been lots of times I knew I needed a good chucnk of downtime, but screeching in the back of my mind are they twins terrors of "it'll-be-hard-to-return!!!!" and "you'll-lose-all-your-fitness!!!!". Both of them are persistent as the day is long, but neither of them speaks much truth. There is a kernel of truth in both, but not enough to worry about to any serious degree. (Hear me say that now......watch me go agaisnt it again and again and again.)

I have lots of thoughts about wetsuits versus not, and am curious as to why the next race will be without. I know why you wore one last time (hyporthermia possibilities come to mind.....), and can only imagine that the next race will be in warm waters where they aren't allowed. There are other reasons, too, but that's the usual one. Where and when is the September race?

jrhesq

2011-07-19 7:40 AM

in reply to: #3435045

New user

Swansea, IL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Ran an easy 3 miles yesterday, then a brick session this morning (8 mile bike followed by 3 mile run). These are essentially the same distances as Sunday's sprint but what a difference going out a little earlier in the day (6 am vs. 8:30 am) and a flatter course makes. I was really discouraged by my run split but now have some confidence back.

lufferly

2011-07-19 7:53 AM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

624

Spring TX

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Congrats to JEFF and JOE! Great race reports, thanks for sharing. Can't wait for DENISE to give us her run down. Hope you all are enjoying a bit of recovery time.

LISA

2011-07-19 8:26 AM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

996

Minnesota

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Never again! Never again! That was so hard! It was so hot! My times were just terrible (7:44). It's discouraging to train so hard for so long and end up with disappointing results. But I'm in a better mood today. At least I finished - a lot of people didn't.

I'm going to write an official race report but here are some highlights:

- I did get a 2nd place age group trophy. There were 3 in my age group but one was a DNF. The 1st place lady beat me by 42 minutes (a lot) but I did beat her by 20 minutes on the run (which tells you how bad my swim/bike times were).

- My last pee before the race was at 6:15 am and I didn't pee again until 7:30 that night so even though I thought I drank enough, maybe I didn't.

- I fell on the bike course. Nothing serious but it looked bad because I had blood running down one leg and one arm. At the next aid station, the medic wanted to clean me up and I said "No. No. I want to cross the finish line bloody - it would look cool". haha

- I feel kind of good about my run. After the bike I thought I might not even finish. It was 91 and humid at the start and the first few miles were bad. Then I stuffed some ice down my back and got renewed energy. I passed quite a few people.

- Craig Alexander was there. He won it last year but took 8th this year.

- Steve - I know you have some issues with the Ironman organization but they certainly know how to put on a race. They hired 60 policemen for traffic control, the bike course was beautifully coned and marked, and they had ice even for the last people on the run.

Denise

I'm now going to catch up on other race reports/postings

AManCalledHawk

2011-07-19 10:02 AM

in reply to: #3603329

Member

Concord

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Yea, I'll be around for a while I have new goals and old friends to meet.

You gave me the comment/suggestion about running off the bike, so you can cross that off your to do list. I didn't specifically use it this last tri because the last loop over the hill already had me in small then big gears. I will use it more in this next one because the ride and run are more flat.

What I'm looking for now are good ride and run workouts to develop strength and speed. I really need to put together a weekly workout that has core building and speed work on the bike and run. Any suggestions on individual workouts in those areas (from anyone) would be greatly appreciated. I really feel like I have room to get faster on the ride and run. The various race reports are both encouraging and challenging - thanks guys and gals!!

After getting faster, by next summer, I want to be ready to move up to Olympic distance, so now it's all about figuring out how to train smarter, not just longer or harder.

Oh yea, I'm preaching this Sabbath, talking about the cross-application between triathlon training and spiritual growth. So meditate/pray that I won't make it all about me and more about how we can get better.

Canon

2011-07-19 10:54 AM

in reply to: #3603471

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

LadyNorth - 2011-07-19 9:26 AM

My times were just terrible (7:44). It's discouraging to train so hard for so long and end up with disappointing results. But I'm in a better mood today. At least I finished - a lot of people didn't.

Denise,

Ready to do some number crunching? Think about this:

1) How many people on the planet are able to do the distance (forget about the time) that you just completed?

2) How many people on the planet in your AG are able to finish the race you just completed?

3) How about many females in your AG?

I don't know the numbers but rest assured your in a pretty ELITE class. Congrat's. You and your family must be really proud!!

2011-07-19 11:47 AM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

996

Minnesota

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Jeff,

Congrats on your race and your great times. I've noticed in races here that the 50-54 age has some really surprisingly speedy racers - sounds the same there.

I can relate to slow transitions. I've had a problem with those and keep saying I'll work on getting better but I never do. As someone (it was probably Steve) said, it's free time.

Your bike is in the same price range as mine. However, my husband is buying me a new bike even though I didn't get 1st place AG. I'll let you know if it helps with speed.

And thanks for the perspective on my race times.

Denise

2011-07-19 12:51 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

996

Minnesota

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Joe,

Congrats on your race! Too bad you don't have splits. Sounds like a race with not many amenities - no splits, no food, no first aid - but I guess that's ok if you know what to expect.

I read your race report. You didn't say much - you said more in your BT post than in your report.

Hills can be tough - really eat into your times - especially on the run.

About the comment at the end of your post - a "true triathlete" is a person who has completed a triathlon. Period!

Good luck with upcoming biathlon.

Denise

2011-07-19 12:54 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

996

Minnesota

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Mandy,

This is probably not a good time to say this, but "YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND". After barely finishing a 1/2, I cannot comprehend what you'll need to do to finish a full Ironman.

Way to go, girl - you'll rock it.

Denise

2011-07-19 1:16 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

996

Minnesota

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

(IMG_1644-new3.jpg)

Attachments
----------------
IMG_1644-new3.jpg (69KB - 5 downloads)

2011-07-19 1:16 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

996

Minnesota

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Sorry that picture is so big It took me 45 minutes to figure out how to load it here. I thought it was going to be smaller.

Edited by LadyNorth 2011-07-19 1:59 PM

jrhesq

2011-07-19 1:58 PM

in reply to: #3604146

New user

Swansea, IL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Denise:

You are truly an inspiration. Not only can I barely conceive of doing what you just accomplished, but I've read many of the other racer's reports from Racine and it sounds like it was a brutal day. I was done by 9:15 am and was tanked. You kept going for another 6 hours in comparable weather. You should walk proud.

2011-07-19 3:54 PM

in reply to: #3603471

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

DENISE -

Very glad to know you're back, and healthy to the point of questioning your sanity. Been there! Done that! And.....we'll see where your head is it once you get through the appropriate post-mortems!

You really did do a fine job on your first (that's not necessarily saying there'll be a second, but that it WAS your first) half-iron, and the run is testimony tho the success of all that training. That's one of the devils in long-distance training, that very seldom do all three disciplines show stellarness. I have had some HIM in which only one of the discpilines has made me feel pleased, so don't feel that the training was lal for naught. At the very least, your next oly or sprint will be that much simpler and likely that much more successful -- which is one of the saints of long-distance training!

As for the big gap between peeing, that happens to me in most half-irons, and for that matter in most lengthy training sessions. There are lessons in that about relative levels of hydration......but I haven't excactly figured them out yet. Odd though, isn't it, and mildly disconcerting. I'm also guessing that the, uh, coloration was fairly radioactive (deep and bright yellow?), and that should tell me/us something, too.

Do we get to see photos of you looking "cool", bloodied and all? I peridodically look at the photos posted here after my crash two years ago, and I guess there is an elemnet of "cool" to it -- although I sure wasn't feeling that at the time. It is to your credit (??) that you were toiugh enough to recognize the personal/physical "badge of honor" of your Racine mishap!

I am soooo ahppy that the people running Racine provided for everyone who raced. They USUALLY do that, but a few times a year there are stories of all sorts of stuff having been exhausted way too early. I always fall into my gut feeling that at those entry fees, there is no excuse for supplies to get totally depleted. ANYHOW, they had their act together for Racine, and that's a big old blessing, eh?

Nice trophy, and I hope you are very proud of it. I have been a DNF 2 or 3 times, and for each I have felt FULLY part of the results. I'm saying that just in case your squirrewl mind gets activated and starts thinking "I was 2/2." Nope, you were 2/3, to be sure!

Craig A. 8th?!? Wow. I don't know the last time he was that "low". But i expect lots of people suffered heavily in the heat, and that really is hugely unpredictable. That is, some days it just annihilates people who normally do well in it. C.A. is one who, with multiple wins in several hot races, can normally excel in heat. But on this past Sunday..........??

I can hardly wait for your report, so get moving, eh? As far as that goes....any hint of DOMS yet? If not, you'll probably avoid them -- WHEW!

I wrote late last week about salt capsules, but i think you may have left before I posted it. Sorry! However, i'm very interested in what you did for electrolyte supplementation, as it sure seemed to have worked on the run!

Keep us posted about anything and everything, okay? (And enjoy eating anything and everything -- at least for the next four or five days!)

2011-07-19 3:58 PM

in reply to: #3603384

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JOE -

Nice physical and - especially! - psychological recovery from the race-run. You executed those two bang-bang sessions really well, and you now have a few more days to refine those skills -- and get some more confidence returned. Voila!