GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 37)

M -

OOPS!
The correct web site is www.aquasphereswim.com. The other one I said will lead to a place dealing with water gardens!! (That's what i get for taking just an educated guess, as opposed to a truly fully-informed decision! )

Steve,

Thanks for the great feedback! It's nice to hear that I'm not right out of my mind (however, to my coworkers I've lost another couple cards. Friends and family don't know what I'm getting myself into.)

Back to the plan discussion...Oly plan still too much for the sprints?

Furthermore on race ideas, I've found two Oly's close to me that could fit my timeline:
Island Lake on 8/22 http://www.elementevents.com/events/27
Autumn Colours on 9/19 http://www.3disciplines.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69&Itemid=110

The 2nd one is perfect timing, but it is a trail run, which isn't exactly what I dream of at night. Need to find out more info on what the trail is like before I decide on it.

Also, as for my running progress, did 42 minutes on Wed covering exactly 3 miles utilizing a 5m walk, 7m jog 3 times, finishing with a 6 minute walk (3.5mph and 5 mph pace). Also, using the hand grip HRM on the treadmill at the end of 7 minutes I would hit 133 - 134 then with 1:45 I'd be down to 112-113. Slight discomfort with 3 strides in the middle 7 minute span. Pain to the point of 10 strokes and this over and then magically it was gone again. 2 days later my knee feels fine. Foam roller is on order and I'm trying to stretch ITB more frequently.

As for cycle computer, so as to try and combine units, I'm looking at getting a Polar S720i or S725x. Just a matter of hitting the right EBay auction or finding the right one for sale. Many reasons I am still looking at HRM's. One key right now is to get a better understanding of my RPE. My ideas on that are to A) I think that what I tell myself is a 8 is closer to a 7 and B) use Polar's calculations and do a cycling 30min TT that I read about somewhere and figure it all out. Maybe even do a run TT eventually to see where I stand.

nm

Edited by Dwayne 2010-01-15 11:04 AM

Not sure if this quite meets your timing but the Detroit Free Press Marathon is scheduled for Sunday Oct 17, 2010. http://www.freepmarathon.com/

I find it interesting that you run over the Ambassador Bridge (Windsor to Detroit) and back through the tunnel. This is also in the nice and safe area of Detroit. (2009 say 8399 people racing, plus all the volunteers, spectators, etc.) And you are very close to Mexican town which has some of the best Mexican food outside of Mexico (verified by Mexican co-workers) for some after race re-fuelling.

Steve,

I sort of disagree with this comment, you want your face to be up a bit. Not out of the water but looking forward. I've been having some discussions with a freind who same competitively (long distance including 10k) into her time at university and this is one thing she really emphasized. (The other being shoulder extension at hand entry and that this should not translate into digging deep into the water.)

It makes sense to me. Your face would be an easier break in the water than the top of your noggin.

I will also be getting some drills from her that I'll share with the group.

SEE?!?!?!?!  This is why I canceled my gym membership over a year ago.  They are just giant petrie dishes (sp?) full of bacteria.  I even made sure to bring wipes and hand sanitizer!  I can't wait until that public pool is open again. 

So, bike lasted about 20 minutes last night.  I could feel it in my chest, so I just stopped.  My desk today is 10-deep in Vitamin Water; I have hot tea and honey, and am eating every 2 hours to keep the energy levels up and hopefully give the body what it needs to kill this little bug.

Feel much better this morning, I think.  Chest is less wheezy than yesterday, and aside from some sinus pressure, I'm not in terrible shape.  Goal to day is to try to keep a low profile at work - low stress, lots of liquids and food, and early to bed tonight.  Build strength today - I have 4 hours in the saddle scheduled tomorrow, and a run on Sunday that I really, really want to get in.  Next week is a recovery week, so I can get fully healthy then I think.

Funny, I'm never, ever this sick this much.  I guess I am either not eating or not sleeping enough as the mileage is building.  After the flu thing, I got the weight back up to about 164 (ate a LOT), but the weight has dipped below 160 this week and the shift to 5:00 am wake-ups for the pool sessions must have the immune system compromised.  I'll need to do a better job of eating more and sleeping more.  Time to start with the food logs.

Thanks.    This might work because my husband goes to Windsor on business trips.   I will check it out.    And safe sounds good.   My son would freak if I said I was running in Detroit. 

STEVE,

Went to Chiro this morning and he did some ART on my tibialis (sp?) posterior and the 'other' side too.   Thinks it is just a combo of increasing running and running on ice and snow.   Said the muscles that were inflammed are stablizing muscles.   I'm supposed to ice, and he gave me an exercise to do to help.    Since I have this little cold I am going to take it easy this weekend and rest up and come back fresh on Monday.   A couple of missed days this early in the game is going to be more beneficial than harmful, to my progress, I'm thinking.

Also went to my podiatrist yesterday and he said the wear pattern on my shoes is normal but I do need new shoes.   Stopped by at Runners Choice and tried on the new model of my current shoe and and I can definitely feel the difference.   Didn't get them today but will soon.  

Off to drink some medicinal tea and have some soup.............

DIANE,

I saw your post to Steve re the clipless pedals, (hope you don't mind my input) and I agree there is a bit of a learning curve, but I don't think your trainer's 'bad' experience with them is the norm.   Myself and several other of my tri friends had no real difficulty adjusting.   Once they tried them there was no going back.   The only hard part is remembering to take your foot out when you come to a stop and after an hour or so of riding and stopping several times you will be amazed at how automatic it is.    They are actually easier to get out of than toe clips.   

Hey Steve,

Hope you're looking forward to a great weekend!

I have some nutrition questions / thoughts for you and would love some feedback.

What am I looking for when I'm "figuring out" my nutrition?  What is my goal?  The reason I ask is that to date, I've not really had any issues to indicate I am doing too much or too little, but it seems to be less than what I'm reading.

For example, last weekend on the 4-hour ride, I had the following:
Promax bar and coffee for breakfast (350 calories)
1 aerofill bottle of EFS - 100 calories
1 water bottle of Gatoraide Endurance - 50 calories
1.5 bottles of standard gatoraide from a convenience store - call it 300ish calories
3 gels (300 calories)
Cliff Bar at the turn-around - 260 calories

Total calories burned on the ride: 2,950
Total consumed:  1,400 roughly or 350 per hour (including breakfast)

On runs, I'm at a long now of 1.5 hours, and typically drink a fuel-belt of EFS (call it 200 calories) and 2 gels for 400 calories total on a run of roughly 800-900. 

So, as the rides get longer and I'm testing my nutrition, is my goal to keep upping the calories per hour and try to feel out when it gets to be too much?  Is there a number I should cap it off at in general for someone my weight (5'10" and 160lbs right now). 

I guess, big picture, how do you systematically go about finding what is right for the IM distance?  I get the concept that on the bike, I'm not just fueling for the bike, but also for the run.  That being the case, in training, how do you know whether you're fueling enough to handle a run that you won't actually do that day?   

Hi diane... I have to agree with Anne on the clipless pedals... when I bought my road bike in 2007 I bought clipless pedals and shoes, having never used them before, and not too many people are more clutzy and uncoordinated then me.  I got my bike at the beginning of March, rode it on the trainer for most of that month and was out on the road after that.  I had no problem adjusting to the pedals, and as Anne said it becomes automatic to unclip.  On the trainer just practice often clipping in and out.   The only clipped in falls I've had on my bike were when I was actually stopped fiddling with something with one foot on the ground and the other clipped in and lost my balance.  Now if I'm stopping to do something (like taking off my jacket or answering my cell phone)  I unclip both feet while I'm stopped.

If I can use clipless pedals anyone can !!

X2

Gotta say, I'm with Steve on this.  Everything I've read and practiced tells me that your face should be straight down in the water.  In fact, when I feel that I am laboring in the water, the first thing I do is reset my head so my face is straight down, and sure enough, I'm gliding again.

As Steve points out, it's not a question of whether the face or the top/back of the head creates more drag.  Both create an incredibly small amount of drag vs. your hips and legs.  If those fall past horizontal, you're just dragging them and creating resistance. 

From www.triathlonsource.com:

Head Position: Most triathletes tend to lift the head when swimming.  As anyone who saw the movie Jerry McGuire knows, the human head weighs 10 pounds.  This much weight several feet in front of the center of buoyancy has a great affect on balance.  Lifting the head only a few inches will cause the legs to drop significantly.  Efficient swimmers carry the head in a neutral position, at the same depth in the water as the lungs.  During workouts, concentrate on looking at the bottom of the pool and not forward in the lane.  Occasionally swim a few lengths alternating several strokes with the head carried high in the water and several strokes with the head positioned lower in the water.  Notice that when you carry the head high the feet drop and you naturally kick harder.  Pay attention to the decreased effort when you correctly keep the head down.

Some other reference links:

http://swimming.about.com/od/swimtechniquehelp/a/head_position.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3871/is_200310/ai_n9308710/

http://triswimcoachonline.com/tri/head-position-in-freestyle-ian-thorpe-gets-it/

SHAUN -

I'm with you on the trail run thoughts, and I try to avoid any tri that has a trail component. A freind of mine runs a nifty little oly near Lake George, and it's agem of a race -- except for the first 0.3-0.5 miles of the run, which is on a trail of sorts. And even though the trail part ain't much, it's enough to make me not wnat to rush out and do the race again. I just figure that trails exponentially increase my chances of of hurting myself, and with my history of lower body injuries, i do not need any outside assistance, thank you very much!

The other drawback to the second race is that it's run by 3 Disciplines, and they get hammered quite often in the forums. i think they lost USAT sanctioning a few years ago, but have since gotten it back. geyond that, the guy who runs 3 Disc. is named Kenny, and he has a reputataion for being quite arrogant -- his way is the only way. Now having said that, some people say it's all just fine, and the races don't have a lot of bells and whistles, but at least they are priced very reasonably. I've never done one of their races, but the impression I have is that they are "throwback" events -- how triathlon was about 15-20 years ago.

I don't know anything about the other race, but I will look into it later.

NIcely done with tehe 42-minute three-miler! That was a good, conservative approach to take, and if you're feeling fine two days later, that could hardly be better. As for the ache in the middle, I don't know how to explain that -- other than the "giving" surface of the 'mill can often cause little things to flare up. I've had loads of 'mill-induced flare-ups over the years, but as with yours, they go aay just about as quickly as they appear.

Along with trying to remember to look into Island Lake, I will also try to remember to look into those two Polar models. If you saw the discussion about 10-14 days ago here, "sax" from my last year's group wrote and said that he thought it was very vakuable to use his HRM at the beginning, and I'm sure he siad he found that it helped him understand his RPE. (I'll ferret that out and see exactly what he said, because I think it supports what you're getting at.)

And when you talk about RPE and the 8 and the 7, I figure you're using the simpler RPE scale, the one that goes from 1-10 (as opposed to the Borg scale, which goes form 6-20!). So when you say that an 8 is closer to a 7, in any event what you're talking about is times in which you are exerting yourself quite a bit, yes?

If you can qualntify that (which is where HR comes in, then you will indeed have a better idea of what your body is expereincing. But also, the TTs you mention will also give you some insights, with the nod in your case going to the bike one -- just because you will be able to push that one harder and for longer.

Steve,

Cool. Thanks. My plan doesn't give distances for runs but rather times. For example, yesterday I was supposed to do a 30-minute run. Same with bike rides. I have no idea how that translates to distance, but I've been doing it at a pace that is challenging but not impossible. I gauge progress by distance covered during that time relative to earlier workouts, but I don't know how to figure out if I'm far enough along to be ready by April. Is there a frame of reference I can refer to for time/pace progress?

Kasia

SHAUN again -

You're right about wanting your face up some, and I wasn't meaning to suggest otherwise; I guess I didn't choose my words all that well!. Mostly I was viewing M as possibly swimming goggleless, face totally out of the water as she sights forward to the end wall.

There is a lot of discussion about where exactly the water line should be relative top one's head, with some people saying the forehead and others saying just above the hairline. Within this discussion are values given to how much head-drag is created in each position, but the consensus seems to be that the head should be in a position so that sighting is slightly forward -- which is what you are saying, I think. In other words, one should not be looking straight beneath them, as that position potentially interrupts the best "flow of the body" - or optimal streamlining - from head to toes.

For me, I'm definitely looking forward a ways....but right now I cannot picture how far. Maybe the bottom of the pool, 6-8 feet in front of me? I'll try to determine that tomorrow!

(Thinking about it some, 6 feet ahead is probably closer to it.)






Edited by stevebradley 2010-01-15 6:18 PM

SHAUN once more -

Yeah, i'll definitely have to "field test" this tomorrow! I make an effort to have only a small part of the crown of my head above the water, and the sighting I do is more a function of range-of-eye-movement, as opposed to purely having my head up enough so thta I can see that far foreward. And I think that my sighting might reperesent more of a sweeping of the eyes, rather than having them clearly up there so my gaze falls perfectly on that spot in front of me. Or something like that??

MARK -

And speaking of field tests in the pool (see just above, to Shaun), I rememberd to check to see how far I glide when I push off the wall.

For me, (1) it's not much, and (2) it's compromised some by almost immeidately going into my stroke. I told you the other day that I try to come off the wall sleek and streamlined ----- but it turns out that's just in my active fantasy life. What really happens, especially when I'm trying to swim moderately fast, is that I push off and almost immediately initiate my body roll to the right, aided by the right arm starting its pull. So, I'm not streamlined hardly at all before I interrupt that to begin my stroke.

I'm into my full stroke at about 7 or 8 feet from the wall, so it really accounts for less than a full stroke. I tested this by just starting almost "flat" from the wall, with just the merest of pathetic push-offs, and within half astroke length I was where I am when I do my full push-off. So for me, the push-off has little effect on my actual, true, bonafide, wall-to-wall spl numbers.

(I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing! )

SHAUN and ANNE -

The Detroit race has a good reputation. I think a guy died during it last year, but that had nothing to do with race organization. This course is suposed to be very cool, especially the bridge part (aside from the fact that it's a long grade going up it! ).

At least a few years ago, after coming back through the tunnel it migrated northward and rambled through some park before heading back into the city proper and finishing inside old Tigers Park. I don't know if the current course has the finish in Comercia (sp?) Park.

---------- FOR POTENTIAL BIKE-BUYERS!!! ------------


The following is adapted from '7 Questions to Ask Yourself Before Buying a Bike", in the latest issue of Triathlete magazine. I will do this by listing the questions and then giving a very brief summary of the answer. HOWEVER, if anyone wnats more details about a particular answer, then just let me know and I will provide them as requested.

1.) WILL THIS BE YOUR ONLY BIKE? If so a road bike is best due to its versatility.

2.) WILL YOU OFTEN RIDE IN A GROUP OR MOSTLY ALONE? If in a group, then definitely a rdie bike! Either a road or a tri bike will be fine if riding alone.

3.) HOW HILLY IS MOST OF YOUR RIDING? If hilly, then a road bike is best -- especially if the descents are technical.

4.) HOW GOOD ARE YOUR BIKE-HANDLING SKILLS? For people whose skills are still developing, then a road bike is best, as they are a more stable machine.

5.) HOW OFTEN WILL YOU RACE? If only a few races a year, then a road bike will suffice. However, the more racing a person does, the more arguments can be made for a tri bike.

6.) HOW COMPETITIVE ARE YOU AT THE RACES? If your results show relatively slow bike splits, then this is more likely a function of your still-developing bike skills, rather than the type of bike you are riding. If one's bike splits are competitive, however, then there is more to be gained by buying a tri bike.

7.) HOW DEVELOPED ARE YOU AS A CYCLIST? It is easier to learn essential skills on a road bike than on a tri bike. But if you have been riding a while and are a decent cyclist, then a tru bike is worth looking into.


Helpful at all? (I hope so, because I got down to #7 in a longer version, and then lost the screen. GRRRRR!)

Again, if anyone wants elaboration on any of the 7 points above, just ask and ye shall receive!

And giving credit where credit is due, the author of the article is Christopher Kautz, the owner and founder of PK Cycling (www.Pkcycling.com).

And seeing as how I lost my first attempt at the above and had to re-do it, I'm going to go off and pout somewhere for a while. Bye for now!

Think we have this backwards.  Steve thought the toe clips would be fine, which is what my bike that is coming has on it now.  My trainer thought the toe clips were very difficult for beginners, much more so than the clipless ones.  It was with the toe clips that she got her scars.  So she laid out a plan as to how I should approach them so I would not end up with similar scars.

To try to clarify.....

What Diane is looking to get is a bike that has a cage-type pedal with a toeclip and a strap. This is entirely different form the type of pedal that is a "clip-in", or "clipless" --- because they have no toeclip. Even though the clipless type has spring-loaded clips that that hold the foot in place via the cleat that snaps in, it does NOT have a toeclip, which is why it is known as clipless.

As I said to Denise last week, think copyright laws. the first type of pedal that used a clip were the toeclip style, therefore they have sole (pun intended) use of the "clip" designation. No toeclip = clipless (or clip-in).

Close to 2 million humanoids struggle with this concept every day, so we are not alone in this confusion. And for every time I have "learned" how this all works......within a few months it has become muddled again in my head. So it's good that you all are keeping me on my toes (clipless as they are ).