Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED (Page 37)

Stan,  Keep the head up and keep looking for the other doc for a second opinion.  One thing that I think might be pretty important though, and you may or may not like to hear it, but you may need to look at surgery as an option.  I have heard similar things that others have told you about surgery sometimes not helping or making things worse but after fighting as long as you have been may leave you with fewer choices.  Hopefully the second opinion leaves with something other than that as a viable option but keep your mind opened.

Then once you are healed you'll make it back.  You seem to have a pretty iron clad determination.  That's a very admirable quality.

__________

Personal stuff:

I did my weigh in last week but didn't post it here but I was down 2 from the original 10.  This would have left me with 3 lbs. to drop in 2 weeks..............And then a carb loading dinner for Laiken before her sectional final, the swim family team dinner that followed and then the super bowl party at our house that Lis cooked enough food for 50 people..............I didn't do to good over the weekend needless to say.  As of today I am still at 8 leaving me with 3 to lose by next week.  Ummmm?  Yeah!  That's not going to happen.  I'll keep on the wagon from here and then continue to try to drop weight until I reach my goal.  But it wil be slowly and that is actually perfectly fine with me.  Race season is a way off, so I have plenty of time.

Allison,  Are planning on doing the Fanny Freezer this weekend?  It would be great to meet you and your husband out there.  You said your husband was pretty fast so I'll be glad he's not in my AG if both of you run.  Brenda, you're only 45 minutes away you could join us there and we could all suffer through a 5k race together.  This race is only $5.  You don't get a T shirt but it is a chip timed race with a gun chip start.

Thanks Dirk.

I always keep my head up no matter the adversity. It's just another obstacle on the way to fulfilling a dream. As far as surgery, that is up to the docs. If it is a chance to help me I will take it. In the mean time I will continue my fight to get healed, keep my head on straight, and stay here and absorb any and all info I can. Plus, I have a great support system from my family, you all here, and my very tolerant wife. No one could ask for more.

Stan - that is a great attitude. I hope you are not in a lot of pain. I've been on oral steroids a few times over the last year and I know what you mean. I can't sleep when I'm taking them.

Keep us posted.

Dirk, that is good advice.  I used to live across the street from a lake (now my ex lives there) so I still have access to it for swimming.  My tri is May 26, so it'll be some cool water, but that's good too so I can get used to my wetsuit.

Stan, I really admire your determination and positive attitude.  I'm partly jealous too.  This is a very trying situation for you and I commend you for going after it with a level head even though it's very difficult.  I wish I could do more.  Definitely keep looking out for a good back ortho.  The one you went to isn't enough IMO.  They shouldn't just throw their hands in the air.  You're not paying them to be a quitter.  Maybe post on the main forum, or in the california page asking for a Lake Tahoe area ortho??

Vero, I have found that I can't do any cardio if I haven't eaten in 3 hours.  I get horrible abdominal pains, much like gas but more burning inside.  I had to get off the trainer a couple weeks ago and eat a couple dinner rolls, then I was fine.  I try to eat about and hour to 1.5 hours before I work out, and I seem to be fine.

How different we all are - I do most of my workouts fueled by nothing except the huge amount of coffee I consume every morning!

Stan - Hang in there buddy. My sister has similar back issues and what you're going through sounds a lot like what she's going through. I have a huge amount of respect for you both. I hope the new doctor comes in with some fresh ideas. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes on the problem negates whether he's a "better" or "worse" doctor.

Great to hear about all the swimming and stuff. I'm envious of you all having such an easy time. I have bad and good moments, although more bad than good right now. I determined my shoulder was a pinched nerve, so I rested it for a week and it got worse. I jumped back in the pool today and actually came out with my shoulder feeling better. I don't understand this issue at all.

Biked another 30 minutes today as well. I pushed harder than I usually do because I was short of time but felt a little unfulfilled at the end.

Weigh in for the week - 9 today, down from 11 last week and 13 the week before. Feeling pretty good about the weight thing. If I ate better, snacked less and had a couple less beers I'd be in even better shape!

My Wednesday weigh in - things are still going well for me nutritionally.  I'm down 2 from last week - 4 from original weigh in (11), so I'm at 7 this week.

I had a great workout week last week with a number of doubles, but I think my ambition got ahead of my fitness, and I did an aggressive hill workout that strained my Achilles badly.  I tried to run last night to no avail.  Biking is okay in smaller doses and swimming doesn't cause any pain, so those are my focus this week.  I'm anxious to heal and get back to the plan.

Curtis

Ok - took Dirk's advice. 6 x 4 min repeats on the trainer. I think he's trying to kill me.....

I actually wore my HR monitor. My max got up into the 170's during the intervals. My legs feel a little like jello right now.

I'm just happy to be well enough to work hard again!

I purposely "forgot" to post my Wednesday weigh-in because I ate a ton for dinner last night and my weight was no different than last week.  I thought I might post my weight for tomorrow morning instead, but I ate another abnormally large dinner with dessert.  So, we'll just say that I am still at 7.2 lbs (2.2 lbs to go).  I don't think I will make it by next week, but I should be close.  I am so anxious to be at pre-pregnancy weight again.

Stan, I am so sorry for all of your back problems.  I'm glad that you have found such great support with our group, and we will all continue to support you through this.  You are incredibly strong and such an inspiration for continuing to chase your dream in spite of all you have dealt with.  Only you can decide what is right for you, but I thought I would throw in my 2 cents.  I am not an orthopedic doctor, but as an orthodontist I do have some experience in taking care of patients with joint problems.  Although the two specialties are vastly different, I am sure they share some commonalities as well.  When we work with people who are having these kinds of problems, we always start with conservative, reversible treatment.  If these measures are not working, we can always turn to something more aggressive.  Surgery is a last resort option though- surgery can sometimes help but sometimes it does not make the situation any better and for some people it even gets worse.  Furthermore, each time you go through surgery, the chance for a good outcome is decreased due to additional scar tissue and internal trauma.  I know that you have gone through a lot and tried many different options, but I wouldn't jump into surgery unless you have exhausted all of your other options first and your doctor feels like you would be an excellent surgical candidate.  I really hope that you find something that works for you. 

Curtis, I hope your achilles heals up too.  And Dina, how is your finger doing?

Dirk, I am planning on doing the Fanny Freezer Saturday and look forward to meeting you.  My husband will not be running because they do not allow jogging strollers in this race.  He plans to come cheer me on if the weather is cooperative and if we can work around the kids' naptime.  Otherwise, he will stay at home with them.  He is pretty fast without much training at all.  It makes me so mad... mostly because I am just jealous, but also because I know that if he tried at all he could be so good.

I have been sticking to the slow runs and building mileage gradually.  My legs always seem to be fine, no matter how much speed or distance I do.  I try to push myself on the bike, but even short rides seem to be hard on my legs.  I don't feel like my heart rate is the limiting factor- my legs just get so fatigued!  The swim seems to be similar- I feel like my arms get tired way before anything else.  I'm hoping that with putting more time into these disciplines that this will improve.     

I am intrigued by all of the discussion on nutrition lately.  I know that I have to figure out something that works for me if I am going to work on my endurance.  Right now, I usually work out on a completely empty stomach, even when I work out during my lunch break (no breakfast beforehand).  Otherwise, I seem to have crazy stomach issues.  It seems to be fine for my 1 hour sessions, but I probably need to start trying out other options for the future.  John, I have no idea how you make it with coffee.  That definitely does not agree with me!  I am open to other suggestions though.  What works for the rest of you? 

Nutrition is obviously very important to how each of us handle the workload we demand of our bodies.  Many can handle larger amounts of work with fewer calories taken in at different times do to our personal biological makeup.  That said, the way each of us eat everyday will have an impact on every other WO due to carb variations, protein variation, existing fatigue, work load, intesity and on and on.  Finding a good mixture of these items can prove pretty frustrating if you are an impatient person (ME!!!).

Those of you that seem to be having GI issues, it could be that you need to work out some other nutritional concepts.  Do you eat a lot of fiberous foods?  Try taking in different types of carbs that you are not used to.

John, I would say if you can fuel with just coffee most of the time you haven't quite hit the place where your metabolism catches up with your specific workout at the time.  Many, many times I have nearly crashed because I haven't had enough calories for certain workouts.  Most of these are long runs of 15-22 miles or long bikes of 50-65 miles.  If you stick around the sport long enough you'll find yourself in a nutritional deficit.  When that happens you'll know you've hit it because you'll want to quit immediately.  As you lengthen your WO's try to have food with you on the bike and on long runs too.  But the foods will be of very different substance for each of those type of WO's.  Your will be able to take a more solid type of food on the bike but the run will need to be less solid, like gels or chews, etc.

"The man" is calling. time for work.

For the bike workouts, you're going to have to just push through the fatigue.  What I would do is make sure you're on that bike 3 times a week at least for two weeks straight.  I guarantee that after the second week you will feel much better about it.  I will tell you right up front that the first two weeks, it's gonna suck.  Big time.  You'll probably be really annoyed and discouraged, but HAVE FAITH.  You can do it!  I have had to do this on a few occassions.  You tell your legs that your head is in it and you need them to fullfill their end of the bargain. :-)  I dunno...works for me.

If you have GI issues or any sort of stomach issues while using nutrition during longer exercises, it's going to be a serious trial and error type of thing.  There are a couple things that could be making your stomach upset.  Sugar, protein, salt, all could be factors.  Unfortunately they are all found in long distance formulas in some combination.  I personally use infinit nutrition.  So far it has worked pretty well for me, although during my HIM my stomach was upset with me around mile 7 of the run.  What have you tried so far?

I'm sorry to hear that!  I understand that the legal system is in place for a reason, but if you are an agreeable person and you are willing to pay them back, they should be a little forgiving.  Sometimes a little more love would go a long way in America.  Good luck and do your best to put this behind you as soon as you can.

Those are some of the hardest intervals we do!  Dirk definitely had it in for you.  Awesome job getting through them.

Rest that thing and get it right.  Achilles issues have a way of hanging on.

This is such a personal thing.  Some very strong racers on this site train and race on next to nothing.  Ask Bryan what he uses sometime - it doesn't seem possible to work like he does on what he eats while training. 

Anything under and hour or an hour 15 minutes, I don't really worry and just use water.  For long workouts, I do best eating something fairly substantial 2-3 hours before, but it's usually something fairly easily digested and low fiber.  During the workout I like to take a little something every 20 minutes or so.  I really tolerate anything, so I'm bad about asking what works.  I'll eat bananas, fig newtons, bagels, gels, home made drink mixes (maltodextrin and such) or whatever I feel like.  So I suggest experimenting a little and see what you can tolerate, or even how much you need.

What's wrong with people?  It would really go a long way if everyone would just use some common sense.  I know that if a landlord is getting rent, judges usually won't ask the previous renter to make the payments since the landlord is getting the money anyway, but it doesn't always fly that way.  Good luck.

Allison,  I love spinning class.  Its too cold to bike outside right now, and I find the trainer/stationary bike mind-numbingly boring.  My gym even has a 2-hour spinning class on Sunday afternoons.  The beauty of spinning is that you can adjust the resistance so if you want to focus on building muscles you can increase, or if you just want to spin like mad and burn calories you can decrease. 

This might be a good way to help you get past the initial leg fatigue.  I work really hard in class while thinking about how much it will help me when I can finally get on my bike.

If your arms are getting really tired swimming, I would guess that your form could use some work.  Speaking from my own experience, once I started rotating my hips and shoulders, and fixed the entry angle of my hand into the water, all of a sudden it took tons of strain off my arms.  If you are using your arms to pull yourself through the water, like I was doing a couple weeks ago, you won't last long.  Check out the swimsmooth website and see if it helps you as much as it did me.

Regarding eating, I've been messing around a lot to find what works.  Yesterday I had pizza before a 4.5 mile run...it turns out this was not the best idea.  My energy was good, but it was too acidic to be bouncing around in my stomach.

I like to have a greek yogurt, or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich before I work out.  My other standby is ramen noodles with a can of tuna mixed in, and sometimes a little cheddar cheese.  This is a little fatty from the ramen, but its a great carb and protein load, and it sits easy in my stomach for a long workout.  I try to finish eating about 1 hour before I am going to start my workout.  Any less time than that and I get too gassy. 

I have been through all of this.  I spent the entire decade of my 30s more or less incapacitated by my back.  I was training in martial arts, teaching kickboxing and thinking about a 'career' as a kickboxer.  But the back never let me train hard and long enough.  I couldn't play with my kids, I couldn't do yard work, I could barely make it to the end of the work day, bathed in sweat from the pain. 

My Orthopedic surgeon explained to me that if the pain is localized to the back and not causing pain/numbness in the extremities that it's not a surgical candidate.  Because in those cases the 3 year prognosis is the same with and without surgery.  He did say that over time, as I aged, the disc would shrink and that would back it off from the nerves that were being touched.  He said the best thing to do would be to keep exercising and just get the meds and get back to activity ASAP each time I had an episode.

Once I came to the realization that the disc doesn't heal and doesn't get worse with continued activity I knew I was free to ignore the pain stubbornly.  Eventually I began to take pride in my ability to ignore the pain fairly well and keep going.  I even learned, much to my pleasant surprise, that when I hurt the back that if I went for a walk immediately--1-2 miles, that I was over 50% better the following day and could avoid being bedridden for a few days.

By the time I was finishing my 30s, I was so tired of the continual pain that I was going to force the issue and have the surgery that I thought would bring me relief.  So I began to lift VERY heavy weights.  I began doing squats, shrugs, loaded calf raises.  I was going to blow that disc up!  I eventually worked up to doing squats with 500lbs, same for calf raises, 300+lbs with shrugs.

And my back got better.

I'm not making any recommendation to you with that story.  Just explaining why your ortho may not be moving toward surgery and why it seems he's just throwing drugs at it.  And also explaining that it's not a problem you can avoid, it's one you have to walk through.  And that physical therapy can be very, very beneficial.

Allison, I want to echo Jonathan.  You need to realize that your leg fatigue is just your body's way of saying that you are demanding too much of them!  And that's exactly what training IS!  You demand too much of them and they adapt.  Just take that fatigue as a really great sign of things to come.

Just an example...I don't even think about it anymore but this morning I could barely stand as I showered and made my way to work.  My morning workouts, at least Tues/Thurs are so rigorous that they are harder than a race day sometimes.  2.5 hours of Z3-Z4.  But it's a feeling you learn to like....eventually.

I already fessed up about yesterday's weigh in, but today I made my weight.  5lbs! (0 to lose!)...except it's not real or permanent yet.  It was just a light food day yesterday.

I only had a couple handfuls of nuts and 3 scoops of whey powder all day.

AM: 1mile swim, 6 mile run

Noon: squats and deadlifts

PM: 4.5 mile run

THEN my first food of the day...a healthy, sensible dinner.  Might have been only 1000 calories for the day.

The interesting thing is that I never felt fatigued, weak, depleted. 

Today was a different story though.  legs felt flat.  My 5 mile run felt like 10 to my legs.  It was also harder to push big resistance on the bike.  But I succeeded in averaging 145bpm for the entire 90 minute bike ride which is quite respectable.

So now it's time to replenish some calories.

Just a thought (am I'm not sure what the reaction will be here) - Have you tried alternative therapies like acupuncture?

Jeff's story reminded me of my own - I mentioned I was a pretty serious horse rider and when I was about 12 I got flipped off a horse into a solid fence from about 20 miles per hour and injured my right shoulder (full on flip in the air, I wish someone had taken a video). No idea why my collar bone wasn't broken, but the only lasting effect of the injury was that every year through my teens and early twenties I would have periods when my shoulder would hurt unbearably to the point where I couldn't pick my arm up. I tried a couple of things first, but eventually went and had acupuncture done and I've (seriously) never had a problem with it since. My Dad had a similar experience, although it took two treatments for him.

I'm not sure I believe in all the Chi and energy flow and things, but you can't deny results. We frequently use it on the horses and they carry themselves visibly differently after they've had a treatment.

Just a thought.

John