Colin Cook's Mentor Group - CLOSED (Page 4)

Hi Collin and Chad,

Allow me to jump in with a follow-up question (or more).   You mentioned shoes and pedals . . . the bike I currently have has just your standard pedals (not clip).  How critical is that?  I've read several articles on how much it helps with transferring more energy to the tires which means less effort, but is it worth the money?  Perhaps I should explain that I got my brother to find a bike for me, so I have $0 in it.  Oh wait, I spent $65 for 2 new tires (including install).  It's a REALLY old road bike (Spalding, maybe, with "friction type shifters" - I think that's how my brother described them), but at least the price was right.  So, should I spend the money on new pedals and shoes or just save my money for a newer (still used) bike later down the road?

And . . . what about swimming equipment?  I know I'll need googles and a suit, but do you need a swim cap for practicing?  Anything else?  And where can I find a good swimsuit for practicing?  It seems like everyone I look at online has a little disclaimer about it not being recommended for daily use in a swimming pool.

Anyone?

As always, I appreciate the help.
--Russ

*with my limited experience...*

As for your question of if it's critical and worth the money... I guess it depends on how much importance you place on your bike time, overall time, and/or standings among race participants.

If you are absolutely sure triathlons are something you will be continuing and you do care enough about your times, I would say buy the pedals and shoes-- but make sure they are the ones of quality of course.  Everything I've read seems to say these things last awhile.  If you're going to be at the point of making a new (used) bike purchase in the future, I feel as time goes on you will also feel inclined to buy the pedals and shoes... so why not now?

I actually have clipless pedals and cycling shoes myself... I bought them a couple years ago and have hardly touched them.  I bought them because I thought I would use them for cycle touring.  If I'm going the long distances, I might as well be efficient, I thought.   Well clearly I knew nothing- people do not tour long distances with proper cycling shoes!!  But anyway my train of thought when I bought them was that I could use them for triathlons as well (because I had always intended on doing them!)  Of course now tri shoes would be nice, but cycling shoes are what I've got.  One reason I've hardly touched them is because I tried using them once or twice, never got the hang of them, and just let them be.  Now I'm glad I bought them- one less investment I have to make now!  Only thing is, I'm going to have to try learning to ride with them!  Might need a tutorial on that later...

Colin
I was doing the 20 week program from beginner triathlete with 2x balance in each sport, all that the doc said was to ease back into it like 1 mile run with .25 walk or 1.5 mile run with .50 walk just continue to build up on that pattern, he said I was welcome to push hard on the bike, I did a 36.65 bike, 2 mile run to the pool,swam 1 mile, then 2 mile run back this past weekend... Overall felt good knee held up well I also do dynamic workout along with icing during the week...if you look back at my training log you can see where I picked back up swimming and biking, must of the run was on elliptical... Thanks

"If you can't win, make the fellow ahead of you break the record"- Unknown

Hey Gang,

Being a Newbie, I am not sure how much help I can be on the bike issue but, moneywise buying used IS the way to go if you are looking to save money.  I was shocked at how much bike cost now a days!  In my case, I had two old bikes that had not been used in 10 plus years sitting in my garage.  One is a 1978 Schwinn Letour (Classic 10 Speed) the other is a 1991 Schwinn CrissCross Hybrid.  Although both have been garage kept they both need a lot of TLC.  I chose the Hybrid because it seemed in better shape and it has 21 speeds.  Here are my conclusions of my decision so far....

I should have went with fixin up the old 10 speed. 

The Hybrid has straight handlebars and with what little riding I have done, eventhough I purchased ergo hand pads, I still get a numbness in my hands.  The 10 Speed has th classic loop handlebars allowing for moving the hands around in various positions to avoid the numbing.

21 Speeds is overkill.  I find I typically only use about 5 of them.

Now, as far as pedals.  I did replace the plastic pedals with some alloy sealed bearing pedals.  I chose to go with toe straps vs clips.  Why?  Primarily cost but, having read through several of the posts from folks on this site, it appeared to me that the clips, while cool, would not be beneficial to me at this stage of my Triathlon career.  While they may be all that and a bag of chips for increasing output to shave off precious seconds and save energy, currently I just want to finish a race.  Once I get up to the olympic and higher levels of Tri I could see where that kind of pedal may prove benefitial.  Right now, I get plenty of "up pull" from the straps and I do not have to worry about falling over and not being able to get my foot off the pedal.  I am too old for the random spills!  LOL

On shifters, the 10 speed has friction where the hybrid does not.  Now, I just had the shifters replaced on the hybrid and while I understand the cables are new and need to be taken back in for adjustment, the friction style do have the ability to be adjusted on the fly to prevent chain rubbing.  So until, I get the new ones dialed in, I am still a fan of friction style. 


ON SWIMMING -

I have had no formal swim training.  I am anxious as all get out in regards to learning how to breath and swim at the same time but, I believe I have found something that will significantly help anyone at my level of skill.  I purchased a Finis Front Mounted Snorkel! The difference in my ability to train comfortably has been HUGE!  I am currently working on stroke mechanics and endurance without worrying about choking!  LOL  The cheapest I found it was $30 at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/FINIS-Finis-Swimmers-Snorkel/dp/B003BLQ5PY  So far the best buy, I have made in all the training gear so far!  Here is the video to see it in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP0nrX6pYPc  while it may not look cool wearing them,  it has to look better than the random flailing I was doing before! LOL

I also got some  Aqua sphere googles  from Dick's on sale for $14.  They are the step below top of the line but, I have no complaints with them.

Also, Colins video is very good!  Prior to seeing Colin's, I came across this one that I found beneficial, for me anyway, and the guy in it cracks me up!  LOL  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2n_AceCr-c


I hope that helps or if someone sees the error of my logic please enlighten me as I am new to this stuff and any advice I offer may be less than accurate.

Timmy  (Tim2) 

Edited by ET1SW47 2010-04-20 11:16 AM

Haha, that guy in the video was funny.  Good info, too.  Thanks for sharing.  I know I'm one of those swimmers that's plowing a big wake in front of my noggin.

Colin:  I do have a question.
I've been trying to get into Sprint shape for so long that my first actual race has really snuck up on me.  It's happening in a month!  My goal is just to finish.  I don't foresee any problem with the swim or bike.  (Though I do need to practice some transitions!)  It's the run that's still hard on me.  Running a 5K is still about my limit.  (Keep in mind that when I decided to board this crazy, tri train that I couldn't jog a mile.)  Anywho, enough setup.  Here's my question.  How should I treat the week before my race?  The race being a Sprint, I don't have much to pull back from, but finishing the run is still going to be challenging for me.  What are your thoughts?
Thanks!!!
Skip...

I agree, a warm up is really important, since you'll most likely be going all out. I typically do about the same thing. A warm up jog so I can get my blood flowing to my muscles. Then after a good amount of stretching, I do another warm up jog, and like Colin said, this time incorporate some reserved sprints, nothing to get you really winded. 

Other than that, it's a pretty simple process, just go run!

Andrew

In order to keep it affordable, I'd recommend used. Craigslist is usually the best, since it's local and allows you to test ride and all, as opposed to ebay. I'm not a guru, but I've always felt when trying to keep prices low, I'd rather have better components than frame, but that's just me.

Good luck in your search!

Andrew

Russ,
 I would say at least get toe clips, like these, for your current bike. The ability to have a circular pedal stroke is a huge improvement over just being able to push down. You'll definitely notice the difference right away. Since it sounds like a pretty old bike, I would probably just spend the little bit on the toe clips, and wait till purchasing a newer bike and then probably upgrading to clipless pedals; as Colin said, it can get quite pricey.

Andrew

Colin,
Thanks for the encouragement.  Since I never really considered myself an "athlete," this new mindset will take some getting used to.  Silly as it sounds, I spent a whole day starting sentences with "As a triathlete, I...," even if the sentence ended "...think we should see the 6:30 movie."  Sure, it annoyed my family after a while, but it worked. 

"What type of bike do you have?  Has the bike been fit for you?  Do you feel comfortable while riding?"
I have a hybrid bike of some kind that a friend of mine who moved away gave me.  It has not been fit for me, though I feel fairly comfortable while riding.  

I put my last week or so worth of workouts into the BT training log, so if you click on my user name in the forum, you can look at my logs. 

I do not have a heart rate monitor - I'm not sure it would be useful for me.  I love the idea of training zones, but when I run at a nice easy pace that I can maintain for several miles, my heart rate is near 90% of what is generally considered the maximum heart rate for my age.  It has always been like this so I use a modified RPE (1 to 10 instead of 6 to 20).  I can add that to my logs if it is helpful.  If you have any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them.  My professors always just said, "Well, everyone is different."  

Anyway, that's enough for now!  Thanks!
 

x2.  The short answer is yes, the shoes and pedals will help make you faster without question and there is minimal to no lost energy when your foot is clipped into the pedal.  However, they are a little tricky to get used and do add some risk while riding.  I remember taking a spill on my first ride because I simply forgot I needed to clip out.  Nonetheless, they really don't take long to get used to.

Another thing to consider is you can also use any pedals + shoes purchased with a new bike if you were to upgrade.  If you are going to spend a lot of time of your bike, I would definitely recommend them.

Good question Skip.

First off, I strongly recommend you practice your transitions.  I'll elaborate on this later.

As for the week before your race, you definitely want to "taper."  The amount of tapering require really depends on the athlete in the discipline.  Running requires a longer taper than biking and swimming.  However, to be honest, I'm not really sure what the recommended taper is for a sprint tri.  I just took a look at the BT Sprint training programs and it looks like they have a couple runs scheduled.  I think we should consider a 15-20 minute run a week before the race.  Another run of 15 minutes mid way through the week and then a 10-15 walk 2 days before the race.

What have other people done for tapering the week before a race?

Hey Sarah,

Thanks for adding your logs.  However, it looks like you have setup so that only friends can view them so can I be your friend? 

That is very interesting about your heart rate.  Yes, everybody is different, but I'm very surprised by that.  Thanks for the info on the bike as well.  As long as you're comfortable, improvement on the bike should come with putting some time in on the saddle. 

Looking forward to checking out your logs.

Hey Colin,

I currently have been riding my bike in my subdivision.  A complete "Loop" is 3.5 miles. The lay out involves  steep hill up with 3 cul de sacs as you increase elevation.  The section at the top has some some sloping cul de sacs but, not nearly as steep as getting to this top section.  As I come out of this section, I come down the steep side and finish it off with a relatively level 3/4 mile section leading back where I start. 

I like the subdivision because I do not have to worry about traffic too much however, my question is.... Should I be starting with flat rides o will the hill climbs I am doing help me more.  Once I get more comfortable with the riding, and I seem to be gaining ground each time I go, my plan is to alternate climbing the "steep" sides as one has the 3 cud sacs to branch off of.

Sure is wordy to just ask if it is better to train flat or hilly?  LOL 

Timmy!





Edited by ET1SW47 2010-04-20 8:53 PM

Hi Chad and Everyone,

Ok, so I've got your videos up on YouTube.  Thank you very much allowing me to put your videos on there.  I think everyone in the group will be able to benefit from your videos.  I spent a while trying to combine the videos, but eventually gave.  As a result, we'll dissect each video, one by one:

Video 1

The first thing to look at with the video is how deep your legs are in the water.  In Chad's email to me he did mention he needed to work on his legs and he is correct.  I've worked with a lot of triathletes that for some reason do a lot of scissor kicking.  As you can see from the initial video I posted, you want to keep your legs in tight and use the flutter kick.  This reduces drag and will be most efficient.  The good news is the legs being so deep in the water should improve with a wetsuit.  Chad, do you have or are you planning to get a wetsuit?  The buoyancy the wetsuit creates would really help you with this issue.  As for eliminating the scissor kick, I have my swimmers swim with elastic bands (the ones that you often see at rehab facilities) around their legs.  This really forces you to keep your legs in tight.

Video 2   

With this video, we'll focus on your upper body/mid section.  Overall, not too bad.  However, I'd like to see you reduce your stroke count.  You can do so by waiting to start the next stroke until your hand finishing a stroke is nearly caught back up to the arm extended out in the streamline position.  Your reach looks pretty good.  If possible, I would recommend you try to hold your reach a bit longer to help decrease your stroke count.  Are you familiar with the catchup drill?  This is a great drill and should really help you with this.

Your hip rotation looks pretty good.  However, your rotation is a little better to your left (while you're taking a breath), which is very common.  If you work to extend your left arm a little more during your non breathing stroke, this should help.

Video 3

We'll focus on your pull in the video.  Overall, it looks very good.  Your elbow is slightly bent and you do appear to be power from your lats (your power should be generated mainly from your lats and not your shoulders/tri's).  However, once again if you hold your reach a little longer, you should be able to generate more power.

For some reason, I can't get the 4th video to upload.  Nonetheless, I think this should be more than enough for you to get started on.  With that said, I strongly recommend to everyone that they work on thing at a time.  Trying to work on more than one thing at once over complicates things...baby steps.  So for you Chad, I would start by working on your reach and reducing your stroke count.  You should greatly benefit from the catchup drill.

Thoughts/comments from others?

 

I really need to get a video of myself posted to you! 

Again, I have to stress to those of you like myself that front mounted snorkle will help IMMEDIATELY with working on your strokes, rolling, gliding, reaching, all that stuff is so much easier and falls right into place when you don't have to worry about getting air.  Now, my disclaimer is that my theory is that once I become aclimated to swimming correctly, learning how to breath on the side will be a much smoother transition. 

Colin?

Timmy!

Thanks Colin, this eval really helps.  I got this video done a few weeks ago when I just started swimming again so I've already got my kicking back into something resembling decent form.  I've noticed how I get a lot more rotation when I come back down from breathing so I'll have to work on that. The catch up drill was something I've seen and started to incorporate into my workouts. Its been helpful but I still have a ways to go.  I will certainly continue to work on extending my stroke, but in my video you'll also notice I also breath every other stroke on my left.  I feel like this is too much and I think it's because I breath out too fast so I have to come up for more air faster than I should.  Anyone have any guidance on that?
Thanks!

Wow that's great.  That really gives me motivation to get my own video posted, would definitely love personal feedback!  I'll try a wee bit harder to get myself filmed.

And sorry, I'm not really understanding... what is the purpose/focus/emphasis of the catch-up drill?  To work on reaching? ...the video mentions hip rotation...?  I guess you say decrease stroke count, but in what way does it help with that?  What's the part that helps to decrease?  Is that the reaching part?  eh, I feel silly for not understanding...

All,

What a great forum. I spend more time reading and probably not enough typing. Ok, quick update....

Managed to manipulate the work schedule to make it to the pool yesterday and spent some time working on balance in the water (trying to work the TI drills). Pool was close to closing and I climbed out when the lifeguard came over to chat and I mentioned that I was trying to learn freestyle for a Tri. He offered to help and told me to jump back in and started working me through the basics. Maybe 15-20 minutes later I had swimmed my first (EVER) laps of freestyle! I'm sure it was ugly, but I didn't feel like I was going to drown and didn't have to lift my head to breath; a vast improvement over my last attempts. I think the balance drills really helped and Charlie's (lifeguard) recommendations and encouragement was great too.

Couple of questions:
1) Planning on getting a bike fitting this weekend and am considering putting aerobars on it, but I don't want to upset the handing (bike is "quick" enough as is). General forum logic seems to be saying that there are some shorter clip-on bars (jammers, etc) that will work without in both road and aero setups. Any thoughts or recommendations?

2) I travel a lot and found out today that I'm changing jobs and may be traveling even more. The place I stay has access to a gym with a 25y pool, so that will be good. However, I'm usually not going to able to haul my bike with me. So, I might have to do time on a stationary bike when I'm on the road. Now, I know that it's certainly not the same as putting in real miles out in the wind (pretty bad this past weekend). Any reasonable conversion factor or just ride for time/intensity?

No training plan setup yet, but am trying to put one together. However, getting in this group and putting a race on the calendar has certainly upped the motivation. Guys are work are upping the ante too. We start every day by see what everyone else did for training the previous evening. They want to do a Sprint with an OWS for our first race in June. I need to see how this swimming thing works out first though. June might be too soon for that, but I'll work hard and we'll see.

Take Care,
Mark

Hi Timmy,

LOL, I appreciate the detailed description of what your doing and your question.  It much easier for me to provide an answer when there's too much info than not enough.    But when you really coming down to it, you're question is essentially train on the flats or hilly. 

My initial reaction to your question would be to train in similar situations to what you will see on race day.  However, I'm a big believe in riding hills (or maybe its because its very difficult for me to get a ride in without some pretty good hills in my area ).  Race directors typically attempt to make race courses as flat as possible so you certainly have to be comfortable on the flats.  However, you are going to have to push yourself harder on hills and you will increase your strength/power by riding hills.  I don't see any reason not to ride on hills because you're relatively new to riding.  If you were to just ride on the flats, its not going to make it that much harder when you start adding hills into your ride. 

I do really like that you are riding in a relatively quiet area with minimal traffic.  Let's not forget that riding on the roads can be very dangerous so you need to be confident with your riding.  This should be a great way for you to increase your comfort and confidence on the bike.  Once you're feeling good with that, you can start heading out where there is more traffic.

Great stuff Chad.  I'm glad to hear you feel like you've already made some improvements.  If you want to send me some videos in a few weeks, go for it.

As for your breathing question.  I'm a firm believer in breathing when you need to and making sure you're breathing is very comfortable.  I breath every other breath right now during my races.  There's no question that reducing the number of breaths you take will make you faster, but once it again, you must be comfortable with it.  I do some training breathing every third stroke and even every fourth.  However, when it comes down to it on race day, I do what feels comfortable for me and that's breathing every other stroke.  You can't be totally out of breath and running low on oxygen when you're leaving the water in your tri; you'll pay for it later on.

So do what feels comfortable.  If you can get up to breathing every third or fourth stroke, great!  If not, I don't consider it a problem at all.

Hey Samantha,

That's a good question and there's certainly no need to apologize.  The main reason I have people do the catchup drill is to practice fully extending their arms and slow down their stroke count.  Lots of new swimmers tend to start their next stroke far too early.  You see how the swimmer in this video (this the one I linked to initially the other day) doesn't start his pull until his other arm is nearly back is very nearly back in the water?  This drill will make you a lot more comfortable doing so and it forces you to wait even longer to initiate the next stroke.  Secondarily, this drill will help you with your hip rotation as well because it forces you to extend your arms.

Does that help?

Glad your benefiting from the forum Mark!

First off, that is terrific news about your last swim!  Congratulations!  That is a very big milestone and I think you'll find you're going to make some pretty drastic improvements relatively quickly from there.

As for your questions:

1.  That's great that you're going to get a bike fitting.  If its done properly, you should see some great improvements in comfort and speed while on the bike.  But as for the aero bars, I would recommend that if want to beat your buddies from work, you get them.  They put you in a much more aerodynamic position.  However, if you really feel you're fast enough already, they certainly are not necessary.  But since your getting your bike fit this weekend, I'd get the aero bars now as opposed to later so they can incorporate that into the fitting.  As for what size aero bars to get, it really depends and it depends on your bike a little.  Are you planning to buy them at the shop that is doing the fitting?  If so, I would ask them for their input on this. 

2.  I'm not sure on this one.  I think the "conversion" may really vary from stationary bike to bike.  However, as you mention, I would recommend just focusing on time and intensity.  Obviously this isn't exactly like being out on your bike, but still should be adequate.

Great stuff and I'm glad the group and your work friends are helping to motivate you.  How long is the swim at that sprint tri?  At this point, I want to say you're be ready by then if you stick to your training, but it may be a little soon.  One thing to consider is you don't have to swim freestyle the entire swim.  Lots of people do breast stroke and side stroke the whole time or when they're tired so keep that in mind as well.

As for the training program, let me know if you'd like any help with that.  Feel free to whip something up and I'll take a look at it.  Also, have you considered getting a BT plan?  They're very inexpensive and they get the job done.

Keep it up Mark!