Learn How to Swim Training Group (Page 4)

I will give it a try tomorrow.  Now I only have to figure out how to moon walk

Hi Kelli!

I am glad to have some new folks on this forum....it was looking like I was the only one struggling for the last 10 days or so. I am using the learn to swim plan referenced on the first page of this thread and it is working out great so far. Just finished week 2 and the distances are just right. I too am trying to improve my crawl/freestyle so I use less breaststroke in races.  Zoomers are fins for your feet. I think they are shorter than a lot of swim fins but I'm not certain of that.   I tend to not use a lot of equipment but do use a kickboard. I also don't know how to Moonwalk....hmmmm

I also do some kick sets on my back with my arms extended overhead and hands together. It breaks up the monotony and lets me focus a bit on using my core muscles more while I kick since I am not holding onto that stupid board.

Okay now I am more confused....moonwalk as kick. What do you mean?

I was going to start the training program tomorrow.  Most of the beginning swim programs have distances for the warm up that look like a whole work out.  I have been swimming a lot but not on a program.  A few laps of crawl and then a few laps of breast stroke. 

Today I have just been moon walking around the living room trying to figure out how to make it a kick.  Guess I will need moon walking lessons so I can learn to swim.

I didn't know tri's would be so complicated.  I mean just swim, bike and run.  But no, that is not the way of it.  There are drills and intervals and just putting in time.  When I jumped into this I thought all I would do is figure out how to make it 750m swim then do a bit of biking and then how hard can a 5k be.  Now after the first one I am addicted and trying to figuring out how to get better and faster.  I feel like a visa commercial.

swim lessons: $45
running shoes:  $125
bike on craig's list:  $300
Finishing a triathlon with my sister:  priceless

My friend MAV calls spending money/shopping the 4th sport of triathlon.  So far it's the easiest to master!

Have you seen Michael Jackson's moon walk?  Maybe a sampling can be found on youtube from an old MTV video.  Anyway, that same general movement is what I applied to my kick.  For whatever reason, the description of the moon walk movement worked for me very well.

Here's the thread where I found the reference to moon walking.  I suppose this is a YMMV issue.  For me, envisioning the moon walk and applying it to the pool was my ah-ha moment.

http://www.totalimmersion.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1484

Edited by betyoursilver 2010-09-19 7:02 PM

Where do you look when you breath.  I have heard slightly back (like the back corner of the room) and slightly forward (front corner of the room)  I have problems with siting.  If tilt slightly back I breath fine but sighting and looking forward doesn't work too well.  What is the trick?

When I think of the moonwalk and how it might relate to kicking in freestyle, I think the key is that the movement originates in the hips, not the knees. Also, your hamstrings and glutes should be powering your kick, so if you are feeling tired in your quads from a kick set, try focusing on keeping your legs straighter and using you butt muscles and the hamstrings.
I use kettlebells a lot and the greatest crossover to triathlon I noticed was a faster kick. It was pretty dramatic. Kettleblells work the posterior chain very effectively (gluts, hamstrings).
The thread that was mentioned suggested putting socks on and sliding your heel back and then lifting it off the ground, as if you are doing a slow motion moon walk. That will help you feel your hamstring firing, which you can then try to replicate while swimming to make sure you are using the proper muscles.

The  movement from the hip and engaging the hamstring is what I focused on in the water and it worked.  I took it in baby steps, just kicking, no arm stroke.

After about the fourth trip down I finally started going somewhere.  This has the possibility of being a long process.  Doing a swim workout if much harder then just swimming back and forth.   Now that I was thinking of the kick the breathing went down hill.   I have faith it will all come together.  Anyone know any good coaches in the Denver area? 

Have you checked Yelp.com?  While I didn't find my coach through Yelp, it helped that she received rave Yelp reviews.  

Thanks,  I will try them.

After reading the thread on TI about the moonwalk and thinking more about i,t I figured out what you mean.  I tried to focus more on gluts moving from the hip while kicking and I think it helps.  Was able to complete week 3 WO#1 today.  My only issue is my goggles fog and it is hard to see my watch to check if my times are getting faster for the build.  Since they are only 25s I can't use the swim clock since the ones on each end aren't in sync and I can't see the one I started with very well when I get to the other end.  Any suggestions to keep the goggles fog free?  My pool is warm-often in the low 80s so that doesn't help either.

It is a bit better but I still get the quads doing a lot of the work.   Guess I will see what happens on this Sunday's tri.

I have tried that anti-fog stuff, but it didn't seem to do anything to prevent fogging.  Usually I break the seal on my goggles when I stop to rest,and the cool air gets rid of the fog real quick.  Glad to hear the moonwalk is helping some.  I'm not going to imply that it was easy to get my kick into better shape, but I think the moonwalk description enables you to focus on the right muscles for the job.

A lot, but since they were my coaches in the late 70's through high school (mid 80's) I think they are all retired now. ~

If you have access, get a video taken of you swimming. Underwater and above water preferably, but even an overhead kind of shot would be good and us fishes can critique. Nicely, of course!

If all else fails, my parents live in Centennial as well, and I'm a few times a year for vacation and the Rattlesnake in Aug, I could meet you and take a look.

John

Have you tried spitting in your goggles, rubbing it in, then rinsing, before you swim?

I can't video.  I can't even get anyone to work out with me let alone video.  As far as critiquing I know I am in now danger of coming in first so I will take all the help I can get.
I started this whole thing to help my sister reach her goal weight lose.  But as she says my OCD (obsessive competitive disorder) has kicked in and now I want to see what I can really do.  We did our first one at the Aurora res at the end of July and there really was a rattlesnake.  Seemed very angry with everyone running through his hood.  I said I would stick with her so my time was bad but her time was good.  Now I will be doing one on Sunday and can at least set a real time for me so see how I can improve for next summer.  That is where learning to swim would be very helpful. 
My swim in the first one was 23 minutes so clearly I can improve there.  When I do the swim drill I go really fast (for me) with the swim buoy but without it it is a struggle.  Better then when I started though.  Now I can get to the end of the pool.

Sorry for the delayed response. If you swim well with the buoy but bad without it, that's a position thing. Check your head position, that you aren't looking up, and/or your catch (First part of the underwater stroke) is not grabbing enough water, and you sink.

aquakickz is near you, they have some good instructors.

John

Finished week 3. I really like this program so far!

Edited by KOM 2010-09-26 7:45 PM

I have been competing in Duathlons and running frequently.  I am a very strong cyclist, and my running intervals are coming down.  The problem I am facing is that i never learned how to swim.  For what ever reason as a kid, It just didnt happen.  Now my wife, whom has been a competitive  Triathlete in College and is now working towards a half Ironman, I want to join her.  She is a VERY strong swimmer and teaches masters at the local pool, but learning ANYTHING from your spouse is not a productive situation.  Anyways, I have no fear of the water, i just have no form. The local club doesnt have any additional resources to teach adults, since most of the lessons are geared to kids. 
Where do I begin?

1 on 1 lessons have proven most useful to me so far.  However, I have used many of the drills from the Total Immersion swimming videos to get started initially.  With that said, I sorta knew how to swim - meaning, I learned how not to drown swim as a kid, but never really developed my swimming form to the point where I could compete on a team.  In fact, I grew up in a rural area, so there was no such thing as a swim team - just limited kids swim lessons at the junior college during summer vacation.

Does your wife know someone that can give you lessons? I totally agree that learning from a spouse is not ideal. It can be very beneficial to start off with a coach one-on-one to make sure you aren't reinforcing improper technique, but if that is not as option maybe you can join Masters but not in your wife's class?

Awesome! Keep it up.

I've just reviewed the learning to swim program, and I am considering starting the month 1 workouts.  In the workouts for month 1, some seem too easy relative to where I'm at, while others seem challenging.  For instance, some of the workouts call for 200m continuously, but I'm not yet at the point where a continuous 200m is do-able.  I can swim 150, but my 150m looks like this:  continuous 75m ok, briefly stop & take 1-2 breaths, +25m, stop and now I'm REALLY gasping for air & require about 4 breaths, +25 = 150m and by the end of 150 I'm a hot mess.  My instructor will ask "how did that feel?"  and I can barely utter "uh <gasp>...uh<gasp>...uh<gasp>".   By the end of 150, my breathing is heavier than when I am climbing steep hills for 5-6 miles on my bike.   During that last 25 it feels like my form has completely fallen apart.  However, my swim instructor swears otherwise - claiming I am maintaining my form throughout.  To me, it feels awful.   Has anyone else experienced this?  Right now, I feel like I'm simply not making any progress on endurance.   I have decided to take a few rest days, and resume swimming on Wednesday.