Allison and Ryan's Beginner Mentor Group - FULL (Page 4)

Hi Baker,

I'm doing the same thing that you are, I'm focusing on getting the time in and not worrying about distances and pace as long as the pace is reasonable.  And I'm much happier approaching things that way than I was before when it was all about pace and distance, and making constant improvement with every workout.  I was putting a lot of pressure on myself when this is supposed to be fun after all.  Maybe I've gotten wiser in the twenty years since I last did serious endurance training, but now I just don't really care about my finishing times.  I just want to get the distance in so I can finish any race I enter, and if I come in last I really won't mind.  I'll get the same t shirt and water bottle as everyone else...  My advice is to keep keeping it simple and just have some fun.  Fun and finishing are my goals, sounds like they are yours too.

SFD156/Dan - Northwest Indiana is pretty close.  If you're on CST time then you're probably just as much a Chicago suburbanite as much as I am.  If you do the Chicago tri we'll have to meet up.  I'm hoping Ryan is still going to do it this year too so we can see if his blazing fast run streak holds.

LamarT - So jealous of the Bahamas.  Even as Chicago warms up I dream of more tropical climates.  What, exactly, is NCS and how does it cause you to pass out?  I'm glad your meds control it so you can run.  It's an acquired addiction but has become my favorite.

huntnjerm/Jeremy - The swim is the most challenging part for most new triathletes.  Actually, I would bet that the swim is what keeps most curious folks from ever toeing the start line.  You've got plenty of time before August and you'll be great.

alath/Anthony - We do "family cycling" too.  If I can average over 12mph while pulling my son in his trailer it's about the same workout, heart rate wise, as a 16-17mph solo ride.  When you ride alone it's like flying after pulling all that extra weight.  It's great for hill confidence too.

runlikethewind81/Lisa - I'm so glad you're here to learn more about triathlon and I hope you'll sign up for a race this season.  I was tentative about my first race so I started training toward a particular one but didn't sign up until 2 weeks before.  I wanted to make sure I could at least do the distances before I committed.

wushunut/Keye - You'll be surprised at how fast all the biking and running from your younger years comes back to you.  Your first race sounds perfect for starting out and with a supportive spouse who has done it herself you're sure to succeed.  BTW, tell your wife I'm in awe of her being a wife, mother, triathlete and serving.  Now THAT is sacrifice.

Tripopo/Kirk - Congrats on the recently acquired wife.  My husband tells me he can't figure out how he survived before he got his   I'd like to say that I'm not intense, but Ryan would tell you I was lying.  Fortunately I reserve the whip cracking for myself.  Unfortunately you'll have to put up with my lame joke cracking.

Viking58/Dave - My husband and I did the 100km Tour de Cure last year and are doing the 100mile version this year here in Illinois.  Ours needs a little more organization on the support end of things but our team captain got involved this year so we're hoping for a smoother ride this year.  It's such a great organization and cause that it's worth it either way.  How many days is the CNC?  We'll talk more about tackling hills later...

sarahv717/Sarah - I am sometimes so jealous of single triathletes whose free time is actually free time.  I did my first half marathon in November and it was fantastic as I'm sure yours will be.  How often are you doing weights and yoga each week?

dnoble/Dan - Go Cubs! My older brother is a Cubs and Bears fan in Wisconsin.  He used to live on a busy street where cars would drive by honking and yelling when he hung out his Bears flag.  Fortunately he now lives at then end of a dead end road and his kids no longer get woken up by irate Packer fans.  Moderation and triathlon rarely go hand in hand.  It's important as you're ramping up training volume and distance to not go too hard or far.  What's more important is letting go of the days and times that you just can't manage what you think you should be doing.  Focus on doing only what your body can handle and stopping when your body tells you to.

yardleybates/Shannon - My husband and I are doing the Chicago marathon this year too.  It'll be our first.  Crazy Aunt Quincy will be there with her husband too.  We'll introduce Crazy Aunt Quincy later.  I've looked at the Lake Zurich tri before but it's never fit into my schedule.  Maybe next year.  I did my first tri on a hybrid with clipless pedals and I actually passed a few people.  Good times!

bakerswife/Mary - OMG. Not only are you not old but there are studies showing that by becoming active you'll stay younger longer.  The reason you thought you could do this is because you can.  Remember that when you're doing the race you're actually only competing against the other women in your age group (50-54) and you're younger than all of them.

jeanawright/Jeana - Go Navy!  My BIL was in the Navy although he was a computer geek on a cruiser which is a lot more common than a submariner.  I wish races here were $5, although we do get quite a few local $20 races for charity that are fun.  I love when someone gets bitten with the tri bug and I'm glad you're bringing your enthusiasm to our group. 

Did I miss anyone?  Time to head to the pool but I'll be back to start answering all the questions you've all posted this afternoon.  Although you all seem to be helping each other pretty darn well without our help.  Keep up the good work!

any tips other than keep trying to learn to breathe on the other side when swimming? I naturally breathe to the right and start out every 3rd stroke, but then have to progress to every stroke as I run out of breath pretty quickly in the swim.

Backstroke is so much easier as you don't have the breathing issue. Do you really benefit from that in your training? I feel like I'm cheating if I backstroke.

I did some breast stroke the first day, but I know that will be a nightmare in the OWS so I am trying not to do any of that in my swim training.

As others have noted, I'm kind of going into the swim training as I did when training for my first half mary, which is mostly getting the "miles" in the bank. Not worrying so much about drills and speed and so forth. Should I consider drills and other things for the swim training on my first tri?

bi-lateral breathing.  To me it's un-natural, because I've always rolled to breathe on my right and that is my power pull stroke as well.  Last time in the pool, I tried to bi-lateral breathe and it just wasn't working, so I gave up after 25 yards.  Everytime I rolled left it took me out of rhythm.  What I'm going to do in tomorrow's swim is just breathe from the left until I can get the feel of the roll, and while doing so make sure I pull equally with both strokes.  Once I get comfortable rolling to the left, will work on a "stroke-stroke-breathe right-stroke-stroke-breathe left" rhythm ..

I don't have the money for a good swim coach right now, but if anyone has any training suggestions to go from a rhythm right-side only to bi-lateral breathing, the suggestions would be helpful.

Yeah my approach is to put in the miles once I feel like I have some form down along with breathing. Then I will look to increasing speed down the road.

My question for those that have done a Tri, is it frowned upon if i were to roll over on my back in case I was to fatigue early, to catch my breath etc.?

You will get a lot of different responses from triathletes about people doing backstroke/breaststroke in a race.  I think generally it's more of a safety issue concerning backstroke because it's difficult to see where you're going.  I did a little breaststroking in my first race which helped me catch my breathe but let me continue moving forward. I made sure no one was near me though because the "frog kick" is not good when people are nearby! But I am sure you will see people doing all sorts of things in the water.

Bi-lateral breathing can be pretty difficult to adjust to. But it is quite important in open water swimming because it tends to keep you going in a straight line, allows you to sight more easily for landmarks, avoid choppy water/splashing of nearby competitors, etc.

I am not a swim expert but I will try to give a few suggestions: If you do warm-ups/warm-downs then try to breathe on your weaker side then as your pace is slower. It will get better with practice. Often people who only breathe on 1 side have a weaker side when swimming which makes breathing on that side more difficult but when time and practice that weak side will become stronger and breathing will become easier.  Also make sure you exhale completely underwater. Do not exhale out of the water at all. 

Mary - In my opinion I think putting in the time is a very important thing in the beginning. But putting in miles of running and biking are very important too.  It helps you keep track of your pace (mph, 5k pace, etc).  For example if you can run a 5k in 30 minutes then tracking that you did a 30 min training run is not nearly as helpful as saying you did a 30 min/3.5 mile training run. I don't use a heart rate monitor either. I track my miles so I can see at the end of a week/month/year how far I have gone.  Now that I have been doing this for a few years I combine time and distance though.  Keep tracking distances though because you want to make sure you can actually finish running a 5k, biking 12 miles, swimming 500yds, etc.  But focusing on time spent training and on form are also very important.

I just put in the "miles" myself. Okay...yards, but that's beside the point.  This past week is the first week that I've finally felt "at ease" in the water.  I favor my right side for breathing but I still practice bi-lateral breathing.  My session usually starts out breathing every three strokes (right, then left) and as I need more air I either slow down (thus less air needed) or breathe twice on the right, then twice on the left.  Still bilateral but I read you're getting 33% more oxygen than regular bilateral breathing.  Finally when I'm about tapped out I go to my right side only, breathing on every stroke.  It's kind of funny though, since I've become more comfortable in the water and have practiced being balanced I've been able to "slow" down and not feel like I was sinking.  Before I felt like I had to go all out to stay afloat, so I'd use more oxygen, and thus having to breathe every stroke.

Bi-lateral breathing has been useful for me.  Sometimes I might get a mouthful of water and no air, it's nice to be able to just rotate to the other side to get a breath.

BTW, my swim teacher (not the best by any means, but still helpful) just had me swim.  I never learned any drills.

That's the main reason that my wife wants me to do the Chicago Tri again this year too (I had previously mentioned sitting it out this year).  Oh such pressure to be 2nd on the run 3 years in a row

Who said 2nd? I thought you'd shoot for 1st this year.

So here's my training question.  My first tri is a sprint on June 18 but it's more like a half sprint (200m swim, 8mi bike, 2.5mile run) and I'm about halfway through my sprint program.  At this point I feel pretty confident that I can finish the race since my training is actually for a full sprint length.  I guess my question is two-fold.

1) Am I overtraining for my first?

2) Then what? I'd like to do a true spring later in the year, what routine should I follow?

1: You're not overtraining.  I have seen a variety of distances in sprint races. Since you are training for slightly longer distance than your first race that is great and you'll be fully confident that you can complete the course.

2: When is your 2nd race? You could continue another sprint training session and focus a little more on the weaknesses you had in your first race (swimming/biking/running). You can also mix in practicing things like transitions too or doing more open water swimming (if you will race in those conditions).  Then after your 2nd race you could decide to begin an Olympic distance training program if you desired to.

For biking and running there conventional wisdom is that in order to improve you have to put in the miles.  Then put in more miles.  And then some more miles on top of that.  That's not how swimming works.

Swimming is so much about your form and technique.  You can put in more miles than Michael Phelps but if your form is wrong you're never going to go fast.  That's why you'll see so many of the BT regulars and experts advising swim lessons, coaches and masters classes.  If those things are out of reach for your budget or schedule you can always find a friend who is a good swimmer, or just ask someone at the pool who looks fast and smooth in the water, to give you a critique.  Some folks will videotape a training session so they can see how they move through their stroke to find ways to improve.

So first things first.  You need to be able to swim freestyle from one end of the pool to the other without choking on water.  Don't worry about what side you breathe on, how you kick your legs or the way your hand enters the water.  Just get from one end to the other.

If you can do that it's a simple matter of adding lengths without rest.  You work up to 50, then 100 and the next thing you know you can swim the distance of your race.

Once you can swim a 100 you're ready to work on your form and technique.  That's where drills come in.  I will not lie, drills are generally not fun but they are so important to learning proper positioning in the water.  If you do your drills regularly and properly you will find that you're not just faster, but that swimming is easier.  And we all want swimming to be easier.

I do the ones below, but there are tons more if you look and ask around.  Every time I'm in the pool I do an 8x50 set of drills before my main set then again after the main set.  No, you don't have to do that much, I'm training for a half ironman so my swim volume is going to be a lot higher than what you'll do for a sprint.  I'm still not fast in the water, but I'm a lot faster since I incorporated these than I was before. 

Kick Drill - With arms held at side, kick from the hip across the pool.  Your butt should break the surface of the water and your toes should stay pointed.  When you need a breath lift your head up to the front, breathe, then resume your position kicking the entire time.  You'll find that when you lift your head your legs drop and you slow down.  When you tuck your chin your legs will stay higher in the water which will decrease drag and you'll go faster.

Fist Drill - Normal stroke with your hands balled into a fist rather than open.  This will teach you how to pull using your entire arm rather than your hand.

Side Balance Drill - Kick from one end of the pool to the other on your side.  The arm on your "up" side should be at your side while the arm on your "down" side should be stretched forward above your head.  Kick from the hip.  If you can't make it across the pool on one side (I can't) then every 10 kicks or so you'll switch by doing three normal strokes then rolling to the other side.  This will help you find your balance in the water.

Fingertip Drill - Normal stroke but during the recovery (when your hand is out of the water moving to start a new pull) you drag just your fingertips through the water instead of keeping your hand above the water.  This will teach you to keep a high elbow and avoid the windmill stroke.

Catch-up Drill - Normal stroke but you will only be moving one arm at a time.  Kick off the wall with both arms extended then begin your stroke with one arm while continuing to reach out with the other.  Finish your pull then begin recovery all without moving the extended arm.  When you finish your recovery you'll touch your hands together (brush thumbs or whatever) then begin your next stroke with the opposite arm.  This will teach you to lengthen your body in the water, use your glide and make sure your hands aren't entering the water to early (which reduces the effectiveness of your pull)

Note: If I've explained any of these incorrectly hopefully one of our swim gurus will set the record straight.

I'll add that overtraining is doing more than your body can handle.  What you're doing is being prepared.  Training for a distance longer than what you're planning to race will give you more endurance thus allow you greater speed at the shorter race.  It's a good plan actually.

As far as what to do after that, you could find another sprint training plan that's more rigorous and do it, or start on an Oly plan to get that extra preparation.  Bonus is that if you decide to do an Oly after the full sprint you'll already be well into the training for it.

Jean, where's your race report from the 10 miler?  We want to read all about it!

Jeremy, I saw your race report but I'm gonna need more data.  Was this your first half marathon?  Were the hills only on the last half of the race?  Did you track your splits?  Inquiring minds want to know!

WaHoo WOW Thanks!~

Yeah this was my first Half that I ran. I power walked a half back in March with my wife. As far as the hills were concerned there were quite a few hills in the beginning then at the very end you finish on a hill. I do track my splits which are below.After encountering and keeping a fast pace up the beginning race hills, I wore myself out and seemed to make the heat and humidity feel worse at that point. At mile 6 is when I had to really slow down as I felt over heated, clammy, cold chills. I didn't want to fall out on heat exhaustion or worse stroke, so i slowed my roll. So yea in my report I mentioned pace differently and basically just mean if I could go back and re-run it I would definately pace those hills in the beginning differently considering my training up till now.

1: 8:29

2: 17:08 (8:39)

3: 25:10 (8:02)

4: 33:46 (8:37)

5: 43:08 (9:22)

6: 53:44 (10:36)

7: 1:04:37 (10:53)

8: 1:16:27 (11:50)

9: 1:26:23 (9:57)

10: 1:38:30 (12:07)

11: 1:49:16 (10:46)

12: 2:02:09 (12:53)

13: 2:12:31 (10:22)

If you're talking about a HRM that will work for all three and act as your bike computer to track speed and distance, I don't know if you'll find anything new for that price.  If that's what you want try looking for a used Garmin 310 or some of the Polars can do it as well.

I have a cheap (under $100) Sportline that I wear whenever I'm training with a separate Cateye computer for the bike ($60) and just figure my run distances using the route mapper here on BT.

thanks guys - that makes me feel better. I was afraid I was a total slacker.

Ryan - I am tracking the distances, just not paying that much attention to them right now. Although I have to admit when I swim (this is my best sport) I do go fast enough to try and reach some distance goals. But for the running - where I'm always worried about hurting myself I am focusing on the time. We'll see just how that works out for me - I have a 5 K in two weeks

Very excited about my very first ever race of any kind ...

Mary (the baker)

Hi Mary,

I'm similar that when it comes to the run and the bike that I just got for time.  The distance just seems to come.  The only thing where I'm focused on distance is the swim.  Simply because it's what I'm most apprehensive about and I just want to be able to swim the distance.  Without drowning.