Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED (Page 4)

I want to come to Orlando!!!  That would be incredible to swim in.  The only thing that would be better would be long course lengths. 

Your workouts look like they are keeping you busy and out of trouble.  With all the time s/b/r you can't be spending to much time in all the wrong places.

As Jonathon said......Count.  It is really that easy.  Try not to make it any harder than that, it will just frustrate you.  It sounds like your swim fitness is low enough that losing count shouldn't be an issue.  As you become a better swimmer you will learn to count a little better too, it just works that way.  I know at times, when distracted, I'll lose count and can't remember where I was.  Usually this will happen on some of my longer sets, say 250-500 yds. or so.  I also am very anal about making sure I get the correct number of lengths in during a set.  If I am not sure if I have done 200 or 250, I'll take another lap.

Speaking of laps, I am also with Jonathon here too.  Really it doesn't make all that much difference though.  The important thing is that you have targeted workouts and you complete them.  I swim even numbers for all of my swims (50, 100, 150...) but many people recommend doing 75 yard reps for a good change up to your workouts. 

As far as breathing, again as Jonathon said, make sure you are looking at the bottom of the pool throughout the stroke and only rotate your head and shoulders.  However, try not to over rotate.  Your shoulders should only turn far enough to become perpendicular to the bottom of the pool.  Now for the actual breathing, you should try to very slowly exhale through your nose (small bubbles) between breaths.  Personally I think you should take the time right now to learn to use bilateral breathing because you may very well need it during races. 

Pacing is simple,  go only as fast as you can sustain for the determined distance.  if you are not sure what that is take your time, it will come to you pretty soon.  Remember don't try to over think things, it will only frustrate you.

____________

Speaking of all this swimming, I was supposed to be in the pool tonight but the hours are STUPID!!  They have some really ridiculous hours this time of year.  5:15-6:00 most nights but tonight was 4:00-6:00 but I had to work until 6:30.  I had 3500 yds scheduled for tonight with a 24x50 being the main set with escalating intensity.  It is a very difficult workout but its way fun when you see how fast it makes you.  I did this workout with my daughter (HS swimmer) over the Christmas break and I felt like someone "opened up a can" on me.

Tomorrow is a 7 mile run with 3-4 at tempo pace.  Gotta get a little speed work in before my HM coming up soon.

I started swimming a little over a year ago and couldn't complete more than 1 lap - I realized I was nt comfortable and was trying to get to the other side as fast as I could because of that.  I had to consciously slow myself down and finally it clicked in.  

As for counting laps I just repeat in my head 1,1, 1, during the first lap then 2, 2, 2 during the 2nd lap etc.  It gets boring but it works for me.  Sometimes my mind does wander and I lose count when that happens if for example if I can't remember if I am on the 34th or 35th lap I play it safe and call it 34.

So my first sprint tri is coming up on May 22nd and I am starting to think about the type of clothes/equipment I need to get.  I have all the basics: bike, shoes etc.  I do not have any tri shorts (currently only biking shorts) or top and wondering if anyone has any recommendations.  I anticipate that it may be chilly at 6:30am on 5/22 especially after the outdoor pool swim.  Should I get long sleeve or sleeveless top?  Any specific brands that are recommended?  Also, is there anything else I should think about getting for my first tri that you have found helpful.

Thanks - Greg

You betcha I do.  Here is a copy and paste from Dec 27 log entry.  I had done this workout one other time before this one and about 3 more time since.  But it is pretty hard.  My goal by the first week or so of May is a 6:59 500 TT.

Effort: Hard
This was the first of 3 days in a row for the swims this week. I wish I had time for 3 swims every week but that's going to happen anytime soon.
I made today's effort pretty hard. The WU was slightly different than I have been doing but it included all the normal stuff, just rearranged.
The main set was all the 50's from last week minus the :40's w/fins. i was considering doing 3 of those but opted out because I plan on hitting everything hard this week and I may need to watch all the extra intensity. anyway, the 50's were about the same level of effort as last week and I was finishing slightly earlier than last week on the sets up to :55. After that I was landing the same or just a tad later.
This was a good hard workout. This will become a staple for my speed work.
2x250 WU
2x200 Pull w/buoy
100 Kick w/fins
200 w/fins
6x50 on 1:00 (:20 rests/very easy)
6x50 on :55 (:15 rests/easy)
6x50 on :50 (:9-:10 rests/mod)
1:00 Rest
6x50 on :45 (:02-:03 rests/hard)
100 Kick w/fins
2x500 - 1st at 7:37 (mod) 2nd at 8:00 (easy)CD

19.2 mph is a serious speed brother.  I'd take that one.  But I have to say I have no idea what kind of greek you are speaking with the watts.  I knew you bought the power tap during the last summer MG session but I don't know how to interpret that for me.  215 sound like a big number to me.

Keep the extra runs coming and you'll notice some speed coming on slowly.  Just don't force it.

I agree with all that's been said about lap counting.  Just count, and when in doubt round down.  As far as breathing (and all things form especially for a beginner), I completely second the lessons part.  At a minimum try to get a video - there are some really inexpensive underwater hand held cameras. 

After getting some video of my swim form, I found what I thought I was doing and what I was actually doing were dramatically different.  And after a few lessons with a real swim coach, some obvious flaws were corrected that were seriously slowing me down.  Since swimming is ALL about form, the coaching/lesson part is a huge bang for the buck.

And that pool is bigger than most lakes up here!  Awesome place to be stuck if you have to be on the road.

That's a crazy swim workout Dirk.  I'd have to say that stringing a few of those together should get you to your TT goal.  And 200+ watts for over an hour sounds like a monster workout to me, Jonathon.  Great job pushing.

For sprints, I wear just running tights under the wetsuit.  I don't worry about having any padding as the bike portion is relatively short.  In terms of wetsuit, I've heard it said if it's worth wearing one, go with a full sleeve.  I have a full sleeve xterra, and it was pretty cheap and seems fine for me.  It takes a little getting used to, but it really doesn't interfere too much once you've tried it a few times.  And it really only takes a few seconds to get off.

Otherwise I think you should go simple - the less clutter in your transition spot the better.  Practice your transitions and work out what you really need as well as the sequencing of what you need to get done.  The transitions will be more chaotic race day, so some practice really helps.

X2^^^

If it is a pool swim I don't think I would wear a wetsuit for it.  The chlorine damages the suit, although once isn't probably going to do much.  But when a wetsuit is needed I would go with the full suit.

Practicing the transitions is a VERY good idea!!!!  I did this before my first tri and I am sure it saved me a ton of time.  I went through the entire transition.  Wetsuit on, bike racked transition laid out...............wetsuit off, bike shoes on, run to the road, onto the bike ride a couple of miles, shoes off (while on the bike), stop at the "bike entrance," run into transition area, rack bike, helmet off, shoes and race belt on and run .5 miles.......done twice for practice.

LOL!  Sho nuff is BT!  This is only my second full season and I have learned TONS.  The MG is where it's at for learning.  If it weren't for others within those groups I would be thoroughly lost and floundering in my training.  If I do well in my races it's because I have worked hard and smart.  The smart part comes from listening to others who have "been there, done that" and they get the credit for teaching and mentoring me.

Thanks Guys for the swim tips. I am going to have my wife record me so I can see what I am doing wrong and stop trying to count laps so much. I am also fairly anal about numbers and counts and realize I probably don't need a freaking 12 color spread sheet of every workout I do.

103 days till my sprint and counting...

I'm totally doing that workout...sounds like some serious fun :-).

The power is all relative.  I'm a "bigger" guy at 190 lbs, so it requires more work to push my butt over a distance, or "watts".  It probably required a couple of the other guys less than 200 to go the same speed.  The real indicator of how well you are doing with power is by taking your power and dividing it by your weight.  It's a ratio that in a vaccuum you could use to compare yourself to others.  Of course you're never in a vaccuum and different people are more aero and all that...so I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes...it was a good workout, my heart rate at one point was 182 and we were going 35 mph up a slight grade...and someone was pulling me.

As for the run, I just threw in a small one yesterday.  I think what I will do is just run to the end of the road (about .6 miles) and turn around on days that I don't have a run.  If my legs feel really fresh, I might add another half mile or so on to that.  Sound reasonable for now?

Awesome.  When you get the film, make sure she is walking along next to you on the pool deck and then another filming from the end of the pool as you are swimming to the camera and away from it.  Unless of course you have an underwater camera...that would be perfect!

No kidding....I was exactly where you are less than two years ago.  Just keep at it and BE PATIENT.  You're not going to become elite overnight.  We're here to help and to commiserate with...that's the best part about BT.  You can come on here and b1tch about life and your wife/husband/SO doesn't have to hear it. :-)

Hey Greg.  I think the decision about shorts/tri top is really based on budget.  If you have the money to spend on a pair of trishorts and a tritop, IMO definitely do it.  There really are a ton of brands.  Some good ones that I have used are Zoot, Orca, Pearl Izumi, TYR, and Craft.  All these brands make both tops and bottoms.  This time of year is good for left over last years if you are an uncommon size. 

Lucky for you, trisports.com is having their 20% off birthday sale right now.  If you have specific questions about any of the clothing, feel free to ask.

http://www.trisports.com/triathlon-clothing.html

Other things you may want to consider: 

Race number belt (this holds your race number so you don't have to swim with it on).  http://www.trisports.com/racenumberbelt.html

Some sort of bright color transition towel.  When you lay it out next to your bike you'll be able to spot it easily. 

And of course...a wetsuit.  This is a very personal item and needs some thought.  I agree that a full sleeve is the way to go.  A wetsuit is not at all necessary, unless it's freezing in the water of course.  But remember that a wesuit will provide you with some good buoyancy, increase your speed in the water and of course keep you warm when waiting for your swim wave to start.  If you are thinking about buying a wetsuit (and you should if it's not a pool swim), we can get into that a lot more.

We're mostly just starting out.  Like Dirk, I'm about to start my second full year.  I had never run and literally couldn't put my face in the water in terms of swimming 2 years ago.  In fact, I often teased my runner wife that running is what you DO during a real sport, but isn't a sport itself.

This site is the prefect place to accelerate your learning curve and not repeat mistakes others have already made, in a friendly supportive place.  There are contributors from all ability levels, all the way up to bona-fide world class coaches.  I have no idea how many years it would have taken me to get even to this point without BT.

You can definitely come here and rant and get stuff out without judgment, and without burning bridges at home.  We all get it here.  So ask away and keep at it.

In the immortal words of the bard Dr. Suess, "Oh the places you'll go! There is fun to be done! There are points to be scored. There are games to be won." 

Hey, I'm with you!  My very first Tri is July 2nd.  And, I read what's being said about training and I feel like I'm not doing what I need to do.  Although, as previously noted, I used to swim competively, I'm not a runner and in the past I've done a bit  biking however no centuries or anything like that.  That said, I've noticed a huge improvement in the last 4 weeks with just plain perserverance.  I'm going to do this and I'm going to do it well.  My sister is an Ironman so I have a lot of support there as well.  Just know, that you are not alone - I'm a "real" newbie too! 

Finishing your first TRI is such an awesome feeling.  Honestly, I wish I could go back and experience it again.  You guys are going to do great and love it.

Here are some thoughts.

First off, I will say this about all aspects of triathlon for beginners...you don't have to go fast you only have to have fun.  If you WANT to take your time in transition and change clothes, go ahead.  If you WANT to simply finish slowly because you don't want to invest all your free time in triathlon, go ahead.  It's just a fun pastime.

My first few triathlons, I swam in my speedo, then pulled on bike shorts.  It's very slow and awkward.  bike shorts don't go on easy when you are wet.  If the bike shorts have a less absorbent chamois, then they would probably do fine for the swim and would probably make a fine wardrobe choice.  I run in mine all the time.  But if you want to buy a pair of tri shorts, by all means do it.  You can probably find a pair for somewhere near $30 if you are dilligent to search out an online closeout sale.

You don't need a top.  putting one on can and will slow you down, but if it makes you comfortable don't hesitate to do that.  A reasonable option that saves $ is to get a tight fitting dry-weave type shirt from target.  They have a house brand that is inexpensive (thinking < $10).  If it's a lycra blend shirt and fits tight, it would work fine as a top during the swim. 

When the weather gets warmer this summer I will try racing topless again, like I used to do.  As nice as tri tops are, they don't cool as well as bare skin.

I just had a race with a 50 degree temperature at race start.  Getting on the bike all wet and getting up to speed had me very nervous.  I wore a hat under my helmet and put on gloves.  Neither turned out to be needed.  My skin went numb, but there wasn't any sensation of chill.  Your mind is on other things and the excess water evaporates fast.  So I don't think you should need to worry about the temperature.  (but where do you live?  are you talking temps even lower than the 50 degrees I just mentioned?  that might be different).

If you get a top, get a sleeveless top for sure.  If there's anything you should buy that you don't already have it would probably be a race belt.  You need the number on when you run, but don't want it on during the ride and especially not during the swim.  The best way to put on a number during T2 (transition #2) is to use a race belt.  The only other solution that I think works at all is to have the number pinned to a t-shirt and grab that shirt in T2 and put it on during the run (or as you stand in T2...remember you don't have to eek out every second you can unless you want to).

tips for first triathlon:

• make a list of all the items you need for the race itself: goggles, swimsuit, bike, helmet, shoes, race belt, socks?, sunglasses?
• add to the list all the items you need to support the race: towel, tire pump, spare tube, tire irons, water bottle, GPS?, after race clothes.
• set up transition in an easy to find place (if transition location is open for choice).  Otherwise, make it easy to find with a brightly colored towel...perhaps bring chalk and put markings along the route to direct you down the right row.
• leave time to get in the water for a warmup.  If it will be a time-trial start and significant time will pass between race start and your personal start then keep shoes on and try to keep jogging back and forth somewhere nearby until you are about 5 minutes from being called up, then set the shoes aside and get in line.  If you are completely unwarmed up and begin to race then the swim can really suck.

Rest assured that YOU are the right demographic here.  No one should ever feel that they don't measure up because they choose to balance their life priorities/responsibilities differently from others.   You are entirely welcome to train 3 times per week for an hour each.  (that's what I'd consider the bare minimum to ever 'participate' in sprint triathlons). 

If you are a beginner, it's not even advisable, perhaps impossible, to do the volume of training that can be done further down the road after the body has adapted. 

If you ask: "how can I get faster at triathlon" the best answer will almost always be: "do more training".  But, the question that might more appropriately be asked is: "given my budget of 5 or 8 or 12 hours per week of training time, how can I maximize my performance?"

If you are ever tempted to feel inferior to one of us psycho triathletes, just confidently reply that you choose to maintain a more healthy balance in life!

^ x2.

Enjoy your first one,  don't fret too much about the results.  Just soak it all in, don't let the crazy bikes and such bother you at all.  Take some pictures, get someone to take a shot of you finishing, and have FUN.  That's why most of us are here in the end.  Plenty of time later to get faster and more polished.