Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED (Page 41)

Just after I post, I find the race report. Super stoked! I came in third in my age group and 15th overall! Everything I was hoping for. The 1 and 2 were the overall 1 and 2's so not too bad of company. Here is the race report: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=266478

bdj6020 - 2011-08-29 9:23 AM So the first week of my 26 week 50k training program snuck up on me this past weekend.  I completed my 16 mile long run on Saturday morning in 2:38. It was 65 degrees when we started before sunup.  That was awesome.  The run felt good.  It did start getting a wee bit warm for the last four miles.  No aches or pains on Sunday.  I'm pleased my base survived the summer. 

Impressive!

Super Stoked sounds right.  That's awesome.

Here's my race report from the weekend.

I made the overall podium for the first time.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/races-edit.asp?raceid=178960

Jeff and Ryan, awesome work guys.  I'm still looking for any sort of podium spot.  GRRR!  Feels like people keep getting faster every year!

I've been off of running since Saturday.  Both my legs have been really sore for what I thought was no reason at all.  My feet had started hurting and everything seemed to be off on my run on Saturday.  I was having to walk a bunch of times to get little soreness to go away.  Turns out that when I put my orthodics in my new shoes I forgot to take out one of the insoles.  I feel like such a damn idiot, you have no idea.  I was honestly thinking about selling the shoes because I was having such a problem with them, but it turns out I'm just a big dope.

But the flip side of that coin is: PROBLEM SOLVED!

Yeah, I hope so.  I am going to do my 3 miles tonight and see how the legs feel.  I find it really hard to stay slow on my runs, but it seems to be the only thing that allows me to run the next day.  I love the feeling of going "fast".  Once I'm warmed up, I can cruise along at race pace and I love the feeling.  How do you stay slowed down?  I try to keep my heart rate under 150, but at any temperature over 75, going uphill, I can't...I HAVE to walk.  It's super frustrating to listen to my watch beep at me that I'm out of the zone.

I understand how you are feeling.  You're a race horse.  I hear that it's hard to keep a thoroughbred from running hard.  If you hold yourself back long enough you break that habit.  You will still get to have fun running fast, just keep it rare.  I don't have that problem with running, but on the bike....I can't go easy even if I were to try. 

I should have elaborated more on the heart rate limit.  Keep the HR below 150 when you are on flat ground...or think of keeping your run's average HR under 150.  If it momentarily spikes up when you go up hill that's not a concern.  But do concentrate on keeping your EFFORT the same as you go up the hill...but once you slow to the point that you aren't really even running anymore, forget the HR or effort cap and just finish running the hill. 

And when it's super warm outside you will probably see 10 beats higher per miinute at a given pace.  Sometimes your perceived exertion goes up along with the HR and it's a pretty clear call to just run slower.  But if your perceived exertion sticks to your running pace and it's just an elevated HR due to the temps, I'd probably suggest you keep your standard easy running pace even though your HR will elevate.

Overall, what is important is that the run not be very physically stressful such that 8 hours later you would feel fine about the idea of doing it all over again.  If that's true, HR doesn't matter.

Okay, gotcha.  This makes perfect sense.  Thanks.

I have just reached a new milestone and felt I needed to show off.  With my last 2 runs I have surpassed 200m of activity for the month of August.  This is my highest total yet for a month.  As the chart shows I started slow, but progressed steadily, then fell off the wagon for some reason.  Made a good comeback though to get ready for my lsat tri coming up on 9-11.  Really looking forward to seeing how everythign turns out in this race.  My only wish is that I could find more time to swim since this is really my week point.

On a Side note I think I have accidentaly allowed some friends to talk me into a Half Marathon in November.  Not sure how this will go but I think I will at least finish.  Believe I can set a goal of under 2hr30m and be able to meet it.  For August I averaged just under 15m per week of running.  This week I am going to be well over 20m and up to this point, I am not experiencing any discomfort other than a little soreness in the morning that quickly goes away.  Does anyone have any thoughts on what I need to do to be ready for a HM by November 12? 

Well done on your milestone.   As for running a half marathon, you have plenty of time to get trained up for that.  If you aren't used to running that long of a distance, I encourage you to look at and consider a run/walk plan.  You should easily be able to make your 2:30 time goal on one of those.  I also highly recommend that you read this book if you haven't already.

Marathoning for Mortals http://amzn.to/mYpSQx

Not too many Kenyans are shaking in their shoes when I race, so take this as you will.

Id' say at this point, just run a little more every week, mostly easy.  When I did my HM this spring, I just focused on running almost every day and almost all at a VERY comfortable pace.  At our level, there's nothing fast about a half marathon!  I also think doing at least one longer run a week really helps when going to the 13.1 distance. 

As far as run/walk - if you're going to do it practice it as well.  There's a dude in the next town over who runs very fast marathons using this method - like 2:45-2:50ish, but in full disclosure he was crazy fast in his youth, like in the 2:20s.

It makes for one tough action hero!

Regarding your HM, I would agree with the above.  After your final tri, just run a lot.  If all of that running is easy, that enables your body to tolerate the greatest amount of volume without injury.  That's really what you want between now and then.  The last week before the HM doesn't matter (unless you don't run at all...that would be bad), so the last day you need to consider yourself 'in training' for the half is the day 1 week before the race.  Make that day your longest single run in your lead up to the race.  Then that last week should be probably half the total miles as the week before.

Prioritize total weekly mileage over a single run (if a long run on Saturday requires a short day friday and a rest day Sunday then it's probably not a good trade off).

EASY!

One way to describe EASY is that during and after a run the only discomfort/stress you feel is fatigue in the legs due to the distance.  No fatigue felt cardiovascularly.

If this week is over 20 and you don't feel any ill effects, I'm guessing that with a gradual, safe build in mileage that your longest week just before the HM could be as high as 35-40.

A good friend and coworker of mine routinely wins or comes in top 2 in races around here was giving me some advice with regard to run training at an early stage.  Much of what he said was exactly what Jeff preaches here.  He said that you have to build a "deep base" before you can work on speed.  There is something important in that word "deep".

The Winter Run Focus Program.

There were a variety of good suggestions for group collaboration with our running program.  The idea that seemed most attractive to me was to set up a yahoo group.  There is often a lot of debate about the best way to go about run training and sometimes it becomes a little bit of a religious topic for some.  I wanted something semi-private so that I wouldn't be flamed by people with different training theories.  (I do not get offended by differing opinions mind you...)

I created a group and would like you all to join. 

Click to join run_focus

You can actually start your run 'program' whenever you wish.  We can all start up at various times based on when your last triathlon is and after any 'vacation' you want from your season.  I think Jonathon is raring to go.  Dirk wants a bike focus but may want to be part of the group just to participate in the discussion.

I will use the same principles/strategies/philosophy in creating a training program for your specific level and experience (and ability).  But the whole process will be continuously collaborative and adjusted for your work/life schedule and balance of priorities.

The group is set to send me emails and I can just respond to those emails.  That's the perfect way for me to be involved because I'm always in front of email and it's very convenient for me to reply.

The group's email address is: [email protected]

All emails sent to that address are 'posted' on our group page and, depending on your personal settings will be received in your email box.

X2 on the heat issue!!!

I just ran an easy 5k with 93/101.  We have had some pretty ridiculous heat swings in the past couple of weeks.  It can make for some difficult runs when it goes back and forth like it has been.

I have no idea how you guys do it.  85 and I'm in the AC complaining to no end.  Of course, in January we'll be out in 3 degrees with wind chill of -10, but that's another issue.

I just joined the run group.  I'm about at the end of my two weeks off after my last race and am hoping to get back after it.  The Achilles is still not 100%, but I don' think full rest is the ticket.

I’ve got a question about bikes.  I read a lot of threads on here that talk about a 1-2 mph gain going from road bike with aero bars to tri bike.  Is this your experience? 

It sounds like not a lot, but if I gained another 1 mph at Timberman I’d have gone from 56^th to 23^nd on the bike.  Seems hard to imagine I’d get that much speed improvement and I don’t consider myself a really strong cyclist yet.  Is that number gain on flats/downhills so a hillier course would negate the difference?  I’d say I’m only in the bars about 75% of that course, and my speed is a good 1.5 mph slower than a training TT of the same distance on a relatively flat course.

This is in preparation for my yearly plea to the finance committee for a tri-bike this Christmas!

The answer has a lot of variables.  I don't have a power meter to be exact for you, but my pace seems to be perhaps 3mph faster on my tri bike than the same effort on my road bike...but I'm refering to riding my road bike like a road bike...on the hoods.

I have some triathlete friends who train and race on road bikes with aerobars.  When they are in their aerobars they have a very low torso.  This seldom works out well for people, but for the 2 guys I'm thinking of it works well.  The problem is that you will usually have a 72 degree seat tube angle on your road bike.  So you are sitting quite a bit behind the bottom bracket and all the other bike dimensions accomodate that.  And your leg to trunk angle will be somewhere around 90 degrees on a road bike with a typical aggressive or sporty fit.  So lowering your torso 18" on to your aerobars with no other changes puts you at a hip angle that's similar to when you are standing up and touching your toes!  It makes it hard to breath and hard to generate full power.

The statistic that states a tri bike is 2-3mph faster than a road bike is predicated on the assumption that you would have this problem when putting aerobars on your road bike.

If you are like the friends I mention who ride well on their road bikes with a flat back and have aero wheels for their race bikes...then the only advantages a tri bike would have is the aerodynamic benefits that result from the aero features of the frame and the aero features of the time trial handlebars.  My guess is that this would be at the most 1 minute over an hour.

So if you want a more definitive answer, I will need you to post pictures of yourself on your road bike when positioned on the aerobars.  Then I can eyeball how close you are to having that flat back position.

Thanks Jeff, I'll try to get some pics up.  My setup is most definitely not aggressive - it was fit for my half last year with an emphasis on comfort.  I've stayed with it since it is really comfortable and I actually feel as good in the bars as the drops.  Shifting is a pain given the terrain around here, but that's life.

Keep in mind that my ulterior motive is to convince the Finance Committee (aka my wife) that I really need a tri bike!

I'm going to go with no way on that one.  I would say that if you are in a bad aero position on your road bike with aero bars and then switch over to a great aero position, you may gain 1 mph...maybe.  I probably see 1.5 - 2 mph gains from my fit road position to my TT position.  But I mean from sitting up to down in the aero bars. 

I joined the run group.  I'm going to do as much as I can in the next week or so, but I have a bunch of company this weekend and a bachelor party and wedding the following week.  I'll be in San Diego starting the 12th, so that's when I'm planning on starting.

I'm talking about going from bad aero road position to a TT bike.  I get about 1-1.5 mph going to the bars from the hoods on my road bike.

Work with me on this, we can afford a new bike but there's a long list of silly things she thinks are higher priority - like a dishwasher, new clothes for the kids, more dinners out...  Mainly kidding, but I am trying to convince her I may actually keep doing this crazy sport and that 2k for a bike really is low budget.  She still thinks I went over the top spending 600 for my road bike!

Stay as safe as possible during that bachelor party!