GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 44)

KASIA -

Well done on the groin recovery! Ahh, the recuperative powers of the young!!

You're hardly behind at all in your running. The 35 minutes is the important part for now; less so is total mileage. Once you get the groin behind you and emerge from the recovery week, aim for a 40-minute run as your longer effort. I hope that will be next week for you, just so you can get back on your schedule asap. If you are ready to go by Monday, say, then look at another 35-minute run mid-week and then the 40-minute one on the weekend. And if you only did 30 minutes mid-week, that would be fine too. Your ideal goal for the three weeks following this one is to get your long runs up to 50 minutes, so it would be 40 next week, then 45, then 50. That would put you in line for your next recovery week. Sound like a plan?

Now, beyond that, in answer to your questions I think you will want to stop your long runs at about 55 minutes, maybe 60 if your body is handling it. According to your current pace that would leave you a bit under the 6.2 miles, but not by much at all ---- nothing that adrenaline can't solve come race day. And as I think I said a couple of days ago, right now you are already at the sprint distance of 3.1 miles, so if that was your goal race, then the next 11 weeks would involve a fair bit of speed work to round out and fine-tune those 3.1 miles.

As for the bike, you'll probably be okay if you peak your maximum long ride time at 1:45. You will DEFINITELY want at least two rides of 1:30 in there, given that Rage is hilly is even a pretty decent cyclist will take 1:15-1:120 to do a hilly 40km in a race. So 1:30 is a minimum, 1:45 would be even better. But again, it's a build from here to there (3-4 weeks out from Rage), so don't even think about 1:30 yet!

Finally, there will (or at least should!) be some brick workouts in there, where you will do a ride and then a run right after it. A goal would be something like a 75-minute ride and then a 20-minute run, done as close as two week s before Rage. And all I'm talking about with these ideas is the olympic, which is what you are focused on; things would change radically for the sprint!

And keep being kind to the groin. No going down to the sand pit at the local high school track and working on your long jump!

KASIA again -

Are you figuring that your background is Team Sports? That's how I viewed it.

At any rate, I would not take those values as the gospel. It probably represents some sort of ideal, but people's individual histories, and their access to things like a pool, and where their love really lies, will have a lot to do with how they allocate their time. I put those there mostly to get people thinking about how a "pro" might view relative strengths and weaknesses in newcomers.

But if you are doing each of the three disciplines twice a week, that is great. We all have to do what works best for us, or we'll go nuts in short order. If work and other matters constrain you, then you are maybe best with a balanced plan in which your modify the times according to what fits in with the rest of your life. As for a bike-emphasis plan.......I guess it would depend on how emphasized the emphasis is!

SHAUN -

See what I just wrote to Kasia in the shorter of the two posts. And to that I would add that for you, coming from two areas of relative comfort, the emphasis you have on the run is not out of line. What is missing in Ms. Lidbury's article is (1) how much experience there needs to be behind a person in order for time-spent to be considered "background" (i.e., does it have to be quasi-competitive?), and (2) what happens in the case of someone like you, relatively comfortable in two areas?

So, 45% is not out of line --- barring injuries, that is! You'll have to keep a close watch on that, of course, but one of the great things about triathlon is that when you're laid low in one area, you can just focus more on the other ones. I'm ticked that I hurt my shoulder two days ago, but at least between now and whenever, I can just work harder on the bike and the run and the lifting.

Finally, I cautioned my daughter a few days ago to go easy on the foam roller, which she is using for an ITB problem. I've been there before with ITB and rollers, and I know how easy it can be to roll hard enough and often enough to actually cause bruising to the tissue. And it's not just ITB, it can be any soft tissue. With rollers, more is not always better (especially for the first few sessions on a particular body area).

LISA once more -

Eek! I just saw your post on scheduling....but I have to leave now and can't comment further.

Later?

ANNE -


Hey, ol' faithful -- you're conspicuous in your absence! Everything okay??













Edited by stevebradley 2010-01-22 7:43 AM

Hey,

Just feeling sorry for myself.   Everybody seems to be going great guns with their training (despit a few recent setbacks) .   

The cold isn't holding me back now but on top of that I have had some gastrointenstinal problems for a couple of weeks (really sore abdomen; can't eat ANY food or drink even a sip of water without burping and belching; not heartburn - doc thinks I got some bad food; am taking some homeopathic meds and seem to be getting back to normal, but will get ultrasound just to make sure everything is good.    Did my first yoga class in a couple of weeks yesterday, and it seem to help as well. 

Re your post on the %'s, I would have said my background is biking with strong emphasis on the gym - core and strength.   So when I started, although I didn't run or swim, I designated swimming as my weakest discipline.  I believe now I can say running is, and I know that is where the race is won, and what is keeping from getting there (in the longer distances).   My strong biking and somewhat OK swimming let me win races in the short distances, despite a pathetic run.

My %'s for 2008 were :  Bike -44%; Swim - 37%; Run -19%
My %'s for 2009 were :  Bike -44%; Swim - 33%; Run -23%

I'm thinking I should aim for 30/30/30 this year but I know I love to ride and ride long, so the bike will probably still come out ahead.   What do you think?

Next Monday is 26 weeks out from Muskoka, so I have been working really hard this week to get healthy again.   I need to start getting consistent again in my training.   

FYI, I have put ALL those race sites you mentioned into my race folder.   Starting to make alot of the Ontario races look kind of boring.  

Thanks for looking for me.. 

STEVE,

One more thing to add to previous post - thought I/we would not follow a generic plan initially - I know my required volumes and intensity for all disciplines (based on last years volumes);    Created using formulas from Marc Evans books using  a 2-4-6 step up.    However, not sure if I should use them or have you tell me what volume/intensity I need to do each week for the cycling.   For the run volume/intensity I will go with the Running Room program for the next 16 weeks (starting Monday).   The swim volume I'm OK with and will continue with coach.   He will actually start giving me weekly workouts come April.   Then I would load up the Silver 12 week Intermediate Olympic plan from BT (HR based) to take me to the Muskoka race.    Or maybe I don't even need to do that????  if things are progressing well come April.    I remember what you said about Muskoka being longer than olympic distances.    Can you tell I'm still unsure.     

I never reached my projected run volume last year; after going so crazy in April-June it sort of fell by the way side and come August we moved onto canoeing and other non-tri activities.    I would say that is my big priority.   

Thanks.  

I was thinking about this too, and was a HUGE fan of the gym spin classes because they were so brutal.  I felt like I was really accomplishing something by doing them.  This past year, however, I cut them out all-together in favor of my trainer, as I found that when I actually ride outside, I don't train like those classes.  I think (for me) that the tri effort is much more controlled, with the goal being consistent, managed effort throughout the entire session.  Climbing out of the saddle is avoided unless necessary, it's all about a level power output.   The spin classes started to resemble roadie efforts which were characterized by high-energy bursts then recovery then burst then recovery.  

Hey everybody! Hey STEVE,

Sorry haven't been very active lately. It's been a busy week for me despite it being my recovery week, and I've been suffering from a bad throat ache the last couple of days. Trying to make a full recovery, cause on sunday I'm running as a pacemaker for my mum on a particularly beautiful 17k race course, apparently very hilly http://www.fimdaeuropa.com/percursos.html/>
In the meanwhile, I have a difficult question for you Steve, especially as I recall you said something about never listening to music on your workouts. I sometimes do, sometimes don't. I was toying with the idea of using the music to improve my rythm, i.e. to stick to my ideal cadence. To that end I will ask my brother, who is more versed than me in the world of music software, to make me a playlist where the BPM is constant, at 90 per minute. But here's the question: should it be 90? Is there anyway I can calculate my ideal cadence?

Hope I'm making sense in my lunacy.



Edited by Hepeoc 2010-01-22 5:46 PM

I appreciate your post Steve. This makes sense to me as well. My goal this year is to train along the lines of how I will be performing. This is why I didn't go back to a masters swim group this year, the swim sets just didn't seem to match how I should be training.

Steve,

Cool, that makes sense regarding the 2x workouts. I do come from a team sport background, so you got that right   I just wasn't sure if I should be making the bike rides longer/more frequent or if I should be adding another workout. But I got it I'll shoot for the run times you gave as well as the bike rides.

Thanks!
Kasia

Sigh.  It's Friday.  No workout today. 

It's amazing how you get to a point where if you are not doing some sort of training on a given day, you  feel all out of sorts.  Been walking around all day with a feeling I've forgotten something, like I'm walking around with my fly down.

ANNE -

I'm glad you've resurfaced, but sorry to hear that you are still less than 100% in the health department. I sure home the homeopath meds work, and that the ultrasound isn't necessary! Keep us posted - maybe burp twice if you're feeling better? (I apologize for that --- but we'll see if I apologize enough to delete it before posting this!)

This business about % training time is proving quite interesting, and I've found myself thinking about it more than I would've initially expected. In my case, though, the thought shave drifted quite differently than yours, in that I've wondered if I should swim only 1X a week in the off-season, just because I never seem to improve enough to justify all the time I spend in the pool. So while you're contemplating 30/30/30, I'm thinking something like 40/40/10/10 (BK/RN/SW/Strength). I doubt I will do that, but the shoulder scare a few days ago just got me thinking about it - like, it's not as if a lay-off from swimming, if necessary, is going to adversely affect my performances come race season.

I think you can argue it several different ways -- emphasize what you love....or what you are strong at.....or where you need the most work. Do you think you can go around in circles on this topic? I think I can!

What I am learning about my gender peers as I age is that (1) many don't have terrific swims, and (2) lots of them cannot run well any longer. So, I feel that (1) I can get by with less-than-stellar swims, and (2) I can gain back a huge amount of ground on the run. That my bike is strong helps lots, too, and if I could just get my head around these concepts and actualities, I might be heading in some intelligent direction!

I dislike the pool, but am passionate about open water swims. I love running, but have to be careful that I don't hurt myself. And unlike you, I am not wild about bike training, especially going long. Part of this is because I'm always by myself, and part is because I have a fairly lurid history of flats.

But I digress! You can certainly try the 30/30/30 apporach.....but my good money says that you will stray away from it and hit the bike as hard as you can. On top of that, you feel strongly that the run is a weakness and your big limiter, so it makes some sense to put as much time into that as your body (and I guess your head, too) can handle. It is terrific, though, that you once considered the swim as your weakness, but have worked your way through that to make it fairly strong. Huge hallelujahs on that accomplishment!

ANNE again -

I think it's sweet that you're 26 weeks out from Muskoka and already feeling mushy about it. Love at first sight!

I'm still waffling around scheduling thoughts, and I can do this forever and a day. You may have noticed that I'm about the only person who who has not posted a proposed race schedule, and that's because if I posted one I'd have to post about eight others. Seriously!

I mention this just because while Muskoka and Peterborough and maybe others in the Trisport series have appeal, I can't/won't commit to them yet. I guess things will really click into place when the USAT rankings are finalized, which should be soon. My goal there is to be USAT All-American Honorable Mention, which requires being in the top 6-10% of the age group having done a minimum of three USAT-sanctioned races. To make a long story short, two weeks ago I was 47/514, figuring I was safe. Then I dropped to 48, while seven below me were eliminated - 48/507. Then another guy bopped ahead of me, and so for this week I have been 49/507 -- the second to last HM person. I have had three seasons of very close calls, real "bridesmaid" performances; one year I missed it by 0.0127 of a point. (That's something like walking an extra 30 seconds through aid stations in a HIM!) This year I had three weird things happen to me at three separate races, in total maybe costing me six minutes of total time -- enough to make up about half a point. Grrrrr!

ANYHOW, if I make USAT AA-HM, I will likely go heavy in Ontario, racing in the US just enough at the start and finish of the season to give me a handful of races from which the top three can be factored for USAT points. I'm very tempted by John Salt's Three Race Challenge (Welland HIM, and Cobourg and Wasaga olys) -- not that I can win anything, but just to see how I stack up against the true studs and studdettes. And as I've said before, there's Musk and P-boro....and Ktown, a sweet race. Gravenhurst? Oughta do it! Bracebridge? Why not! And I had a blast at Toronto Islands in '07, although the tri was changed to a du due to water temps that had plummeted overnight and practically hypothermalized 20 kids competing in the provincial championships. (Have you heard that story?)

Onwards!

STEVE -

Interesting comments you make about the spin classes and now they differ from more controlled race efforts that are characterized by a level power output. I used to wonder why I spent time killing myself with the Spinervals videos, until.....

In about March '06 I tore my mensicus, and for various reasons it was recommended to let it heal on its own. (And it took a while to confirm everythoing on MRI, as even though the cost is covered by the provincial health plan, it is an elective procedue so the wait is long.) So, I went through the season doing aquabikes, and I quickly learned that's it's really easy to push the bike to the outer limits when there is NO RUN TO DO AFTERWARD!!!! So I was doing stuff on the bike that I never figured I would do - could do - in a race setting, and much of it was characterized by NOt being controlled and NOT riding at a basically level output.

The take-home lesson from this was that I learned I had gears that I didn't really know existed -- or, rather, that I left in puddles underneath my bike after a Spinervals session. From there it was trial-and-error to see how far I could still push the bike and be able to run fairly well after it. Some of the races in '07 (11 gri, 6 du!!!! ) were a bit frantic on the run, especially early in the season when I didn't have things worked out too well. But I ended up being a better triathlete because of the mensicus tear, because it led me to push the bike harder than I thought possible during races. I guess it was all about getting the FEELING of what race-bike-speed is like, and what it takes to generate that sort of effort -- sustained, but with bursts, and able to walk the edge enough to allow a decent run tagged onto it.

So, maybe your time spinning will yield mega benefits further down the road, especially in shorter stuff -- definitely sprints (there's a reason for that name, by god!), possibly olys and ints. Keep the faith!

STEVE,

You ARE a fast runner and a fast biker too!   I understand where you are coming from when you talk about making decisions on the races you will do.   

You made some good points about reducing the swim time - I actually thought about that too, although I couldn't go to 1x per week.    I use the swimming as sort of therapy for running - like to run first then swim - it really seems to help.    Plus I like the way I feel after swimming - a real sense of overall physical 'wellness'. 

So, how many hours of cycling do I need to be doing starting next week?   My original plan had me at 114 km next week, which is doable but I would have to do 4 bike sessions; I'll do an occasional 50+km ride on the trainer, but generally cap them at 30-35.   And I haven't been consistent with the cycling so not sure if I should start with less.  

Thanks.

I used to do spinning classes several times a week before I started tri's and that is the only training I did in the winter for the first couple of years.   Based on what you have said, I'm thinking maybe that's what enabled me to be so strong, and ride so hard on the bike, pretty much all out, and love it.    However, last year when I sort of on the edge of overtraining and hurting myself I remained cautious (controlled) on the bike and felt that my overall run was better when I did my 1st olympic.   Time wasn't great but the run felt great.   What I would like to learn to do is put the same race effort into my run as I do my bike.  

ARTHUR -

Welcome back! I'd been worried about you! (Sometimes it's like herding cats, trying to keep you all together!)

Hey! Major mojo to your mom on Sunday!

As for cadence, 90 is tossed out as a kind of magic boundary value, meaning that 90 or above is highly economical. I'm not sure how to determine what is ideal foa ny one given person, as it seems as if it would require lots of testing and re-testing and cross-testing and calibrating results with variables such as terrain and weather. So, I just go for 90!

If you're not at 90 now, don't hurry to get there. I mean, don't try to nail it on the next run. I think it was Tracey who asked about this a few weeks ago, and she was wondering what to do when she hits 90 -- go higher, maybe? My advice was to work at sustaining it, which is something I'm STILL working on! On any given run it takes me a while to get to the 90 -- kind of like the locomotive of a long freight train, taking a while to get up to speed. Once there, the goal is to sustain it for, well, however long the run turns out to be. (THe exception to this is really long runs, where it just isn;t tenable for me to keep tapping out that cadence for 90-180 minutes. But I can now do it quite comfortably for 10km, and probably 15km if I wanted. As for 21.1km in a HIM, however -- nope, not yet!

Music might help you, but I've found that once I'm there it becomes my default postion, and I only check every 10 minutes or so to make sure that I'm sure. And my check is just a 60-second count against my watch, which sometimes is shortened to 30 seconds if I find that I'm at 46 or 47 at that point.

Helpful, any of the above?

MARK -

Well, that's the crux of it all -- to race fast you have to train fast. At least part of the time, anyhow. Except for really gifted types, we triathletes need to have some idea of what it feels like to swim and bike and run fast, or elae we will never-ever be able to magically conjure it up come race day.

It's interesting that you didn't find your masters swim group challenging enough, as the impression I have is that most masters groups will be able to accommodate the afster or harder-working types. Are ylu finsing that you're able to get that extra oomph into your solo sessions?

I read today that Quad Cities is sold out, seeing as how it is the only qualifier for sprint worlds. Was that one you were hoping to do......or maybe even managed to sign up for before it closed out?

Hi,

Cycle class comment:

When I'm training to run faster, I usually include a weekly speed session with either strides, intervals, fartleks, whatever (sometimes alternate that with hills)

I was thinking of the cycle class as a weekly equivalent for the bike while doing the long controlled stuff on the trainer.

Of course, I'm only doing sprints now and I think that makes a big difference.  I already know I can do sprint distances - I'm trying to get  "less slow".

Denise


Edited by LadyNorth 2010-01-22 9:55 PM

Ugh, woke up yesterday with a sore throat, congestion and nausea. Left work about an hour early, came home and laid around the rest of the evening. Still feeling crummy this morning, so no run. May try to get to the pool and sauna after my son's baseball practice, as sometimes that helps when I'm congested.  Found out that the HM I was planning on doing on 2/13 was sold out (despite the fact they had there were still 99 slots on their website), and too late to sign up for the full and switch to the half. So my official 12 week tri training schedule will start week after next.

Now, I'm getting a bit confused about a couple of things. I was planning on doing one spin class a week as my cycling, than one day on the trainer or outside if possible. Hoping to get some long rides in with my husband as he trains for the MS 150 (but he is kind of a fair weather rider ). I guess I was just hoping to gain a bit more endurance and speed from the spin class.  Now I'm not sure.

And I've joined a masters swim team and was hoping to start that in the next week or two. Planning one day a week with the masters group and then the other day in the gym, working on drills. MARK, was it the fact that you felt you needed more drill work and that wasn't really being done with your masters group? Or that you just didn't feel like you were getting much out of it? Guess I'm just hoping for a more structured swim one day a week that wasn't so boring as swimming by myself at the gym. I'm sure part of what you get will depend on the particular coach that day. I will also have the option of swimming indoors and outdoors with my masters group ... it's been in the mid 70s with beautiful blue skies the last couple of days and an outdoor swim in a heated pool would have felt great.

Now, I'm off to baseball practice ... so happy to have baseball season back!

Tracey,

I was SO excited reading your post to Steve about how well your swimming went and was happy that those tips worked for you.    Just keep at it and set yourself some short term bridge goals each week and you before you know it you will be amazed at what a great swimmer you are!  

Thanks Cathy, 

Didn't enter the run program but I checked it out thinking about loading my own tri training program and realized I don't have to input the entire 26 weeks at once.  

Although I have my weekly volume goals already created for the year, I don't create the actual workouts until the week prior.   So I just finished inputting Week 1 and used the data from the Runner's World for the run portion.   I will load it up Monday morning.   Discovered that I can copy the plan and then edit the workouts for week 2, 3, etc. etc.    My training days don't change so that makes that part quite easy and I can just cut and paste previously logged BT workouts for my bike and swim.  

Thank you for pointing this out.   

Following is a link to an article on 'the most overlooked area for women'.   Thought it was interesting and have read other articles saying similar stuff, plus hearing it from various and sports med practitioners.  

http://www.coreperformance.com/daily/movement/the-most-overlooked-area-for-women.html?utm_source=Publicaster&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Type%20an%20email%20subject%20line%20here...