Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED (Page 49)

Looks like your not short on the motivation for the race tomorrow!  The troops are always in our thoughts, especially those that give everything so we can have freedom at home.

Good luck in the race, I'm sure with the milage you have been putting in you will do great!

Awesome inspiration Dirk.  You have absolutely prepared well for this day, all that's left is to execute the plan.  I'll absolutely add your nephew's buddy to my prayer list - the troops are always on that list.  Can't wait to read your race report.

I am done with my race......OBVIOUSLY!!! since I am not still running around the city of Columbus Ohio.  I haven't had a chance to start the RR yet.  I hope to get it done tomorrow morning sometime, then you'll be able to put yourselves to sleep during your lunch hour's. 

In short, I didn't BQ!!!!  I missed it by 20 seconds!!!!!!!  I'll let the RR do explaining.  Right now I think I am going to get some much deserved sleep and hopefully better sleep than last night.

I hope your sleep was great Dirk.  I know those 20 seconds hurts, but that's no joke improvement from your last mary, so well done.  It's an accomplishment to hammer through that distance totally on plan - your execution seemed like it was spot on, which is no small task.  I'm feeling guilty right now with my Garmin totally unused and I could have sent it to you for this race.  You WILL BQ at some point.

Don't tell my PT, my Dr, or my girlfriend.  But I had my first run today.  After swim practice (I did most of the practice with the team one-armed...just seemed to do about half the distance...), I decided to try an easy run on the treadmill.  I immobilized my arm and trotted first at 5.5mph, then at 6.0, then at 6.5 (close to my normal).  It felt very good and easy.  My HR wasn't in the low 130s like it used to be, but it was my first time.  HR was in the 140s.  It made its way up to 149 at one point, then I focused on relaxation and drove it down to 145.

Did 5 miles and feel pretty awesome.

Honestly...I know what the PT and doctor will say and I'm sure they don't want you running, but if you really did immobilize it, you're good to go.  They just don't want you swinging it around.

I got on the bike for 20 miles today and boy are my legs out of bike shape!  If did feel awesome to go out there and feel the fatigue in my legs after 45 minutes though.

Good news is that I was able to drop about 10 lbs while in San Diego.  I'm down to about 186 now and feel really good.  I want to be able to hold this through the holidays and I'll feel much better when spring comes.  

Let me explain so that you don't have undue concern for me.  I'm now out of the sling and am OK to move my arm.  I'm allowed to lift it to horizontal if I want (but I really can't). and I'm allowed to lift up to 1 lb. (but can't even lift my arm by itself).

Running would be uncomfortable, but not damaging.  The discomfort comes when the elbow passes behind my hip. 

The reason for the orders not to run is only for fear of a fall.

So the amount of danger I'm in is determined simply by my likelihood of tripping and falling.

My greatest risk of a fall comes when walking stairs, carrying something in my left arm (so I can't grab for balance), and when walking in the shower or on the pool deck barefoot.  I'm not pooh poohing the risk of a fall because I'm as motivated as anyone to have a healthy race season next year as well as getting back in the weight room and undoing all this muscle atrophy!

Jonathan, that's an incredible weight loss!  This is the time of year to do the weight loss.  If any of us desire weight loss for next season, now is the time.  Training will feel flat for a while, but it's OK to feel flat and it works just fine when the training program consists of high volumes of easy intensity. 

Since I can't lift I will naturally lose muscle.  If I don't lose weight by also cutting calories then I will gain an equal amount of fat.  So I plan to drop about 10lbs myself.

Thats what I was going to say.  So obviously you have to make that choice.  Honestly I think the swimming would be more of a concern for me.  I know how I would be as soon as I got a little cocky with myself and felt good, I would start trying to use that arm a little while in the water.  Simply put, I couldn't keep from using it if I was in the water, so I wouldn't even go near the pool.

And I agree Jonathon, the off season will have the least impact on next years performance if you are doing the weight loss thing in the winter months.

On to me.  I am already giving thoughts to a spring marathon to try to BQ.  This may very well be a ridiculous thing to consider because of my propensity to drive myself to train.  The winter has my daughter swimming (for her last season ever) and my drive could make me want to run and lose sight of her and the rest of my family.  I am going to discuss this with my wife, because she is more important than a race, but I would like to hear from you guys as well.

Thoughts?

Dirk, I'm not going to tell you not to train for a marathon, and I know you and your wife will come to the right decision for your situation.  But you asked for our thoughts, so here are mine.

I'd say this is such a critical time in your daughter's life, and in your relationship with her, and that you should be sure not to miss this opportunity.  Before you know it she'll be gone - I don't have to remind you it was yesterday you brought her home from the hospital.  I lost my dad 9 years ago, and I feel so blessed that he took time from his busy life to always be there for me.  He was always my football coach and biggest supporter and critic.  He never missed a hockey game even if it meant his plumbing work suffered and he had to figure out how to get things done on his own time.  He had his own hobbies and interests and I understood that he needed that time for him, but it was clear to me that me and my brothers and sisters were his top priority.  I always cherished him for that and as I grew older and had my own kids I know how hard it was for him but I also know that my self confidence and to a large degree my personality is attributable to the effort he put into my life.

Now if you can find time to do what you need to do to be ready for another marathon while still fully investing in your girls, I say go for it and don't hold back.  But be realistic with what that will take.  I think for this season of your life you should be sure to give everything you can to those daughters. That's time you absolutely will not regret having spent.

Dirk.  Obviously you don't want to sacrifice your relationships with family on the alter of athletic performance.  But that doesn't mean you have to make an either-or decision.  Here are a couple of suggestions....

If you decide to go for a Spring marathon, can you do most of your running early morning before anyone else wakes up?  The flip side of that coin might mean going to bed before they do, missing valuable time.

The other idea, and the reason I asked if you had another marathon on tap, is that you have the fitness right now.  How about you look for a marathon somewhere in about 3 weeks?  If a discount airline serves your area, you can look at the cities that are a direct flight away.  For instance, Southwest serves Nashville, and for about $120 I can fly round trip to Austin, TX.  That might open up your options and allow you to get that Boston qualification without any extra training sacrifices.

Balancing training and family is always a tough task.  I still have a hard time increasing the minimal amount of training I get in without a little guilt building up.  Which is why I'm currently stuck at 30 miles a week running.  I am still trying to figure out how to get up to the 50 mile mark, and now that my Son's football is almost done I don't have the 2 hour practice window per day to drop him off and go running.  I am going to have a hard time with the shorter days and less time to increase the amount of running I need.

Dirk: as for the quick turnaround Jeff suggested your always welcome to jump in my car for the trip to the OBX marathon on 11-13-2011!  Of course I am only doing the half but I can wave as you fly past me!!

To all,

Thanks for giving me the perspective I need.  I really already knew what the answer to my own question was but it helps to reinforce things some times.  As I said before, I have a strong inclination to work hard, pretty much always have had, and train beyond what I should in the interest of my own goals rather than the interest of my family.

All that being said, I like you suggestion best Jeff.  (To satisfy all involved.)

As I write this, Lis and I had been sitting down discussing whether or not I should run the Indianapolis Monumental marathon on Nov. 5.  She was looking at it to determine how and where she might be able to get around and see me run. (I have a pretty awesome wife that way. Running around strange cities waiting for her husband to run by, only to run to another place for a 1 minute glimpse as I pass yet again.)

She is also worried about whether I would be recovered enough for that race.  That race is nearly a full 3 weeks away and I know I would be recovered completely (and I told her the same).  I am not worried about a recovery, however, I am worried about how I would train with such a small gap.

As of this moment my legs are still sore, quads and hams are simply muscle sore and I will recover by Friday there.  But, my low legs are particularly tender and I won't expect a complete recovery there until Saturday or possibly Sunday.  I am currently planning a short 3-4 mile run on Friday to rest my legs a little and obviously it will be an easy run.  I need some help trying to plan a training regimen for this kind of time frame?  A little help here brothers.

And last but certainly not least!!!  Thanks again for helping me keep my perspective on life channeled properly! 

Dirk.  We all know that family comes first.  But don't minimize the importance of challenging ourselves and striving for goals.  It's how we are built and it affirms our manhood and ultimately helps keep you a balanced and healthy man.  Your wife seems to understand your drive and for that you are very blessed....and you seem to be doing your part to keep it from getting out of control.

I can't say that there is a lot of institutionalized wisdom about how to double-dip a fitness peak.  But that's probably really because there's nothing special involved?  The idea of racing again soon is that the work's been done and there's not much else needing to be done.  So the main goal is not to de-train.  And as you know, I think the current emphasis on taper results in a lot of de-training.

I suggest you swim today.  Swimming is by far the best balm for sore and shocked legs that I've found.  Also, see if you can scrounge up a 5 gallon bucket or something suitably deep and fill it with ice water and stick your lower legs in there up to the top of the shins for 15 minutes.  Don't pull out early.  And you can wear 2-3 pairs of short socks to help keep the feet warm.

Those 2 things alone, if done today, will make tomorrow's test run orders of magnitude better.  Oh, take an Aleve today too.

Then, between now and race day on Nov. 5th...how about this:

If Friday goes OK.  2-3 miles Saturday.   2-3 miles Sunday.  If all systems are go, then every day is a basic running day.  By basic I mean 5-8 miles at an easy pace (8:30?)

Saturday the 29th (or that Sunday) 12 mile run and other day off. (more miles are OK that day only if feeling great)

The next week, basic running days like above. Then the day before the race do 1 mile and lightly stretch.

Obviously that will all change if the lower legs don't feel sturdy.

But you don't need any more building long runs like you did previously.  The point is not to detrain while maintaining fitness and every day running of 5-8 miles will give you about 30 miles from M-F plus the weekend run of 12 on the 29th makes that a week in the low 40s but with nothing long or hard enough to dig you in a hole.

That's just my best guess at what will work best because it's not something that I've got a lot of experience with.

Also, a race-day suggestion....Do you make a point to ingest a lot of caffeine on a race day?  If not, you should do it.  It's been proven to help.  150-200mg about 1 hour before race start is what I recommend.  But if you haven't built up a tolerance, it can leave you feeling upset in the stomach and unpleasantly jittery.  So if you aren't used to caffeine like this, try it a few times on training days first.  It really will help you to the tune of 3-4 minutes in your marathon.

And another bit of advice.  Get your new watch ASAP!

Good luck!  Is this 2nd race a decided deal yet?  Or is it just an idea at this point?

I love the idea of a peak double dip.

I wasn't trying to nuke the idea of training, just that this is a particularly important period of life for father/daughter time.  I'm in the same boat with my oldest just starting HS and realizing I have only 4 more years to torture him before turning him loose on the world!

The watch story is that his watch died with a few miles to go, making accurate pacing impossible for last few miles.  I'd add two comments on that one:

1.  If you can't get a watch before the race, ask and we'll get you one for the race.

2. Maybe you want to plan on a 3:13 or something pace to have a little wiggle room.  Does that make any sense Jeff?

Yes, that makes sense...but it will be highly dependent on the individual.  I will say that if he's physically capable of a 3:15, he is physically capable of that 3:15 if he's a minute down at 20-22 miles.  But emotionally, or mentally capable is a different thing.

And there perhaps aren't very many people percentage-wise who have the super-guts to do that, even if physically capable.  So, if he builds a 2 minute buffer it is safer.  Now course topography may mean that some miles are slower and trying to hit mile 20 at a 3:13 pace when miles 15-18 have gained altitude may not work well.

I would say that if he does build a buffer it's only by 3 seconds per mile, or it is done after mile 10.  Otherwise, the early race pacing may do damage to the end part of the race.

So that's a complicated way of saying: "Yes I agree" but with cautions attached.

Thanks Jeff, makes perfect sense. 

I was also thinking about other strange things like a course which comes up long if you're using GPS for pacing, or the watch dies again (could happen even to a new piece of equipment).  And based on my view from way over here, Dirk is absolutely at the pointy end of the mental toughness curve.

The course for the Indy race looks plenty fast.  Very little elevation change.  Perhaps the worst 'climb' comes during mile 26 with about 40 feet of gain?

But that last .2 will be pleasantly down hill and will allow you to regain 15 seconds or so from average pace.

So try to be 45 seconds ahead of pace at mile 24.

I don't want to throw a wrench in anyone's spokes here, but what are the chances that they will require a percentage UNDER the qualifying time based on how many people qualify?

Yes...if you can't get a watch by then, we will definitely get one to you.  That's NOT a problem at all.

I may not be up on the latest happenings in the running world, but I believe that among all those qualified it's a first-come-first-served registration process.

A friend of mine qualified 2 years ago, and ran last year....I believe registration filled up online during the first day it was open.