grandhavenbill's group - FULL (Page 5)

awesome transition tips!  thanks! 

funny.  i've been breathing out of my left on the main but during c/d out of right.  since doing this for a little while now the right side is actually feeling more natural...hmmm... i guess that's a good thing

 ssssshhhhhh.  please don't tell my asics but i'm really starting to enjoy the pool.

Hey everyone, hope the weekend is going well.  I took the day off to chill.

Quick question regarding the swim:   Do most people dive into the water?  Do you run in and dive? Are you sometimes already in the water before you start?  Just wondering b/c I have never been able to dive and am somewhat scared of it.  I will force myself to learn it if I have to I guess! Thanks!

JeanMarie,

There are three basic swim starts: a beach start, an "open water" start, and a pier start.  The only one of these that would involve "diving" would be a pier start and these are not real common.  Even with a pier start, you can just "cannonball" into the water and not really dive.

Beach starts, at least around here, are by far the most common.  Basically, everyone stands around on the beach, sometimes up to your ankles/knees in the water, until the gun goes off.  You then run/walk thru the water until you get to a depth where you can effectively swim.  There is also a technique called "porpoising" that I have yet to master.  Hard to explain, you can google it for some good video examples. 

For open water starts, like Kona, everyone swims out to a designated spot and floats/treads water until the start. 

I'll post re swim strategy as we get closer to the actual race dates.

Hope this helps, let me know if you still have questions.

Hi Bill and everyone,

I have a nutrition question. I've been religiously entering my info in my log, but not really doing much as far as a nutrition program. Just entering everything I eat forces me to watch my intake (for the most part).

My question is what is a good balance for how I get calories?  For example, last week was 51% carbs, 30% fats and 18% protiens. I don't know much, but I'm pretty sure that's not right.

Next question is weight. I'm fast approaching the point were I don't want to loose any more weight. Since September I've dropped from 189 to 169 lbs. I plan on asking my doctor this week about my min weight. Any guess on if I'm getting close? Any advice on what to do as far as intake when I reach the point when I don't want to loose any more?

Thanks for the input.

Also, the Masters swim program is great. In only two sessions, my stroke is night and day different. 

-Brad

In reply to Brad's question above re nutrition and weight loss:

I'm sure everyone knows these already, but just wanted to re-state a few important basics:

• The basic calorie balance equation:  if you consume more calories than you burn, the excess will be converted to fat.  Doesn't matter if you are eating only sugar free "snack-o's", chicken breasts, or butter by the stick.....
• One pound = 3500 calories
• There are 4 calories per gram of carb and protein, 8 calories per gram of fat.
• You must have fat in your diet to survive!!

As noted in a previous post, I highly recommend the book "Sports Nutrition for Endurance Athletes" by Monique Ryan.  I refer to it often and she recommends the following mix:

Carbs (grams per pound of body weight)

• 2.25-3 for workouts under one hour of moderate intensity
• 3-4.5 for workouts 90 minutes to 3 hours moderate/high intensity
• 4.5-5.5 for workouts 3-4 hours moderate/high intensity

Protein

• 0.45 moderate training
• 0.5-0.75 heavy training

Fat

• <0.5 moderate training
• 0.5-0.55 endurance training (over 4 hours)

As for your min weight, that really depends on your body composition and should include a measurement of your body fat.  For males, 5% is the recommended minimum, 9% for females.  At levels less than this, body functions stop working properly....

Pay attention to changes in your body, complexion, mood, etc.  I experienced an interesting phenomenon when my volume started to ramp up while training for IMCDA last year:  all of the hair on my arms and legs fell out....I immediately consulted a dietician and we discovered that I was not consuming enough fat.  I started enjoying olive oil and adding flax seed to a lot of dishes and it all came back within a week. 

As far as intake when you reach your goal weight, Jan hit it right on the head:  start taking in more calories.  Noting the equation above, you will need to find the balance that works for you and it will change as your activity level increases with training.  At the peak of my IM training last summer, I was up to about 5500 calories per day (and loved it!!).  I'd be buying new pants every 2 weeks if I tried that at my current activity level.....

Hope this helps, let me know if you have additional questions.

Nutrition et al...

For me it's VERY important to take in as many calories as possible.  Due to some extra medical issues, in addition to training, I need the extra calories to keep the weight on and not get super skinny.  My weight hovers around 155-160 and I am 5 foot 10.5 inches.  There are days when I am very religious about what I am eating.  However, there are days when I don't really care and make up for the calories.  But they are usually "bad" calories.  If you look at my log for yesterday you can see what I am talking about.  For me it's all about caloric intake and what I am  burning...that seems to be the key for me.

Also...in regards to Bill's granola recipe...small, healthy, high calorie snacks throughout the day like that seem to be good for me and keep my energy up as well.

Hope you all had a great weekend and have a great week of training!

Drew

Thanks everyone for the nutritional info. I of course am always looking for the quick fix. I sometimes need to be coaxed into doing the right (not easiest) thing.

Bill - I will get the nutrition book you've referenced. I know if it will be good for me. I appreciate the numbers you gave for proteiens, carbs and fat. I will no doubt pour over them the next few days to make sense of it all. As I said in one of my first posts, I'm an engineer, and I will meticulously, and often times needlessly pour over numbers....

So, it turns our parchment paper is NOT the same as wax paper!!! Does anyone know the nutritional information for about 1/4 sheet of wax paper? I made Bill's granola last night, and in my never ending wisdom I thought "Hmm, wax paper, that should work." Nope. I now have a great tasting, highly nutritional and slightly waxy tub o' granola.

yup,  running off the bike is VERY (insert expletive here) odd, different, at least for the first mile.  last mile was awesome and FAST!

thanks for the tip on adding a couple bricks!

Ah yes, I'm always asking myself "who's legs are these and where did mine go" making the transition.....For some real fun, try a redline run/bike/run duathlon!  ;-)

Interesting your note on the last mile.  Once I get my legs back, I almost always feel better running off the bike (at least for awhile....) which I'm 99% sure is because the legs are used to the (hopefully) high cadence.

Right on Drew!  I highly recommend "grazing" or, as my dietician (and fellow endurance athlete) calls it, the "ELMO" (eat less more often) principle.  The idea here is to break up your calorie consumption into 5-6 smaller meals throughout the day.  It will keep your metabolism steady and prevent those "oh s**t, I need food NOW" moments that result in overeating 99.9% of the time.

A couple more important basics to add to my list above:

• Try to include protein with every meal.  This helps slow digestion (your body works harder at digesting protein) which leaves you feeling full longer
• It takes about 20 minutes for your stomach to send the "I'm full" message to your brain, so slow down and take a breather before you go back for seconds.  Don't know about you, but I can do a heck of a lot of damage in 20 minutes if I'm really hungry......

Happy Monday all!

Bill et al...

Small meals throughout the day is the best way to go...I also never try to eat anything after 7pm or 8pm.  Then it just sorta sits there and gives me hurt burn...OUCH!

and the dumb question of the day...  do i stretch off the bike like after the run? 

followed by the dumb question for tomorrow......wait for it...... do i stretch out of the water like after the run?

 six weeks into my program and i'm asking this now?

thanks!

 Amen Brother Jan!

I have enjoyed reading the recent posts on nutrition. I am not at the point of worrying about prime performance but it is good to have a framework as I find my fitness groove.

It may have been -16 degrees outside, but the pool felt great today. I lost count of distance today but focused on my number of strokes as was mentioned a while back. I average 13 strokes per length so about 52 strokes per 100m.

I was able to get it to 12 while focusing on the glide between strokes. This was great advice and will really help me to improve. It assists with endurance as well as pacing. Thanks!

I need some advice on wetsuits please.  here's the deal.  I'm already registered for two tri's that should be wetsuit legal.  rental @ the local tri store is 50 bucks a pop.  do i buy or rent?

if i buy, what kind of suit should i be looking for, entry level, middle of the road, etc.  even if i buy a midroad suit @ ~300 dollars my break even point is 6 tri's. 

any thoughts / rec's 

thanks!

Yep, me too.

Here's where I am so far. I am leaning toward a full instead of sleeveless. I will be doing a fair amount of swimming in Lake Michigan, so water temp can be pretty cold. Also the added buoyancy sounds good.

I am also leaning toward buying one. I like the idea of training in the wetsuit. Seems like putting it on for the first time on race day (or maybe the day before) might not be the best idea. 

There is a ton of information in the gear forum. Search for wetsuit and there are a bunch of people asking the same questions as us. The problem is, everyone has a different answer. 

-Brad

To triathletes, discussions about wetsuits and bikes can get as heated as talking about politics and religion at work.....

And then there are the options......sleeveless vs. full, one piece vs. two, price range, etc.

At the end of the day, the most important factor is FIT.  If you can, go to a shop that carries a variety of brands and have someone that is trained in proper fit help you. 

Like shoes, wetsuits are all cut just a bit different and a certain manufacturers suit just may not work for you.  For example, I am 6' tall but have a very short inseam (30".  All of the one piece suits that I've ever tried are just too short in the torso.  So, I wear a two piece full suit made by DeSoto.  Have to say that I am a HUGE fan of DeSoto gear.  Emilio makes a great product and fully stands behind it.  OK, commercial over....

Sleeveless vs. Full?  The water temps you will be swimming in should play a major factor in this decision.  Obviously, a full will keep you warmer.  Some folks say that a full makes it harder to get a full arm extension in the swim.  In my opinion, this is more a factor of proper fit.  I have no issues with my suit.

One piece vs. two?  Again, it's all about fit here.  I'm a bit biased, but think a two piece suit provides the ultimate flexibility in sizing and is actually easier to swim in because the top and bottom move independantly. 

If at all possible, you definitely want to do some wetsuit swims in training and practice getting out of it in T1. 

Hope this helps, let me know if you have additional questions.

thanks for the replies.  Bill is your rec buy vice rent?  i think this makes the most sense $$ wise in the long run.

"To triathletes, discussions about wetsuits and bikes can get as heated as talking about politics and religion at work....."

i noticed over on ST that you ride cervelo or you are a loser who can only get to kona via lottery, then they REALLY pile on you.  hell, i'm just happy to be pissed off that i have to get up at 4am  to go swim, bike or run.  i also notice that lots of em' that do the yapping hide behind the internet in doing so. 

thanks!

Hey John,

Sorry, I never answered one of your original questions.....Yes, if you think you are going to be doing this awhile, I'd recommend buying a suit.  Worst case, good used suits are easy to sell.

Oh yes, that OTHER site.....the Cervelo Mafia runs that thing.  We certainly have our personalities here on BT, but wow!  Just for fun, maybe I'll take a pic of my IM tattoo and post it there while poking the "are you really an IM if you didn't race Kona" hornet's nest.....  

Happy Friday gang!  Hope you all had a great week and are doing your best to stay warm.  It was a balmy 4 degrees here this morning.  Thank goodness for Lake Michigan keeping us "warm," it was minus 30 in Chicago, ouch!!

During my 6 week post-op check, my ortho cleared me to start running again, woo-hoo!  It has been 7 weeks, should be interesting getting ramped back up....

Was just checking up on your logs and everyone is doing GREAT!  How are you all feeling?  Any soreness/aches/pains?  Perfectly normal!  Keep stretching and make sure you are taking a down week (lower volume) every 4 to let your body acclimate and heal.  Remember, you only get stronger when you are resting/recovering.....If you are following a training plan, this should be built in. 

So what's on tap this weekend?  I'm doing a "long" trainer ride tomorrow and will attempt my first run since surgery on Sunday.  Hoping to get ramped back up quickly for a late March half mary.   Come on spring!!

HEY EVERYONE!  It seems our fearless leader has called for the first grandhavenbill group run in celebration of the ok to strap on his kicks.  Bill, let us know what time you are stepping off Sunday and maybe a few of us can join you for a mile or two from wherever we are.  Count me  in from Houston.

35 mile ride and a 55 minute (~7mile) run on tap for the weekend.  I coach my sons 3 yr old teeball team, tomorrow is the last game...AMEN.  This in and of itself has been a workout!

Group run, I love it!  How about 2:00-ish EST.  With the power walking I've done, I'm hoping for an easy 5 miler, but after this morning's 2.5 hour "drainer" ride with some "really fun" interval work, not sure how that is all going to work out....Sadly, will be doing my runs on the dreadmill 'til spring.   I LOVE to run outside in the winter, but cannot risk slipping and undoing my shoulder repair......

Ah yes, "organized" sports with the little guys.....I was never brave enough to coach, good for you John!  My son is now 7 and I'm getting leaned on very heavily to start coaching soccer (even though I've never played in my life...).  Can't seem to talk him into swimming/biking/running.....yet!