Stickyrunner01's Group - The bus is FULL! (Page 5)

Dirk,

Thanks so much for the input.

Yeah, I was looking over my logs in detail, and I saw the enormous jump I made over the last couple of weeks.  I went from multiple weeks in the 2-3k range to the last few weeks in the 8-9k range.  Not only that, but in the last few weeks, my intensity was definitely consecutively up, which I don't think I've done before. 

I've never had any real injuries related to swimming before.  The shoulder problem I mentioned, it has only been a slight irritation every once in blue moon up until now. I am pretty sure that the quick increase of intensity and volume exacerbated the problem of my poor technique.  My lack of swimming during the time you mentioned was just me falling off the wagon because I had no specific goals and no plan so I didn't really feel all that motivated- so nothing to do with injury.

I just think I overestimated my capabilities.  Over the summer I was logging multiple 10k weeks without any problems.  I don't think I really appreciated the base I had created prior to that.  It's really interesting to go back and check my logs from the very beginning.  I started logging here at BT in February, which is just a few weeks following when I started tri training altogether.  When I go back to the first few months, I was swimming between 800-1000 meters as a single workout, at (what I would now call) a really slow pace.  Like now, I can't even imagine swimming "only" that distance at such a "slow" pace!  I actually was "safely" building!

Anyway, I just found that reflection to be quite interesting, and it made me really glad that I have logged every single workout since I started at BT, and I will continue to do so, and I encourage everyone else to do the same!

Strength training:  I lifted pretty regularly last winter (starting January). Once tri season began I pretty much abondoned it.  I started lifting regularly again (~twice a week) mid November (although I haven't lifted the past two weeks, aside from two days ago.)  As far as upper body goes, lifting routine has been same, not too much variation.  I do delts (shoulder press, lateral raises, both with dumbells), biceps and triceps with dumbells generally, assisted pull-ups, and the lat pull-down.  BUT, again, I can't say this is incredibly consistent, although this is another focus I would like to have in the next couple of months...

OH (sorry I know this is turning out to be really long!!!) but the question about whether I've had other shoulder related injuries.  Once upon a time (okay, 2003), I did slightly dislocate my shoulder.  The how is slightly embarrassing, LOL.  I was playing rugby (don't ask!) and was slammed to the ground, and my shoulder apparently popped out.  I was hunched over (in pain), and then it popped back in (pain went away).  Actually I learned later that this is probably what happened, I did not know at the time.  Anyway, to be honest I really canNOT remember which shoulder it was... but I do wonder if it's the same shoulder I'm having problems with, and if decreased flexibility as a result of the slight dislocation has something to do with it.

SORRY SORRY SORRY this was really really long!!!!  I don't know how to keep things short.

Name : BlindDave  Adam

Background : Not much of a sports person, have cycled for years as transport and for fun, After claiming i was going to get fitter one year My best mate deciced to do a 3k fun run, he completed it and wanted to do more he then found this website and wanted to do a triathlon. Now as my best mate there was no way i was going to let him do a triathlon and me not , i trained and we did 3 sprint triathlons last year   So thank you Sicone/Stav

Family status : Married with 3 kids (15,9+3)

Current training : Rubbish, After the last race of last season i wanted to have a break in training and due to the weather and work Ive not adjusted back into a routine. I work 4days on 4 days off with my work days being 6-15 hours with 2 hours travel by car or when the weathers better 3hours by bike.

2010 races  : 2 pool based sprints and the Mazda London sprint (ow) I really enjoyed the OWS in the london tri :D

2011 Races : none planed as yet but want to do 3 again with at least 1 being olly distance. i think i need to enter 1 soon to get some motivation :P

Goals : beat last years times in races i do again and complete the olly (beating Sicone of course  )

You're welcome.  I was hoping you wouldn't take my "snooping" wrong, I was just trying to help figure out what might be causing you the shoulder issues. 

I have a couple of thoughts regarding your lifting too.  To start with, I used to powerlift and my training got pretty intense at times.  Sometimes I would over do it there, as I have have done since I started running (5-6 yrs ago), so it happens to the best of us.  That's one of the great things about BT, we can watch out for each other and try to provide a measure of accountability to our workouts.

Anyway, When you are doing your shoulder presses make sure you are not pressing behind the head (hands behind the head).  This is the way I was taught years ago and I know now it is incorrect.  It essentially is causing you to over rotate the joint.  In my opinion the best posture for the presses is to very slightly recline your body, this can be done with a utility bench or your core, keeping your hands very slightly in front of your head.  Another way to picture this might be...if you can see your hands slightly in the periphery you are doing it properly, if you can't you may have your arms and shoulders to far back causing the additional stress.
Edit: I am guessing you are not throwing around 60lb. dumb bells but make sure you are not struggling with the weight at the end of your sets to cause a lot of arm  wobble.  More reps and lower weight wold be more important.  A set of 3x15 would be good.  Low reps and heavy weight equals strength/mass building.

Lat pull-downs, should be done in a very similar fashion.  As with the shoulder/military presses, I was taught to do them "arms behind the head" but after a while I learned through more experienced lifters how incorrect this posture is.  When you are performing the lat pull-downs you should have a similar position but obviously you can't use a bench to hold the position, you have to use your core.  There are pluses to doing them with your core, you will get a low intensity core workout and if you do enough of them you should feel it later if you're not used to having a strong core.  Make sure you don't cheat the reps either, keep your upper body as motionless as you can through the cycle.  This will allow a stricter focus on the muscle group.

Again, I hope I am not going somewhere where you already know about these things.  When lifting years ago I used to see these mistakes all the time by many, many people.

Now I am getting wordy.  LOL

BTW,  I don't do any weight training anymore.  I don't have time with all the other training and other commitments I have currently. I do hate how I lost my chest and arms.  BRAG ALERT!!!!  I used to have 16.5 inch biceps and boobs (muscle) big enough to need a sports bra when running (JK).  I was a similar weight, lifting in the 165lbs. class.  This morning the scale has me at 161lbs.



Edited by DirkP 2010-12-30 8:37 AM

Great to have you here.  What kind of work do you do that has you working such long hours?  When I read Stav's post saying you might not post until Thursday, I wondered if you were a firefighter with a more strange shift than they have here in the States.

If you have a shower at work yo might be able to use those long bike commutes as a big training tool.  Ride a decent pace to work and maybe mash the pedals on the way back home in the evening.  Just don't mash them everyday.

The question above is a good one, I do a ton of back/shoulder strength training and I did have a slight issue with my shoulder at one time while swimming.  I was really picking up on my sprint drills at the time and my shoulder (where the collar bone meets the shoulder) was very tender. I realized to at one point that I didn't so any stretching before or after my swims like I do for biking/running and other training. So now I'lll normally do a 200yrd warm up, moderate to fast pace then stretch primarily my shoulders at the shallow end for about 3-5 min. The shoulder issue is resolved now.  I have not upped my yards either, so this could definately be part of the issue. Maybe you could switch it up and work on breast stroke, back stroke? during your swims.  Good luck!

I think it is a good idea to change the stroke up.  It can help provide more muscular balance to the swimming muscle groups.  That being said, I don't do anything other than kick drills and freestyle drills during my workouts but I know I should.  Mostly because my knee won't take breast stroke kicking and rather than the fly, I would look like a flounder.  I really want to do the fly though.  I am going to try to get my daughter to teach this to me after her swim season is over.  fly used to be her best stroke and she still looks amazing doing it.

I'm a truck driver, there's no shower at work but as I'm on my own all day I'm OK to stink 

Thanks guys! This has all been quite helpful.

I'll try to engage my core the next time I'm doing lat pull-downs.  I do know about not putting arms behind head, and cringe every time I see someone doing that.

I find backstroke and breaststroke to be soooo boring but I think I'll put in a few lengths of fly.  I did include fly (something like 4x25, not consecutive) for like 2 weeks a few months ago, but then um I just went back to doing all free.


General question for all: Any suggestions for additional back strength training??

Jessica, if you don't mind, what does your strength training routine look like?  (specific exercises?)

Some good exercises I have used are weighted cable rows, "good mornings" and "west virginia sit ups."  The latter name I came up with by myself several years ago but basically they are leaning forward at the waist across a bench with your legs secured so you don't fall over and leaning down to a nearly vertical upper body position (hands across your chest or for additional weight hands behind your head) and returning to a horizontal position.  When starting these you should only do 2-3 sets of 8-10 reps.  Believe it or not these are pretty intense.  These will also work your hammy's and glutes pretty hard.  The key is to keep your back straight through the exercise.  If you do these right I guarantee you're gonna feel it.

Hey Samantha, I don't mind, right now I consider the INSANITY dvds I'm doing as my strength training.  plyometrics, no actual weights, it is all body weight resistence. LOTS AND LOTS of pushups, every kind of push up you can imagine, squats and lunges galore and high knees, etc.  these workout dvds cover all your bases but stresses on core and back stregnth.  I do not have the time to do weights at the gym but I have always found that "body pump" type classes worked best for me, another good dvd I loved is julian michaels 30 day shred, it is very similiar to insanity only turned down a couple notches.  the plus side is that not only am I getting my strength training in while doing these workouts, but there is intense cardio as well, which I can see the results from in my day to day tri training. 

good luck to you! I'm jealous, I do not know how to do the butterfly yet, but I am working on my dolphin kick and when I start masters in january I plan on focusing on that stroke.

 you are good to go then!!!

Sorry to hear about the injury, hopefully after some time off and some research into swim techniques you'll be back better than ever.

As far as the compression gear is concerned... I use it regularly, from compression socks, to shorts, to shirts. In the fall I referee HS soccer, play in a competitive men's soccer league and tend bar / wait tables. This causes me to be on my feet quite a bit in addition to the demands of training. I found that I was less sore after I purchased the gear, however, I am not sure if I felt better due to 6+ months of adaptation, or from the compression gear.

What are everyone's training plans for the weekend?

I have a 8-9 mile run scheduled for tomorrow followed by a 1.5 hr drainer ride on Saturday.  Then I am taking  recovery week.  I haven't taken any time for recovery since the 2 weeks following my marathon.  I'll need the recovery time pretty badly once I am done with this week

Sunday will be an easy 4 mile run followed by a 45 minute bike.  Everything will be low key, all next week.  I am actually ready to slow down right now but I won't until Sunday.

My plans:

I'll be on the trainer for 60-90 min tonight, probably a 5 mile run before working 10:30-11:30 tomorrow (NYE), for new years day, I will hopefully get a short run in and a 2 hour trainer ride during the NHL Winter Classic, before returning to work 5-11:30 on Saturday. Sunday I have a meeting at work at 9 am and will hopefully get a ride in during the day.

How about everyone else?

Monday is the official start of my IMTX season, and the structured plan I'm using starts off with:

M: 45 min. run
T: 1 hour swim, 45 min. run
W: 1 hour bike
Th: 40 min. swim, 1.5 hour run
F: 45 min. bike
Sa: Off day
Su: 1.5 hour bike

I'm thinking of moving the 1.5 hour run from Thursday to Saturday. At this point I don't need an off day and my chances of running that long during the week with my current work schedule is next to zero. Shoot, Tuesday's plan is looking questionable too.

I'm in for a world of hurt...I will probably do a light spin and a light run this weekend. Nothing crazy. I've got 20 weeks of crazy in front of me.

Edited by dhopman 2010-12-30 9:41 PM

Well, while I'm definitely a beginner in comparison to most of the group here, I'm looking to a 45 minute run/walk tomorrow and a 30 min swim and then a longer trainer ride on Saturday while watching some of the Bowl games. 

Tonight I felt really good after a 2.26 mile run/walk working on keeping a consistent pace throughout the entire run intervals. Hopefully I can keep working on that until I get to the point where I'm totally running.

@Dave- best of luck as you start your official training! Hope you can figure out the scheduling so that it works well

went for a run this morning, and later today Sicone is popping over to help me set up my bike comp

I'm planning on getting outdoors for a run today.  It's unbelievably warm here, 49 degrees as I write this.  Saturday/Sunday my husband and I are going to be traveling to visit our brother/sister-in-law. They live near the Deam Wilderness area south of Bloomington.  Will be doing some nice long day hikes.  

Have a great beginning of year everyone! 

Dave,
What plan are you following?  Is it here on BT?  If so I may take a look at it myself but I def won't be doing it until next year.  Will have to take a look at the max time spent in a week and decide if I would have time for that kind of training.  My wife and I were watching the Ironman Championships replay and she said something like "don't you want to do one of those."  I replied the the time for training would keep me out of it until our girls were gone.  Anyway depending on the training schedule it might be something for me to look into.

Angela,
All of us were/are beginners at some point, so feel free to ask whatever questions come up.  I certainly don't consider myself an expert after one year of training and racing.........I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express a couple times this year. LOL

Adam,
Good looking run!  The bike comp will help a bunch on the trainer over the winter months.  I used a trainer without a comp for about 2 months last winter and I felt completely clueless about what I was doing or where I was going with my training.  The good thing is that most computers are pretty affordable. 
I just checked last years log, I rode about 15hrs on the trainer without knowing how far or cadence or any other feedback.  Thinking about that now makes me thankful I have one now.

Yes, I'm using the BT plan more or less. I had to move lots of workouts around within the weeks, and consolidated the swims into fewer sessions, but the volume per week is the same as the BT plan. Here's what it looks like:

Week	Swim Total	Bike Total	Run Total	Total Hrs
1	1.67	3.25	3.00	7.92
2	2.17	3.92	3.00	9.08
3	2.17	4.50	3.25	9.92
4	1.67	3.25	3.00	7.92
5	2.50	6.17	3.25	11.92
6	3.50	6.50	3.92	13.92
7	3.00	7.50	4.33	14.83
8	1.75	4.00	2.75	8.50
9	6.33	3.00	1.75	11.08
10	2.25	3.50	6.75	12.50
11	1.50	11.00	1.50	14.00
12	2.00	4.00	2.50	8.50
13	2.75	7.08	3.67	13.50
14	3.00	7.50	4.83	15.33
15	3.75	8.00	5.50	17.25
16	3.00	9.50	5.50	18.00
17	2.00	4.75	3.25	10.00
18	1.50	8.50	3.33	13.33
19	1.25	5.50	2.17	8.92
20	1.33	2.17	1.42	4.92

There are 5 main blocks. Each block builds volume for 3-4 weeks then has a recovery week at the end. The third block does focus weeks on each sport. Week 9 is a massive swim week, 10 is a run week, 11 is a bike week.

The plan starts off at 8 hours, assuming you are starting off with a respectable base training/fitness level already. It ramps up pretty quickly, caps out at 18 hours per week, and the average across the entire 20 week period is 11.6 hours. I've got the entire plan built into excel if you ever care to see it.

After looking at Dave's training plan, I have a question for those of you who are (how do I say this gently?) of the more "mature" age group.  Notice, I didn't say old?  I'll be 45 next summer and have to be REALLY careful not to injure myself by doing TOO much.  The joints (especially my shoulders, knees and lower back)  just don't take the abuse that they used to when I was in my 20s.  I always feel like I'm on the edge trying to push myself, but not hurt myself.  Cross-training helps.

So, I'd love to hear from some of you.  How do YOU prevent overuse injuries?   

Jayne,
You are much more "mature" than I.  I am a mere 41 years old and will be 42 in September.  How did you make it to such a ripe "mature" age?  LOL.
My two cents on over training injuries: Over training is primarily from over burdening your body over a period of time.  This can be a short period of time based on your fitness levels.  If you are used to running say 5 miles a week and try to accelerate your training to 12 MPW from one week to the next, you will probably experience some type of injury.  Since you are just getting into this gig, I would definitely go slow.  You have all kinds of time to get the proper training in before your June race. 
I suggest keeping with the plan you currently have to increase your run/walk interval every 2 weeks.  Then a slow progression of upping your running base to around 10MPW over 3 runs if that's possible from a time perspective. 
Cycling is much easier for you to base build since it is not an impact sport. BUT, you still need to use caution when building.  If you can keep up with the 45 minute rides for another couple of weeks then hit one for 1 hr for a few weeks and keep the 45 minute ride you'll be in good shape.
Swim is similar to the run but definitely make sure you try to start out with good form or as good as you can get to start.  Use the swim links posted for technical information but don't get to hung up on the technique.  It will come slowly.  Just keep drilling.

Really part of the key is to make sure you get recovery time.  It is very critical to take a week to allow your body to catch up with all the fitness changes that are taking place.  I have not done this in the past and paid the price of stupidity.

Honestly, I think you might be best served to take a look at the "Original Sprint" plan that is free on BT.  I looked at this and, looking at your logs,  I think it would be something you should be able to work with pretty easily.  It's all done by minutes, which is fine.  you really don't need to focus on the distance anyway.  The plan is 13 weeks and you could work your way through it twice before your first race.

Dave,
Thanks for that information!  It actually looks doable for me.  But that 18 hr week scares me some.  If it fell in the wrong time of year for me it could be disastrous for me.  Storm season can really shake things up for me.  I am going to give some serious consideration to doing an IM in the next couple of years.  A HIM in DEFINITELY going to happen for me next year!!!!  If I can make myself wait that long.


I completed my 9 mile run this morning.  It was an amazing run.   I felt amazing all the way through despite the downpour I ended up running in for a few minutes.  Within about 50 feet my shoes were full of water and my socks were squishing for the remainder of the run.  This all happened about halfway into my run......when I was the farthest from my truck......Awesome!  I did know I was going to get rained on but I didn't think it was going to be that bad. 

Here are my numbers for this years training.  With today's run my training year is over.  It's been an incredible first year of triathlon training for me.  2 Oly's, 5k, half marathon, full marathon and a 4 mile race.

2010 totals
Bike:	135h 19m 08s  - 2372.53 Mi
Run:	122h 54m 32s  - 897.24 Mi
Swim:	65h 32m 23s  - 186396 Yd = 106 miles

BlindDave - I see you are a barefoot runner from your profile pic.  I just started with the Vibrams and am loving it.  I am starting slow like everyone has told me and just can't wait til I am running all my miles this way.

Jayne - I am the same age as you and I totally didn't know what I was doing my first year  As I result I injured my achille tendons and still struggle this year.  I have to  agree with DirkP...slow and steady wins this race.  This site has a lot of good plans.   I have put my husband on the couch to 5K plan and its just perfect!

michgirlsk - I do weighted cable rows/lat pull downs and assisted pull-ups.  The trick with the lat pulls and cable rows is to stick you chest out there like your proud of it and really engage those back muscles.  I see a lot of people not doing this and basically engaging only their arms.

I used compression gear to pretty much get me thru last race season.  They hold everything together while racing but more importantly I really think they helped me recover from race to race and training session to training session.  I am a nurse and have known about the benefits of compresssion stockings for years even before I was a triathlete.....

Dreaming80 - If I had to swim and then go outside in the winter I think I would DIE! In fact last May I had a sprint and the air temp was 39F.  It was warmer IN the water than out.  It took me all the way to mile 2 of the run to warm up!  The tri I have sign up for in 3 weeks is a 4K run - 3.5K mtn bike and and 3K ski.  I signed up for the mini sprint coz I am not sure if I am gonna like it.   The other 2 races I am thinking of doing this winter is a run up a novice ski slope,across the mountains  and then a snowboard down the other novice ski slope.   I do have to get reaquainted with my snowboard.  Its been 10 years!

I hope that catches me up!   Happy New Years to everyone! 

Edited by Seren 2010-12-31 12:45 PM

@ Seren that photo is from T1 @ my first tri so i was on route to putting on my shoes