Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - Closed Until Next Season (Page 5)

Well that was probably my longest blog post ever so things like that I'll forget. Plus the run split is only internally relevant to the course so sometimes I don't even think about it. If it was a track time I'd be like it was such and such. Anyway I ran a 38:16, it's a 6:11min/mile pace. The goal is to be 35:30 at Nationals on a flat course this year (was 37:30 last year). But this comes from having run long distance since I was in 8th grade. Barring the injuries that prevented me from pretty much doing anything my senior year in college my open 10k would have been around 32:30 (possibly lower, but I can't reasonably argue much more without having done it).


Re DP: I don't recommend a footpod I just recommend a watch (although the footpod wouldn't hurt I suppose, it just isn't strictly in line with my philosophy). You'll count for 30 seconds taking random samples on your runs (i.e. do one a few minutes in to adjust and then just whenever you feel like taking another sample check up on yourself). Your foot (preferred right or left it doesn't matter) hits the ground and starts the clock and the count at 0. Then next step you take with that same foot is 1. You're looking to be at 45 at the 30 second mark. It can be a little higher than that if you're more comfortable with that turnover rate. The goal here is to eventually get your legs to feel the rhythm and not need to rely on an external check. Distance running is in so many ways about the rhythm in your legs and the different variations in burning/pain to dictate pace at various points in the race. Our pre-race pump up chant in college was implemented by my roommate and me in homage to Cool Runnings "Feel the rhythm, feel the rhyme, get up now it's cross country time. Jewell Running" (I ran at William Jewell for DP who will know the school).

I'm very much into being in tune with what your body is doing and saying as an athletic endeavor and rarely rely on anything outside of a watch/clock. I've actually implemented more workouts this year totally dictated by what my body is saying that day in terms of time goals.
Anyway let me know if you have more questions on the run video. If you want to do a tape yourself I can break it down for you and make suggestions (I did this for John at the very opening of the group). I'll get you more specific instructions on the shots to take if you want to do this.

Here's a quick video of me running this morning. I got about 5 miles in. http://youtu.be/H23bCGYElj0

(at least that's how I feel)

You probably would get more benefit from a more detailed video so let me know what you would want me to shoot and I'll get something recorded in the next few days. Thank you.

6:11 is impressive on the back end of a triathlon in my book.
Keep at it, that kind of pace will be a great weapon for you as you move to the higher levels of competition in your future.
Well done!

Hmm... it looks like you're holding your arms out a little too much to the side.... but considering you're a cute little penguin I'll let it slide (no pun intended).

You can shoot the video outside or on the treadmill doesn't really matter (treadmill is probably logistically easier and nicer to break down, make sure you're on 0% incline). If you can get 30 seconds of video from the 4 quadrants, straight on front, straight from the back, then a view from both your right and left side. Essentially if you picture yourself inside a square we want a camera to be facing you from each side of the square (I'm a visual/spacial person so that's the best other way I can describe it).



Re Dominion: Yeah 6:11 was not too shabby on that particular course. Going into it I was expecting to be around 40 minutes looking at last year's results to be honest. But I came out with one of the fastest run times for the day so I certainly can't complain. The top pros did it in like 33:30 so I'm still getting spanked by them, but I won't be even ready to race professionally realistically probably until I'm 27 (another 3 years) so that's just how it goes some times.

Did my second sprint tri in Maine this a.m. - as bad luck would have it, when the start gun went off, I started running into the water and as I was about to dive under, I smashed my right toes on a monster rock I didn't see (lake swim), wow was I in pain! I couldn't kick with my right foot at all and when I kicked with left only, I wasn't going straight, so I abandoned kicking and focused on stroke. Did pretty well (for me) finishing the 1/4 mile in 8:24 (my stop watch time). Bike was very hilly, at one point going up a ski area road which was the hill I was dreading, but got up it okay. Run was okay but I had a lot of pain, couldn't push off with my right foot well, so had sort of a hobble-run, but I didn't do much worse than I would have without foot pain. Finished dead MOP, as expected, and finally took off my shoe. I was afraid to look at my toes and the toe beside big toe (2nd toe) was broken. Had someone there look at it but he said docs can't really do anything for toes like that and just bandaged the cut and buddy taped it to my 3rd toe. Been icing it all day but it's really swollen and I can only walk on my heel at the moment. Argh! So frustrating to do something so stupid. If I can't run for awhile, I'll just focus on my biking. I have another sprint in 3 weeks and expect to be ready to go AND to *walk* into the water this time!

Oh, a good thing I found out from this sprint was wearing earplugs helps me in the swim. In all my training swims, I would get dizzy for 20-30 seconds after standing to get out and I would have to stand still and waste that time (like I did for first sprint). My sister recommended ear plugs and gave me an extra pair of hers and today no dizziness at all! So that's a good learning point for me and I'll continue it in the future.

Sorry to hear about you toe, but congrats on toughing it out and getting the race finished.
It can only get better after that.

John- what a great job of dealing with adversity and muscling through. It sounds like your results turned out to be pretty good too so even though you were in pain, you didn't allow it to beat you.

On my race last week, I entered the beach for a little warm up and at some time felt something on my foot. I didn't think anything of it but found out after the race that i have about an 1.5" cut across my big toe and pretty deep. The big difference is that mine didn't hurt at all and didn't affect my performance at all (evidently I don't land on the bottom of my big toe at all).

One thing for many age groupers like us (or at least for me) is the race is often about as much about the fight and battling through as it is is about finishing in a certain place. While you always would like to improve your time and standing, sometimes when adversity hits, the race becomes battling the adversity and it sounds like you "won" this one.

I made the mistake of signing myself, hubby, bro in law and nephew up for a 10k on the beach on Saturday. The race started shortly after high tide so not much beach to run on, started 30+min late (aka even hotter out ), computer crashed so unable to get the results, and ran out of water at the finish. I realize that it's just a little run put on by the park and rec dept but it's the 7 th annual- they should have their act together a little more. I look at it as more of tough mental training vs a race. It was really hot out, and everyone had to dig a little harder in the sand. It made me realize how my mental edge has slipped over the last few years. I bought the book that was mentioned in an earlier thread and plan to read it while on vacation next week. I hope to get my ability to push through adversity back.

On a happy note, I found some people to train for my HIM with. We went on a ride together today and had fun. We went out for breakfast after and I was approached by a guy who inquired "how much you got into that bike.". I have never been on the receiving end of bike envy!

Hope the toe heals up quickly! My husband broke his yesterday while surfing and didn't end up running the race!

Paula

Jesse,
I watched your running form video and I have a question. On my last few runs I have counted my RPM's at various stages during these runs. I am consistently coming in around 86... so a little short of the 90 you advocate. What I don't understand is that it seems to be the same whether I am running a "slower" pace on a long run or pushing a faster. I don't understand how this works exactly, it would seem that the harder I run the more turnover I would have. Also any tips for how to get that 86 up to a 90+ ?
Thanks.

I apologize for my woeful absence from the boards the past week. Pretty worn out from training and some extra work I've been doing so we'll see if I can get caught up.

John:
Upon reading your post and commenting to my girlfriend about it (we ran on the same college team) she decided to call you out since apparently she broke her toe and just kept training on it just fine. I on the other hand think it would be a particularly painful experience since I know there isn't much you can with a broken toe as far as realistic splinting and stuff goes. Anyway it looks like my girlfriend is tougher than the both of us on this one


Everyone else, stop hurting yourselves this is supposed to be fun! Ha. I'll have to see if I can find the picture where I crashed on the bike, had road rash all down my right side and a freely bleeding right arm and still ran the 10k at the end of the olympic during my first year of racing... it doesn't appear to be on Facebook so I'll have to start digging through external hard drives.


Chris:
The advocation of 90+ rpms isn't mine originally. It comes from my current coach/helper (the recruitment program is an odd setup compared to traditionally coaching) Barb Lindquist during a clinic after the USAT nationals race last year. From there the advice actually comes from (which she says freely) Bobby McGee who was her coach and is a renowned Olympic level running coach. So I'm merely repeating what I've been recommended, adopted and now advocate (just to be clear I'm not trying to be the originator).

The easiest part to answer in your question is why your pace doesn't change from 86 rpms to something else when you run slow or fast. First, this is actually a good thing to some degree because post-adjustment to the higher cadence it won't be anything unusual. The answer to this however is that your stride length, i.e. how far back your foot goes from the body during your stride increases from slow to faster paces. People often mistakenly try to advocate "lengthening your stride." This is simply a misunderstanding of what's going on here because stride length has to do with the amount of power put into any particular pushoff from the ground.

As for bumping up the stride frequency the best way to do it is to just go faster. Ha, but seriously don't over-think it.

I remember when I was negotiating the higher frequency initially it felt like my stride length was freaking tiny, like I was taking baby steps. So this kind of feeling is normal. What's probably going on is that you're trying to get 90+rpms while putting the same amount of power into your pushoff which isn't what we want to achieve initially. Whatever kind of feel you're used to dial it back a bit (which will possibly feel like you're not doing any work at all) and try increasing your frequency at that dialed back rate. What you're aiming to achieve is first frequency and then pushoff power since running speed can be considered as the equation

Force of pushoff x stride frequency = speed

(I hope there's no chemists or physicists in the crowd here 'cause you'll probably get mad at me for the kind of unit you'd end up with in that equation if you want to be a stickler).

The idea will be that you can achieve the same speed you've been running with less power in each pushoff because your frequency of pushoffs increase. Let me know if that clarified things for you or if they're now as clear as mud.

Jesse,

Thanks for the explanation. As a non-runner (and someone trying to get better in this area), this really helps.

I have troubles, even, counting my RPMs...haha.

As I was reading the explanation, I was reminded of something I've learned about swimming. Over the winter I picked up Sheila Taormina's Swim Speed Secrets book and also attended one of her swim clinics. In her book, she advocates a similar "faster RPM" approach to swimming.

Her focus is on power and propulsion...not length of stroke. Her philosophy is that as you increase the length of your stroke (as many swim systems teach) you risk slowing your turnover and could actually get slower. On the other hand, by increasing your turnover you risk decreasing the length of stroke would also slow you down. So, her philosophy is to increase propulsion (which will improve the power generated with each pull) and increase turnover to get faster.

That may sound confusing...but it sounds very similar to what Jesse is explaining for runners.

Now, hopefully I can do a better job of applying what Jesse is teaching than I did with what Sheila taught.

I have no doubt many people could run on a broken toe, and they are, indeed, tougher than me! Swimming and biking are fine, I just can't
run (or refuse to accept the pain of running on it!) I am giving it a full week and then trying a jog and see how it goes. In the meantime I'm
getting extra biking in. The bike shoe is the most comfortable/pain free thing I can wear for it since there is no foot flex! After biking last night
I just kept my bike shoes on around the house because it felt better than being barefoot! :-)

John

Thanks for the explanation. I'm with you on the baby steps thing. The more I have been working on it, I find myself trying to take those quick steps just to get the foot down to count it and try to get to 90. I get what you are saying though and will keep working on it without trying to over-think it.

On the other hand, I believe that the counting helps me focus on form and what I am doing. The counting is pretty natural for me as I have never been the type who disassociates while running. My mind is constantly doing math. It may sound crazy but I am always checking my splits and how far ahead or behind I am from the desired pace, how far I've ran, how far to go, what percentage I've completed, etc. I know that may sound strange but I guess that's how I pass the time.

David:
I try to do what I can as far as explanations go. I may end up doing a follow-up to the run video to put into video some of the things we've talked about that you guys had questions about. Like I said before a lot of it isn't my own ideas, but I do certainly re-tell or explain things differently than they were probably explained to me.

As far as swimming is concerned I've also been recommended that you have a little higher RPM count than a traditional pool swimmer. Main cited reason however was to avoid getting beat up in the water from other swimmers (this coming from a current male pro) as he suggested that if someone was really doing a long glide phase with their arms out in front of them forever that he or another pro would end up "chopping" their arms during the swim effectively messing up their swim speed. Competition is brutal, eh?

John:
Yeah I don't know about running on a broken toe. One thing to keep in mind however is that we were both collegiate athletes at the time she broke said toe and ran on it. You do some overall pretty stupid things as far as training through injuries go during school competition seasons because they are short, furious and there's no time to waste recovering if you can make do. She now however doesn't do much of anything in the way of exercise (aside from exercising her mind) so I highly doubt that she'd currently run on a broken toe given the option, ha.

Chris:
I'm a mathematician so on the one hand I totally get checking in your stats all throughout a run. However, I do just try to relax and enjoy the motion on long runs where I don't have to push the pace. Too many days where I'm going fast; to not just slow down, relax and enjoy the run for what it is. Keep working on that 90 and it'll eventually set in as its own new gear. You might be surprised at your speed gains simply from efficiency here in a few months.


Everyone:
What's everybody's race schedule look like for the rest of the season? DP and I will be in Omaha next weekend I know, but what does everyone else have going on yet?

Here's my schedule for the rest of the season:

July 28: Sprint Tri in Rhode Island (Crabman)
Aug 3: 10K run in Maine (Beach to Beacon)
Aug 11: Sprint Tri in Rhode Island (Wild Dog)
Sep 7: Sprint Tri in Massachusetts (Hyannis II)
Sept 29: 1/2 marathon run in Rhode Island (Rock n Roll)

Not making any of them "A" races, just doing them all to gain experience. I kind of wish I had signed up for an Oly distance for the
end of season instead of the Sept 7th Sprint, but I already paid $80 for that race, so I'm going to stick with it.

My schedule:

July 27 - Sprint Tri - LaGrange, GA
Aug 17 - Local 5k
Sept. 7 - Olympic Tri - Clark Hill, (Augusta) GA
Sept 8 - Sprint Tri - Clark Hill, GA (Yes this is back to back races..we'll see how this goes)
Sept. 29 - Olympic Tri - Melbourne, FL - Battle of the Bridges
December 7 - Savannah Bridge Run 10k


Edited by Dominion 2013-07-12 2:57 PM

You guys are make me looking conservative on my race schedule here compared to your jam packed race schedule. Maybe its just my being tired of racing every weekend post school, who knows. I only have 5 schedules races for the whole summer the first of which got canceled (which you already know). All Oly's. I do some 5k and 8ks during the fall cross country season and race at least a 5k during track season, but yeah you guys are racing a bunch more than me it looks like.

Now I'm just a slob apparently, ha. Maybe I'll work some more minor races into the schedule next year, hmm.

Races to go for me are
July 21st - USAT Midwest Regional Championship - Omaha, NE
August 10th - USAT National Championship - Milwaukee, WI
September 1st - Hyvee 5150 Championship - Des Moines, IA

Then like I was saying I'll do this charity run for my school that we put on every year that's a 5k course I designed around the campus in late September/early October, race an 8k at Emporia University whenever that happens during Cross season and maybe do some more stuff in there, but it's all just kind of test/training as far as I'm concerned since that's back into base season for me. Just keeping the legs (and mind) fresh.



As an aside and it is a ways off so to speak, but I'll be taking a 1-2 week downtime post Hyvee where I'm going to really dig into getting a lot of content out like the video series on designing your race schedule, possibly the next running form video and who knows what else. Since I'll only be doing minimal amounts of working out I should be able to set aside adequate time to get some real work done that will hopefully benefit you guys.

Edited by funkj25 2013-07-13 2:41 PM

Here's how my schedule shapes up:
7/14 - Shawnee Mission Triathlon - just the swim leg of a relay...I'm with some really fast guys so if I don't slow them down, maybe they can get me some iron!
7/21 - Omaha Triathlon (maybe I'll bump into Jesse there) - Olympic
8/31 - Lake Quivira Triathlon (a tiny, local sprint tri in a gated community near my house...just a tune up)
9/08 - Nations Triathlon in Washington DC - Olympic (my "A" race)

There's a possiblilty I may jump into another Olympic distance here in the Kansas City area on 8/18 or 8/25 if time, health and budget allow. We'll see.

I am adamantly opposed to running only events, but I am thinking of doing something called the Pilgrim Pacer half-marathon on 11/09 to help me focused on improving my run.

DP,

Hopefully it'll be easy to spot me post-race with another podium place (age group again, doubt an overall podium at this one). I should have my new Funks Protein Pancake shirt on that I just got ordered (supposed to arrive the 19th so fingers crossed for having it in time for the race). I'll talk to you pretty much all you want post race, but pre-race I tend to be pretty reserved and just mind my own business. A little chit-chat is okay, but it's just ritualistic for me to try and relax and go through my warmup as usual, etc.

Anyway I hope the race goes well tomorrow morning. Another hilly venue. What do you think of Shawnee Mission versus Omaha in terms of hilliness of the bike course? I remember changing gears like nobody's business when I did Shawnee Mission a few years back.

I'll be in Omaha by Friday night. My boys are doing the kids tri on Saturday. Like you, I'm very introspective before the event. I'll look for you although your likely to be half way back to KC by the time I finish. Once again I'll be wearing my purple/black team in training jersey.

Each course is unique, though I'd say that Smp would prepare you pretty well for Omaha. The thing with the Omaha bike is that it seemed it was never flat to be able to focus on steady smooth power... It was always climbing or downhill. I'm pretty eager to see how I feel as my bike fitness is much stronger now than a year ago. I was not well prepared last year so I think some of my bad memories are skewed by my lack of fitness.

Ha don't be so pessimistic about your racing times. It's all so personal in terms of development and I'm sure I won't be anywhere near leaving by the time you get finished. The nice thing for you will be that you're able to compare last year to this year for your times at Omaha. I'm entirely new race venues this year so its hard to definitely say I've improved in any given race to some degree.


One thing I've learned from just watching the 40+ guys cycling past me (so the guys who know what they're doing and have been on a saddle for decades) is that you change gears more often than I originally wanted to do and the cadence is also higher on the bike than I think most people realize. It feels like you're really doing work when you're trying to churn out that huge gear, but you're just slowing yourself down most of the time.

Anyway I'm sure I'll still see you after the race. My race gear is black/red, same one that's in my profile photo currently. It's seen better days.

Well, since no one has posted in a week, I figured I'd post an update on training. I was able to start running again on toe after 8 days off, have done 5 runs and it still hurts, but I can tell it's getting better and I'm not making anything worse. On the biking front, I bought a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine trainer and wireless cadence/speed sensor and have that working with TrainerRoad software. Wow is that a tough bunch of workouts! I did the hour long FTP test and almost threw up on the basement floor. I realize now how much more I could push myself on the bike. My effort level was not even in the ballpark of the workouts I'm now doing with the FTP feedback on TrainerRoad. So I hope that pays dividends in my sprints at the end of this season. Swimming wise I have been taking open water tri swim clinics and getting out in the rough ocean learning how to swim with currents, swells, and lots of chop. I've swallowed a lot of salt water, but I am much more confident that I can handle any conditions that I might face in my upcoming sprints in the ocean. I have two sprints that aren't in protected bays but open ocean that has the potential for surf, waves, etc.

that's what I've been doing. Have a sprint a week from today and looking forward to it because it is flat, flat, flat! What has everyone else been up to?

John

It's been a busy week this past week for me getting ready for the Omaha Midwest Regional race that was today (squaring away work stuff to be ready to leave). Met David after the race when he finished.

Like I was telling him post race, he passed by me on the run while he was heading out and I was heading in. I was just getting around a guy I had been chasing down for about 2 1/2 miles (starting out 200-250m ahead of me just reeling him in) and David shouts at me "Hey Jesse make a move!" I just started smiling and almost laughing, I couldn't breathe. It was a great little moment.

Anyway so obviously I was racing in Omaha this weekend looking for another national qualification since I never received my qualification e-mail after the last race. Ended up one upping my expectations and placed 3rd overall instead of just 1st in the age group. Fingers crossed that they get it sent in time as the AGN race is in 3 weeks...

We'll have to see how David fared within his age group in the next few days (or if he already knows he can of course tell us) as the results aren't posted yet.

Great Job, Jesse. Very inspiring.

Glad you posted this. I'll be getting a trainer for the off-season and next year. I'm trying to do my research now. How did you decide on the Kinetic Road Machine? It seems like a fairly high-end trainer. Anything about it you don't like? I've seen them online for $339. Where did you get yours and how much did you pay (if you don't mind me asking)? I just want to get a good trainer that is going to last me. Any advice or info appreciated.