Manatee Express Group - Full (Page 5)

Exactly! I am in great shape, just trying to keep in the zones for training purposes. To stay in zone 2, I have keep at a fast walk basically. I feel that is counter productive, but maybe it is just a change in my thinking that is needed. My run today is for 40min, and I feel fine running in zone 3 or even dipping into 4, but I should be doing it in 2 (my approx zones are in my training log)

My run today is for 40min, and I feel fine running in zone 3 or even dipping into 4, but I should be doing it in 2 (my approx zones are in my training log)

Ideally you would want to stay in zone 2, low zone 3. The reality for those of us who run slow thats really hard to do. I was pretty much in the same position as you in 2003 when I decided I wanted to do a Half Marathon. My normal long run was 4 miles and I had 3 months to get to 13 miles. My best run pace at that point for 4 miles was 10:30 per mile. I began doing the Long Slow run and it built up my distance 10 % per week till I got to 12 miles. I then did the race at an 11:25 pace. All that said, when I started the long runs, I had to slow down to increase my ability to go further. I would start my runs slowly and try to run even or negative splits through the run. My HR always made it to zone 3 by 25 minutes and I just try to stay under 75% of max (144 in your case). If you ran 80% of your run in zone 2 you get the base benefit, especially if it doesn't get too high till the end of the run. The benefit of this strategy will begin to show when you hit 5 miles. You will see you become able to go a little faster while maintaining the same HR. I think you probably want to have your long run up to 8 miles b4 your Olympic Distance events and you will be pleased at how quickly you get there. The stronger your run base the easier it becomes to manage your HR.

On another note about HR's. There are other factors that push HR up besides exertion. 2 key ones are body temperature and stress level. If your running indoors, your HR will go up more than running outdoors when its cool. Conversely, when it gets hot, you will have an even bigger struggle with HR. No advice on stress, except get plenty of rest.

Key points - Start EZ on your long runs. Try to keep your effort even or even negative splits. Dont worry if you go up to mid zone 3, but delay it if you can.

You can run faster on your other runs, but its important to build up your base with the long slow one. I hope this helps.

I experimented with my HR on my run today. I wanted to see if I could keep my long run in zone 2 based on my estimated HR ranges. My zone 2 ends at 128. I ran the majority of the run at 129 to 130. So I couldn't do it either. My pace was 10:50 out and 11:50 back into the wind. My HR was consistent and my perceived exertion was very low. I could speak easily throughout the run. After stopping my HR fell to 50% of max with 90 seconds. I think I got the benefit of a zone 2 run but technically I was slightly above.

I calculate my max off my highest HR achieved in my last race. That was 180 (4 beats higher than 220 - age). Is that the right number? Not sure but its close. Anyway, don't get hung up on you can't go over the number. Just set a target rate and when you get more than 5 beats over, slow down.

Another factor to held keep HR down is hydration. I forgot to mention that earlier, but if you can carry a water bottle with you drinking it on the run will help.

What motivation and disappointment at the same time. You are all doing great! It's very inspirational to hear about new shoes, bikes, great runs, HRM etc. Unforunately, I've been fighting off this horrible cold/virus and sinus infection for the past 12 days. I finally felt good enough and/or fed up enough to get on the fluid bike trainer today for about 40 minutes. I just got finished and feel so good that I finally did something. Now I have to see how I feel tomorrow.

I'm glad to hear everyone else has the same opinion about the HRM training. I feel the same way that I could almost walk and have my heart rate in Z1 or Z2 and low Z3. However, I can tell those of you that are new to this - it works! I got to the point last Sprng that I could run for an 1 to 1.5 hours and stay below mid-Z3. Then, for the fun of it I went to play hoops again with some friends and I was all over the place and never got tired, compared to my buddies who only play hoops.

I can't wait to get back to that form again. I'm back to striking distance of the high weight I was at when I started my tri training in the Fall of 2005. I kept it off for about 14 months, then slowly gained it back over the next 4 months. I know I'll get back there.

Another thought, then I'll stop. I think I made a mistake in my first pass at this at targetting one race for the year. Everyone I read and talked to mentioned planning A, B and C races throughout the year. I thought I would target one race - what a mistake. I peaked at the race and couldn't get myself going again last year. A mistake I will not make again!

Have a great weekend.

Glad to see you back and feeling better.

"Another thought, then I'll stop. I think I made a mistake in my first pass at this at targetting one race for the year. Everyone I read and talked to mentioned planning A, B and C races throughout the year. I thought I would target one race - what a mistake. I peaked at the race and couldn't get myself going again last year. A mistake I will not make again! "

Good observation

I agree Chris, although depending on your goals, some folks are just out to finish and not necessarily peak for a race. That was me last year with the Ironman. I definitely had periodization in my plan, but it was mostly about base. The other races I did were just part of my training for ironman.

A couple of problems with only 1 A race. What if it rains, you have a flat, you get the flu?etc. I also think C races are really good training. 5K's are the best speed work I ever get. In training for speed you push yourself hard, but in a race your body seems to do more than I can make mine do in training. Same for duathlons, they are the ultimate brick workout. Doing several races helps you learn the tricks of trade, transitions, pacing, etc.

hi all...
just wanted to say I had a good workout today...bike/swim. Hope everyone is doing well.

On that note...

I wanted to slow down, skip a set, skip a minute, have extra rest...whatever the "thought" was.
But,I kept going, in the back of my head, I thought about my buddy john in iraq and that he was pissed he couldn't make a pool in the desert or ride his bike in the sand! (I smiled underwater too).

What are your "keep going" thoughts???

Keep going thoughts -

Last year, the ironman was my carrot. Anytime I wanted to stop I just thought about the 140.6 miles. This year, I still haven't got it going to that point. I got on the scale yesterday and that is pushing me a little.

One thing that I once heard that I use sometimes when the going gets rough is "I don't have to do this, I get to do this". I think that kinda ties to what your using!

ken...exactly.


For my first du/tri some questions:

1) do i have a pair of running socks and bike socks? (wet from swim=possible blisters?)
2) Since I am a true clydesdale, do I have to sign up for the clysdale division? I know I can compete with people my size, but I don't think i need to be put in that division and would like to see overall (my results versus that skinny kid that passed me in the run! haha)
3) What type of things come with me on the bike...tire fixing tools, etc..???
4) What else are some lesser talked about "needs" for the races?

Thanks all...

Those are very good questions.
1. Socks, I race without socks now but that is after years of racing with them. In a duathlon, you start with socks and thats cool No need to change them. In the triathlon, if you choose to wear socks, you shouldn't need to change them after the bike. You should bring a towel to transition and you can dry off your feet before you put the socks on. For a sprint try, I would try to avoid using socks altogether but you probably will want them for the Olympics because of the long run. My wife doesn't wear socks on the bike but puts them on for the run because of blister issues.
2. Clydesdale is totally optional so you can choose. Like you, I prefer to compare myself to the overall and my age group. The clydesdale classification makes no sense to me. Some really strong guys who happen to be taller competing with shorter heavier guys?
3. On the bike - depending on the race. In sprints, I don't usually bother with carrying a spare but thats wrong. I am just tempting the gods. In longer races, I carry 2 spares, 2 tire tools, a C02 dispenser and 3 CO2 cartlidges. For HIM or longer I put a multi bike tool in the bag. I put this in a saddle bag under the seat. I also have an aero bottle for hydration and one water bottle in a bottle cage. For an Olympic or longer race I use a bento box on my top tube for carrying food (generally some type of gue for Olympic Distance). If this needs further clarification, ask me. I am throwing terms around that some will not know.
4. Lesser thought of: Sunglasses, race number belt, hat, water bottle to carry on run, locking shoe laces for your running shoes.

Another good idea to help you would be to spend some time looking at race reports forum and see if you can find reports on prior years versions of the races you are doing. This will tell you about the course, the aid stations, and you may learn some tricks from other folks.

You are asking great questions and really working your plan. Keep it up, your gonna have alot of fun!

I'm an early morning runner, and I joke that I make myself go out before I'm awake! But actually, that is my motivation to keep going. I'd feel like I'd wasted precious sleep time if I didn't push to finish my run.

It was very cold here this morning, but it was the first time I'd had a chance to run in about a week and a half (since before I left for our ski trip). Last night I considered sleeping in, but I was on the phone with my Mom and she pointed out that it was warmer than it was where I was skiing, so she guilted me into going! Aren't moms great???

It looks like I missed some good discussions. I'd like to try the HRM approach, although I'm a little discouraged about the fast walk comments.

Hopefully this week I'll be able to get back to bike shopping, if I ever get my head above water at work!

Cheri,

Are you doing the double bridge run this weekend? I am pretty sure I am. I thought they had a 10k but it looks like the choices are 5 and 15. 5k is so fast but 15k is so long, not sure which one to do. I know I can PR the 15k because I have never raced at that difference. I think I can PR the 5k but not sure if I want to go that hard right now. Leaning to 15k but still not sure!

I expect that your HRM will tell a different story than most of us. You have such a great running base and HR will show us that. Do you vary your pace when you run?

Yes, I am going to do the double bridge run -- the 15k. I don't know how good I'll do, though, having taken nearly two weeks off. And I haven't run this race before. Last year I was signed up, but got sick and didn't go. I usually like running a course I've run before better than a new course. I guess it has to do with knowing where you are going, and where the finish line is.

I was reading the instructions on the double bridge run website, and there is no registration on Saturday. In fact, it looks like you have to pick up your race packet early too. I'm going to see if someone who lives over there can pick it up for me. I didn't really want to make a trip over there just to pick up my number!

I don't really vary my pace when I run. I used to (years ago), but for some unknown reason I stopped. It seems like I just zone out when I run, and my pace is really consistent. I do make a conscious effort to run slower on my long run training days, though. As soon as I get a chance, I'm going to try the HR thing.

Ken,

I checked the race brochure, and it looks like they do have packet pick up from 6-7 on Saturday morning.

I am back to undecided again. My wife doesn't want to do 15 k so I am still debating. Gotta make up my mind.

Goals for February, what a novel idea. Okay I will take a shot.

Focus on consistency and frequency.

Swim - At least 10 masters classes and 20,000 yards.

Bike - 200 miles for the month and get the long ride back up to 50 miles.

Run - 50 miles and complete a Half Marathon. Either Pensacola Beach or Mardi Gras.

Core - 4 days per week of core and to hold a plank for 1 minute by the end of the month!

I guess it's time to get serious -- I've been looking at the training plans and trying to select one. A 16 week plan would fit my plans, and since My First Tri is on June 9th that would mean starting on Feb 19th.

But I have a question -- since I also have some longer distance running races planned, I'd like to combine training for those and a tri together. Does anyone see a problem there? For example, the 16 week olympic (yes, I know that My First Tri isn't olympic distance) plan has "long" runs of 48 and 58 minutes in the first two months. I don't really consider those long runs, and don't think that is sufficient to train for a half marathon. Would adding longer runs be counter-productive?

Not counter productive at all. Your run base is so solid and the longer runs will only make it better. I am pretty confident that you are physically ready to complete My First Tri tomorrow. Your engine is strong. Use the plan to develop your swimming and biking skills, the run engine will get you where you want to go as long as you stay afloat and not fall off the bike. I am not sure of the distances of your tri, but I believe the race will be shorter than a 2 hour half marathon. So your 2 focus area's are developing your abilities to bike and swim and learning how to pace.

Good goals, important to build and not do too much at once. One thing I might suggest is you concentrate on frequency rather than distance on the run. Your elliptical work is helpful to your base and can count toward your run distance but you should try to shift to some days of actual running, even if its a short distance. I seem to recall your a pretty fast swimmer, so just getting your water wings back is all you will need there.