BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE! (Page 50)

Have safe travels and good luck with the races.

Steve,

I know you don't use HR/Power/Watts etc... while training/racing nowadays.  You have managed to really dial into your body's capabilities/limitations using RPE.  Looking back was doing the exercise you described above worthwhile?  I have thought about doing this but have not yet.  BTW, I assume that if they were taking blood samples were they measuring your lactate?

Steve,

Thanks for the insights and I didn't mean to keep you up. 1 am is late in anybody's books.  I picked 150 based on a half marathon I ran a couple of years ago (my first) which I targeted 150 as a rate I could maintain and which I did maintained during the race (flat out and back with 1 high rise bridge at mile 8 then again at about 11.  My time was about 2:12 or so.  Above 160 I cannot sustain longer than 15 to 20mins or so, above 165 I last maybe a tad over 5 minutes.  170+ and I am toast in about 2 minutes.  This morning I ran for about 30 minutes at an 11 minute pace and held at about 140-145 bpm.  I did increased my pace (I was on a treadmill) to about 10:45 or so and the heart rate climb to about 150.  I ran constant so not sure at how a 30 sec brieak would influence this.  I had a short in my transmitter which I kept toying with for the past month so I haven't had a reliable read out until I got my new transmitter this week.  My watch is a Timex Ironman model 607.  It has the standard features such as time in zone however I just generally use it to monitor my heart rate and set the timer for nutrition on the ride and watch how fast my heart rate goes down in 2 minutes after I complete excercising (generally 20 or so bpm).

Best of luck on your back to back races............

JK

Steve,

Good luck with your races!  You sure are piling on the races late in the season.

Denise

stevebradley - 2011-09-29 5:20 PM JEFF - Yes, very useful at the time, and something I would do all over again early in my career. I did that in Aug '02, about a week after my 12th triathlon, halfway through my third season (3 races in '00, 5 in '01, and 4 before the test and 3 after it in '02). I used HR quite a bit up until about '05, maybe, and then I continued it on treadmill work into early '06. Let me clarify that some -- I used HRM on many outside runs and rides up through '05, but in early '05 I also starting using it on the treadmill at the gym. And while I mostly discontinued it for outside stuff along about '05, I RELIED on it to keep me honest when doing killer treadmill runs. Frankly, I couldn't've/wouldn't've attacked the 'mill with such intensity had I not had my Zones to basically tell me that I could, in fact, operate at those high levels when the suffering was palpable; without that HR knowledge, i would've bailed on them much earlier. I probably said this before, but my reason for stopping using them outdoors was that there were times I felt fine and my HRM said I was at a limit, and other times when I felt lousy, but my HRM said I should be feeling fine. In other words, it was unreliable. I did a few training sessions in which I found I could go much further/faster than my planned Zone called for, and so I thought that if I went on HR and Zones and all, I would run the risk of underpacing myself. That said, I NEVER used my HRM in a race, as I was advised early on to rely on how I felt -- and that was borne out in my own "clinical" studies. Beyond that, it was just something else to fuss with a take my mind from the task at hand. I mean, there's the aspect of getting the strap right, and the contact established, and the more frequent checking of the rate on the monitor than I normally did when I just used my watch. So, all that said, I still found it all useful at the time, and it was part of a process that helped me understand my body better. I really loved how it made those treadmill sessions possible, and even though I said that above, I feel so strongly about it that I just want to say it again! Treadmills get a bad rap for tediousness, but a well-planned and well-executed (or at least well-attempted! 'mill session is worth any number of plod-along outdoor runs. Now, THAT said, I haven't been on a 'mill in about three years ---- but I still vouch for them! Finally, those VO2max and lactate threshold tests are something everyone should experience at least once. (Note that I haven't returned for any sort of "follow-up"! They are a real test of one's ability to want something (i.e., results?) bad enough to practically die for, or at least feel that way. Sweet Mother of Mercy!

Steve,

Thanks.  So your a "converted HR guy".    There are tons of "tools" available to help us with training/racing.  I was taught that the protocol you choose doesn't really matter.  Whatever helps you get to place you want to be is good.  Personally I'm with you on racing by HR.... most times   I won't let HR determine my pace for Sprint or Olympic distance events.  But for an HIM or longer I would use it to make decisions about my paces during the race. 

I have found the trendmill invaluable this season.  I took almost all of my runs indoors starting in August this year because of the heat/humidty.  Made a huge difference in the quality of my runs from a "feeling/recovery" standpoint.  Will see if it makes any difference in my pace next season. 

Steve - I haven't ran in like...two weeks - coach told me to take this week off and do what I want (which is ride my bike) and will start me back to running next week. Before my running hiatus I was running 2-3 times a week, 3-6 miles each time. I've decided to keep coach because he complemented me on Redman. I'm such a sucker.

But I do think my run is coming along, however slowly it comes. My longest run is a 10K, so obviously I have some work to do. And I agree, doing the half mary will give me an idea of each leg of a half-iron. 

I have also started riding my bike on a hilly course. I have to load my bike and drive almost 30 minutes to do so, but I'm burned-out on riding the bike around the lake in front of my house, and am in dire need of hills. 

Good to know that White Rock is a good choice. Thanks for the input! 

You are a triathlon machine, Steve. 

Jeff,

I have also been doing most of my training on a treadmill lateley including my long runs.  I know this sounds like a rookie type question, but since I am I do not mind asking.....Is there much of a difference in your times when you transistion to pavement? I  was wondering what your experience has been.....

JK

Hey JK,

One of the things that I have found out about triathlon is that no question is a rookie question and more times than not the answer you get (even from the pro's and their elite coaches) will differ.  So given that, my experience with treadmills has been:

1) I don't take much stock in measuring my pace/speed on the treadmill.  Pace/Speed readings from treadmill to treadmill that set next to one another in the same gym will differ because of belt slippage.  I can tell you that in the gym that I belong to there is one treadmill that I hate to get on and one that I like getting on.  The effort required for the 6.5mph setting sure is MUCH harder on the one that I don't like to get on.

2) Regarding your question about "pavement versus treadmill".  I have found (with the treadmills that I use) that the effort (RPE) required for 6.5mph on the treadmill is harder than 6.5mph on the pavement.  This is probably contrary to what you would expect.  This could be due to the specific equipment that I have access to and might be totally different from what you have experienced.

3) So, because of #1 and #2 I don't try and correllate the mph setting on the treadmill with my pace/mph on "real" runs.  Most of the time on the treadmills I'll use RPE.  I kind of have a good idea what my Easy, Steady, Mod-Hard and Hard paces feel like.  So if my plan calls for a Steady paced run I'll set the treadmill on a mph setting that feels like Steady.  Other times I'll use HR (Steve is rolling his eyes after reading that   For example, my Steady zone for my runs is around 140bpm.  I'll just crank up the treadmill to a mph setting that gets me 140bpm, etc., etc..

If I had my way I would run 100% outdoors.  However, treadmills sure do have value where I live (particularily in July/August/September).  Long response but hopefully that helps? 

Joe/Jeff

I also find treadmill harder than pavement (at the same mph).  Glad to hear someone else finds that the case for whatever reason.  Everything I've read says the opposite.

Denise

Steve,

Looks like you had a couple of great wins again - very large margin between you and 2nd place in both races.

Denise

Jeff / Denise

That is a bit of a surprise that you both find that the treadmill is more difficult at a given speed than pavement. I was anticipating that the treadmill was a bit easier or alot.....not harder.  Good to hear, of course the disclaimer noted that the difference is dependent upon the machine.  Currently, I am focusing on maintaining a given BPM on my long treadmill runs.  I tend to drift and start trying to focus on predicting my race times vice just enjoying the race at a given heart rate and ensuring I finish halfway upright.  I might lose some of my endorsements with this strategy but what the heck

JK

Steve,

Congrats on finishing your season strong.  Not sure why you would feel a bit tired after a 9 hour drive, back to back races, and then a 9 hour drive back.  That is one busy "week-end".  It looks like your Sunday race times did not suffer though.  Great Job and glad to hear you made it back safely.....can't wait to read the details.

JK

Great racing Steve.  I hope those 2 races give you the boost in rankings that you were looking for.  Interesting to note that your bike and run paces were slower for the shorter distance race.  My assumptions are:

1) The course for the shorter race was harder --- or

2) The weather conditions for the longer race were much better (tailwind instead of headwind) --- or

3) You were holding back on the shorter distance --- or

4) It takes your a little while to get warmed up --- or

5) You prefer racing on Sundays