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2010-05-20 11:38 AM
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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
shmeeg - 2010-05-20 11:30 AM

Meulen - 2010-05-20 9:15 AM I got my new tri suit in the mail yesterday. I wanted to make sure everything went ok with it under my wetsuit. When I put the wetsuit on the zip stuck!!! I had to take it off to to unstick it. I really don't know what's wrong but hope that doesn't happen again. I soaked it in the tub last night and plan on gooping myself up with body glide and trying again tonight. I hope it works!!! I was concerned it may be too big. I've lost 17lbs since I bought it in February. It seems to be ok still, except the arms seem tighter. I guess all that resistance training paid off some.


Wait.  Whut?


hahahhahaha...

I got my tri suit (one piece tri tank/short) and I wanted to make sure there were no hang ups with it being underneath my wetsuit. While trying on the wetsuit the zipper stuck. My wife tried to help me pull the zipper up but couldn't.


2010-05-20 11:54 AM
in reply to: #2871193

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Meulen - 2010-05-20 9:38 AM
shmeeg - 2010-05-20 11:30 AM
Meulen - 2010-05-20 9:15 AM I got my new tri suit in the mail yesterday. I wanted to make sure everything went ok with it under my wetsuit. When I put the wetsuit on the zip stuck!!! I had to take it off to to unstick it. I really don't know what's wrong but hope that doesn't happen again. I soaked it in the tub last night and plan on gooping myself up with body glide and trying again tonight. I hope it works!!! I was concerned it may be too big. I've lost 17lbs since I bought it in February. It seems to be ok still, except the arms seem tighter. I guess all that resistance training paid off some.


Wait.  Whut?
hahahhahaha... I got my tri suit (one piece tri tank/short) and I wanted to make sure there were no hang ups with it being underneath my wetsuit. While trying on the wetsuit the zipper stuck. My wife tried to help me pull the zipper up but couldn't.


Oh ok, I was envisioning a zippered trisuit under a zippered wetsuit w/ the zippers locked together LOL
2010-05-20 1:24 PM
in reply to: #2871108

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Meulen - 2010-05-20 9:15 AM I got my new tri suit in the mail yesterday. I wanted to make sure everything went ok with it under my wetsuit. When I put the wetsuit on the zip stuck!!! I had to take it off to to unstick it. I really don't know what's wrong but hope that doesn't happen again. I soaked it in the tub last night and plan on gooping myself up with body glide and trying again tonight. I hope it works!!! I was concerned it may be too big. I've lost 17lbs since I bought it in February. It seems to be ok still, except the arms seem tighter. I guess all that resistance training paid off some.


I'm assuming it's the wetsuit zipper you're having trouble with? It shouldn't have anything to do with the tri suit underneath right?
2010-05-20 1:30 PM
in reply to: #2871636

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
dhopman - 2010-05-20 1:24 PM

Meulen - 2010-05-20 9:15 AM I got my new tri suit in the mail yesterday. I wanted to make sure everything went ok with it under my wetsuit. When I put the wetsuit on the zip stuck!!! I had to take it off to to unstick it. I really don't know what's wrong but hope that doesn't happen again. I soaked it in the tub last night and plan on gooping myself up with body glide and trying again tonight. I hope it works!!! I was concerned it may be too big. I've lost 17lbs since I bought it in February. It seems to be ok still, except the arms seem tighter. I guess all that resistance training paid off some.


I'm assuming it's the wetsuit zipper you're having trouble with? It shouldn't have anything to do with the tri suit underneath right?


yes the wetsuit zipper. Nothing to do with the trisuit underneath. I'm hoping it's a one time thing. I heard you're supposed to soak wetsuits if they haven't been used in a while. Mine's brand new, so I soaked it last night. The zipper seems fine when I'm not in it. I tried it on when I got it no problems. I'm hoping it was a one time thing.

I'm just nervous something isn't going to go right for this weekend. My wife already told me she can't get off work early. That means I'll miss the pre-ride, and possibly a chance to get in the water the day before. It for sure means I'll miss early packet pickup and will be quite rushed to get checked in and get my transition area set up before race time.

I'm probably just venting. Nerves talking.

Edited by Meulen 2010-05-20 1:31 PM
2010-05-20 1:38 PM
in reply to: #2770949

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
hey Dave,

Is there a way you would suggest to warm up for the swim before you get in the water? Maybe, it's just me, but I notice I always swim better the more I swim. When I swim 400's I barely make the first one. By the 4th 400 I feel strong even with minimal rest between 3 and 4. When the gun goes off sunday I'd rather feel like I'm in the second half of my swim set than the first.

Edited by Meulen 2010-05-20 1:51 PM
2010-05-20 2:00 PM
in reply to: #2871697

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Meulen - 2010-05-20 11:38 AM hey Dave, Is there a way you would suggest to warm up for the swim before you get in the water? Maybe, it's just me, but I notice I always swim better the more I swim. When I swim 400's I barely make the first one. By the 4th 400 I feel strong even with minimal rest between 3 and 4. When the gun goes off sunday I'd rather feel like I'm in the second half of my swim set than the first.


2010-05-20 2:10 PM
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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Meulen - 2010-05-20 11:38 AM hey Dave, Is there a way you would suggest to warm up for the swim before you get in the water? Maybe, it's just me, but I notice I always swim better the more I swim. When I swim 400's I barely make the first one. By the 4th 400 I feel strong even with minimal rest between 3 and 4. When the gun goes off sunday I'd rather feel like I'm in the second half of my swim set than the first.


^^^oops...

Oh man - you guys should see a video my friend took of my wave start at Wildflower. I have it on facebook...not sure if BT takes video. It's crazy. BTW - I uploaded some photos from that race finally.

I feel the same way about getting into a groove on the swim - it takes some time to settle in on a pace. Some people warm up in the water prior to their wave start but that can be difficult at some races. That's probably the best way though. Get in 10-15 minutes tops, nice and easy. Do it as close as possible to your wave start time...if you have 30 minutes between your warm up and your wave start, I'm not sure you've done yourself any good...who knows.

If you feel like you are standing around for too long, keep your arms moving - do forwards and backwards rotations, think about skating from side to side, etc. This will get some blood flowing to your arms I'm guessing. Some people use resistance cords/bands which does the same thing - probably better. Keep it light of course. Lots of people race the first 300m of the swim, then die off. Don't go out too hard and you'll be picking off lots of them before you know it.
2010-05-20 2:24 PM
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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
I just had a thought: back in my swimming days my coach would do sets where we push the 3rd quarter. If you're doing 100's, it's the 3rd 25, for 200's it's the 3rd 50, etc. Her reasoning is that you will go out fast in the first quarter of the distance anyways. You'll close fast in the last quarter. If you consciously push the third quarter of the race, you'll see your times drop.

She also had me race this way for any 200+ distance event (100's are an all-out sprint).

If you can divide your OWS into quarters easily, this might be worth a try.
2010-05-20 2:31 PM
in reply to: #2871845

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
dhopman - 2010-05-20 2:24 PM

I just had a thought: back in my swimming days my coach would do sets where we push the 3rd quarter. If you're doing 100's, it's the 3rd 25, for 200's it's the 3rd 50, etc. Her reasoning is that you will go out fast in the first quarter of the distance anyways. You'll close fast in the last quarter. If you consciously push the third quarter of the race, you'll see your times drop.

She also had me race this way for any 200+ distance event (100's are an all-out sprint).

If you can divide your OWS into quarters easily, this might be worth a try.


good idea, I'll give it a shot. I was also thinking about getting to the buoy and doing the breast stroke to turn around. It may take a few extra seconds but may give me that break I need to make me feel like I'm late into my sets and warmed up instead of constantly fighting that feeling of being tired from the first set.
2010-05-20 3:03 PM
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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Meulen - 2010-05-20 12:31 PM good idea, I'll give it a shot. I was also thinking about getting to the buoy and doing the breast stroke to turn around. It may take a few extra seconds but may give me that break I need to make me feel like I'm late into my sets and warmed up instead of constantly fighting that feeling of being tired from the first set.


Here's a really good video to help with sighting/drafting (not sure I believe it helps)/cornering/etc. for OWS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywrXQUvUkbU&feature=related
2010-05-20 3:09 PM
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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Meulen - 2010-05-20 12:31 PM good idea, I'll give it a shot. I was also thinking about getting to the buoy and doing the breast stroke to turn around. It may take a few extra seconds but may give me that break I need to make me feel like I'm late into my sets and warmed up instead of constantly fighting that feeling of being tired from the first set.


turning the buoy really doesnt take that many strokes anyway unless theres a ton of people that just happen to be there at the same time as you and youre taking it sooooper wide.  Just use that point to mentally mark however far into the swim you are if youre going to break it up that way.


2010-05-20 3:35 PM
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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
shmeeg - 2010-05-20 1:09 PM
Meulen - 2010-05-20 12:31 PM good idea, I'll give it a shot. I was also thinking about getting to the buoy and doing the breast stroke to turn around. It may take a few extra seconds but may give me that break I need to make me feel like I'm late into my sets and warmed up instead of constantly fighting that feeling of being tired from the first set.


turning the buoy really doesnt take that many strokes anyway unless theres a ton of people that just happen to be there at the same time as you and youre taking it sooooper wide.  Just use that point to mentally mark however far into the swim you are if youre going to break it up that way.


Here's an interesting blog post regarding choosing a line for OWS: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2009/09/swimming-line.html

Moral of the story: the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Aim right at the bouy, take the turn tight, repeat. Always take the inside line.
2010-05-20 3:56 PM
in reply to: #2872118

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
dhopman - 2010-05-20 3:35 PM

shmeeg - 2010-05-20 1:09 PM
Meulen - 2010-05-20 12:31 PM good idea, I'll give it a shot. I was also thinking about getting to the buoy and doing the breast stroke to turn around. It may take a few extra seconds but may give me that break I need to make me feel like I'm late into my sets and warmed up instead of constantly fighting that feeling of being tired from the first set.


turning the buoy really doesnt take that many strokes anyway unless theres a ton of people that just happen to be there at the same time as you and youre taking it sooooper wide.  Just use that point to mentally mark however far into the swim you are if youre going to break it up that way.


Here's an interesting blog post regarding choosing a line for OWS: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2009/09/swimming-line.html

Moral of the story: the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Aim right at the bouy, take the turn tight, repeat. Always take the inside line.


hahahhahhaha!!! I'm just looking to survive!! LOL Maybe, I'm being conservative and not giving myself enough credit. However, I really just learned to swim. I just started getting to the point where I can swim .5 mile a couple months ago. I also haven't OWS since I was in camp when I was 12.(23 years ago ) To be honest Dave my strategy was to listen for the gun to go off, take a deep breath, leisurely enter the water, and swim slow and smooth on an outside line. I'm not so sure how I'm going to deal with the OW yet or the flailing bodies around me. If I make the turn at the bouy and am feeling good I'll change that strategy then and power the last 1/4 for sure. But really, I just want to make it through without stopping. In the last 2 indoor tri's I did I went out too hard and blew up. I need to make it through for a confidence booster.

Edited by Meulen 2010-05-20 3:57 PM
2010-05-20 5:09 PM
in reply to: #2872118

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
dhopman - 2010-05-20 1:35 PM
Here's an interesting blog post regarding choosing a line for OWS: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2009/09/swimming-line.html


I love that guys blog.  He has some really good reads on there.  Lots to learn.
2010-05-20 6:25 PM
in reply to: #2871257

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
shmeeg - 2010-05-20 9:54 AM

Meulen - 2010-05-20 9:38 AM
shmeeg - 2010-05-20 11:30 AM
Meulen - 2010-05-20 9:15 AM I got my new tri suit in the mail yesterday. I wanted to make sure everything went ok with it under my wetsuit. When I put the wetsuit on the zip stuck!!! I had to take it off to to unstick it. I really don't know what's wrong but hope that doesn't happen again. I soaked it in the tub last night and plan on gooping myself up with body glide and trying again tonight. I hope it works!!! I was concerned it may be too big. I've lost 17lbs since I bought it in February. It seems to be ok still, except the arms seem tighter. I guess all that resistance training paid off some.


Wait.  Whut?
hahahhahaha... I got my tri suit (one piece tri tank/short) and I wanted to make sure there were no hang ups with it being underneath my wetsuit. While trying on the wetsuit the zipper stuck. My wife tried to help me pull the zipper up but couldn't.


Oh ok, I was envisioning a zippered trisuit under a zippered wetsuit w/ the zippers locked together LOL


I had a hard time visualizing this one too! Try a little wax on the zipper.
2010-05-20 6:29 PM
in reply to: #2872001

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
dhopman - 2010-05-20 1:03 PM

Meulen - 2010-05-20 12:31 PM good idea, I'll give it a shot. I was also thinking about getting to the buoy and doing the breast stroke to turn around. It may take a few extra seconds but may give me that break I need to make me feel like I'm late into my sets and warmed up instead of constantly fighting that feeling of being tired from the first set.


Here's a really good video to help with sighting/drafting (not sure I believe it helps)/cornering/etc. for OWS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywrXQUvUkbU&feature=related


Comment on the drafting section. I'm not a big fan of trying to draft behind people. I have a hard time pacing behind someone. I feel like I'm constantly having to adjust my reach to stay clear of the other person. Also, I've been kicked too many times. I would much rather settle in next to another swimmer. Plus, like he said, you can still sight fairly well without being obscured by the other person.


2010-05-20 6:36 PM
in reply to: #2872191

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Meulen - 2010-05-20 1:56 PM

hahahhahhaha!!! I'm just looking to survive!! LOL Maybe, I'm being conservative and not giving myself enough credit. However, I really just learned to swim. I just started getting to the point where I can swim .5 mile a couple months ago. I also haven't OWS since I was in camp when I was 12.(23 years ago ) To be honest Dave my strategy was to listen for the gun to go off, take a deep breath, leisurely enter the water, and swim slow and smooth on an outside line. I'm not so sure how I'm going to deal with the OW yet or the flailing bodies around me. If I make the turn at the bouy and am feeling good I'll change that strategy then and power the last 1/4 for sure. But really, I just want to make it through without stopping. In the last 2 indoor tri's I did I went out too hard and blew up. I need to make it through for a confidence booster.


It takes a few races to build confidence. I think you have a pretty solid plan. Stick to your plan, find a comfort zone in the water, focus on technique, and so what if this requires you to swim a little longer. The race is not won in the water!
2010-05-20 6:54 PM
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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
brick94513 - 2010-05-20 4:36 PM
Meulen - 2010-05-20 1:56 PM hahahhahhaha!!! I'm just looking to survive!! LOL Maybe, I'm being conservative and not giving myself enough credit. However, I really just learned to swim. I just started getting to the point where I can swim .5 mile a couple months ago. I also haven't OWS since I was in camp when I was 12.(23 years ago ) To be honest Dave my strategy was to listen for the gun to go off, take a deep breath, leisurely enter the water, and swim slow and smooth on an outside line. I'm not so sure how I'm going to deal with the OW yet or the flailing bodies around me. If I make the turn at the bouy and am feeling good I'll change that strategy then and power the last 1/4 for sure. But really, I just want to make it through without stopping. In the last 2 indoor tri's I did I went out too hard and blew up. I need to make it through for a confidence booster.
It takes a few races to build confidence. I think you have a pretty solid plan. Stick to your plan, find a comfort zone in the water, focus on technique, and so what if this requires you to swim a little longer. The race is not won in the water!


Ahh, but it can be lost in the water!
2010-05-20 8:55 PM
in reply to: #2770949

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
More rules for enlightenment....

4.2 Bottom Contact and Resting.


A participant may stand on the bottom or rest by holding an inanimate object

such as a buoy, boat, rope or floating object. Excluding the bottom, a participant shall not use any inanimate object to gain forward progress. A violation of this section shall result in a variable time penalty, unless the Head Referee in his/her sole discretion determines that (i) the violation was substantial and resulted in an unfair time advantage, or(ii) the violation constituted endangerment under Section 3.4(1).
 

 

2010-05-20 9:07 PM
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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Speaking of using the bottom, what is the best way to move forward into the surf when you first go in?  I felt like I wasted a lot of time from the beach to the breakers and on the flipside coming back in as well.  The only portion of the swim that I was remotely pleased about was the middle.
2010-05-20 9:29 PM
in reply to: #2871697

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Meulen - 2010-05-19 2:38 PM hey Dave, Is there a way you would suggest to warm up for the swim before you get in the water? Maybe, it's just me, but I notice I always swim better the more I swim. When I swim 400's I barely make the first one. By the 4th 400 I feel strong even with minimal rest between 3 and 4. When the gun goes off sunday I'd rather feel like I'm in the second half of my swim set than the first.


I'm exactly the same way. I'm not warmed-up until I've swam 500 yards. 


2010-05-20 9:45 PM
in reply to: #2872615

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!

 

 

shmeeg - 2010-05-20 7:07 PM Speaking of using the bottom, what is the best way to move forward into the surf when you first go in?  I felt like I wasted a lot of time from the beach to the breakers and on the flipside coming back in as well.  The only portion of the swim that I was remotely pleased about was the middle.


This says it better than I can....

Taken from Surf Swimming: A Competitor's Perspective by Greg Smith.

Phases of the start

a. Wading

Of all the skills, I rate wading as the most important. So often races are won or lost at the start, and if you can't wade, it's hard to come from behind. Wading involves two actions:

i. Running and
ii. Porpoising.

A strong wader has an advantage from the start. He or she can be in the water and swimming as others founder.  It is harder to catch someone while you are swimming than when you are both running.  And as you should already know, most surf races (and that includes craft events) are won by the time the field reaches the buoys. Not everyone can wade well (may be it's something to do with genes), but everyone can improve. If you are a good runner, then you've got a head start. However, WADING IS NOT RUNNING.

The major differences between wading and running are that in wading:

a. Leg action is high and to the side, and
b. There is great emphasis on stomach muscles.

Legs must be lifted high, yet to the side, to enable a competitor to jump over waves (up to a certain height). The side action is similar to that of a hurdler, and there is great strain on the thigh and inner-thigh muscles. To assist in development, cycling and/or squats are thigh extension exercises should be a part of training. The legs come around to the side, with toes pointed backwards on exit from the water (to stop the wave from impeding your progress through the break).

b. Porpoising

Once a competitor has negotiated the break to about waist depth, wading becomes too difficult, because the legs cannot be lifted through the water.  Once your maximum depth has been reached, you should switch to porpoising, or forward-plunging, under or over waves.  Whether you plunge under, or over, is up to you, and can only be determined through trial and error, and what you believe to be your skill level.

Porpoising is usually only done for a short distance, as once you reach waist depth the water depth increases rapidly. On average you will do between three to six "porpoises".  Most competitors seem to be able to porpoise at about the same standard (i.e., there's not much distance to be gained here).  However, certain techniques can give you a slight edge, and any edge is better than none.

The porpoise should also be used as a time of consolidation, both physically and mentally. When you porpoise you should be controlling your breathing and using this brief time to survey where you are in relation to the buoys and the rest of the field. A mistake can be either made or corrected at this stage of the race.

iii. Wave-diving

Included in the porpoising section is a competitor's ability to master diving to the sea bed before a wave hits.  Judging whether to dive over or under a wave will come with time and practice.  Eventually, only you can be the judge, as it will depend on your physical make-up and ability to perform the task.

In this section, more than any, there are more variables that any stage of the race. Here, particularly in big seas, you are at the mercy of the ocean.  More so than porpoising, wave-diving is as essential as wading. Timing and technique are critical. Competitors can lose many metres if they fail to dive early enough and are knocked back by the force of the wave.  Conversely, if a competitor goes for the bottom too early, he or she can run out of breath while waiting for the wave to pass overhead. It's all a matter of timing, and knowing when to dive. As with all surf skills, this is a matter of practice.

The way the dive is effected is important. 

Before diving you should check to see if there are any waves following the one 

you are diving under. (This will enable you to know how long you should stay under, and if you have to be prepared to take another quick breath once the first wave has passed).Dive right to the bottom if possible*. The angle of the dive should be at least 45 degrees. If you dive at a greater angle and you haven't timed the dive correctly, you will be forced back by the wave, because your body is in a more upright position. If you dive at anything less than 45 degrees you will take longer to reach the bottom.

Once on the bottom, grab the sand and bring your feet under your hands to prepare for the push-off. Grabbing the sand will stop you from being forced back by the wave. You will know if the wave has passed, either by looking (yes, under water) or by feel and/or sound.

The push-off should be effected immediately the wave has passed, once again at 45 degrees.  The angle of push is even more critical here than in the dive, because when you surface any approaching wave will hit you hardest the greater the angle you are at.  As you push off you should release all the air stored in your lungs, ready to take your first breath immediately after you surface.

Sometimes the depth of the water makes it impossible to get right to the bottom. In such cases you should go as deep as the water is churning under the wave. If you open your eyes, you can distinguish the colour difference between where the wave is churning and where it is still (i.e. no water movement below the white water).

2010-05-20 9:49 PM
in reply to: #2770949

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
Mark here is what I know of right now for the Bay Area:

June 12

SVST sprint distance triathlon -- San Jose
XTERRA Marin Headlands Trail Run (7k and 21K) -- Rodeo Beach

June 13

SVST Oly distance triathlon -- San Jose
San Lorenzo River Trail Run -- Santa Cruz
2010-05-20 10:23 PM
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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!

Thanks, clarifies what I need to work on.  Now to just find an ocean around here....

2010-05-21 8:26 AM
in reply to: #2770949

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Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!
update, I practiced getting the wetsuit off for T1 last night. The zipper seems to work fine now. It must of got out of wack somehow.

Tim.....wax???? Where do you think I'd get wax in the Midwest? My local board shop is probably a 4 hour plane ride away. LOL

I swam last night. I'm still worried about making it the entire half mile. I was hoping swimming often this week would help. I doubt I'll have the time to swim enough before hand to warm up. The first 400 in my set of 4 just seems soooooo hard. I'm hoping that maybe I'll slow down and just settle in at the turn and not need the 30-45 seconds rest I get between sets in training. That and maybe the wetsuit will make it easier. Being 6'1" with long legs and short torso body top, I tend to let me butt and legs sink when I get tired creating drag. I've got the quintana roo hydrofoil wetsuit that is supposed to have a pull buoy effect. I've never had an opportunity to swim in it yet so we'll see.
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