BigSkiesMentorGroup

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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JEFF again -

To my mind, the longer the race, the more amplitude (?) one has to ease up on the bike at the end. Or, conversely, in a short bike it is too much of a gamble to ease up at all, as the race just doesn't afford much "wiggle-room" for dallying.

So, at Clam Man it was just all-out for the whole ten miles. Were I a HRM guy, I might've seen a high avewrage HR for Clam, as opoosed to Bass. The winner was racked next to me, and FWIW, his average watts was something like 337, was what I think I heard him say. Now that's a guy who couldn't've eased up even minutely for the whole 10 miles!

Regular

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Crystal Coast

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

stevebradley - 2011-10-03 11:12 PM JK - My problem with writing races reports are that with two active groups, doing it twice is too daunting. I have ridden the genrosity of people in both groups a couple of times to get them to cut and move from one group to the other, a task I have no idea how to undertake, and which I really hesitate to ask someone else to do. I will REALLY try to detail those two races, and m aybe also the two from last weekend.

Steve,

The advice you have given me is more than I have ever expected and I do truely appreciate the time and thought you put in behind your posts. When I made the comment about can't wait to read the details, I by know means meant to imply that I was asking. My apologies...........

JK

My Race Log

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10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JK -

Absolutely positively no apologies needed!!! My response was my way of apologizing to all of you who enjoy reading reports for any number of reasons, all of which I understand perfectly well. I generally really like writing them, and in the past I never missed with voluminous reports on every race I did.

But this year I've been very slack, missing reporting on most of the races I have done, and I really should just plow ahead and do this past weekend, and then the weekend before, and then Nations. That would be the final five, all of which are pretty fresh in my memory. I think I can? I think I can?

Anyhow, please feel free to ALWAYS ask about anything, at any time. After all, that's what I'm here for!!

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10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

RACE REPORT -- Clam Man (Bayville, NJ), Sat., Oct. 1

I drove down Friday, taking my time and going slowly during afternoon rush hour through Newark. I got to Toms River, about 10 miles north of the race site, around 6:30, found a cheap and somewhat sleazy motel, and ate pork chops and rice and salad at a Perkins. Not exactly the best night-before meal, but....

This race wasn't in my sights even three days previously, and I was counting on morning-of registration; the RD wrote and told me this would be okay. Still, I woke at 4 to make sure I was at the venue before 5, when transition opened. Got there and signed up with no hitches, and set up in the wet grass (big rains during the night) of a small transition area; I could see why the RD said there would be race-morning registration! Rack spots were based on a range of bib numbers, so it rewarded people like me who arrive early. I nabbed a prime spot along the central laneway, and my assigned rack was right in the middle; nicely played!

My breakfast was typically spartan -- tea and a croissant, plus nibbles of a Clif Mojo bar as I was waiting. And as usual, a gel about 20 minutes before the swim.

SWIM (0.5miles)
The RD is proudest of the swim, which really is kind of neat. It circles the end of Berkeley Island County Park, and consists of a few 45-to-60-degree left turns. The race literature showed it going clsockwise, though, which would've involved right turns, but it was changed that morning to work with the current (it is in mostly-protected Barneget Bay, so saltwater with current, but no waves or breakers). Anyhow, it was very cool -- but I was plagued by a leaky right gasket, which is my go-to eye. I had to stop twice in the first minute or two to try to adjust it, and ended up doing the bulk of the swim with my right eye closed. Grrrr. It was fine during my warm-up, so why it acted up once it counted....I just don't know. Decent overall, though.
13:17 (25th o.a.)

T1
Short run in, quick transition -- aided by having sprayed PAM on the outside of the lower legs of my wetsuit. This helps some in allowing the wetsuit to glide down itself easier when being shunted down the legs.
0:54

BIKE (10 miles)
Almost perfectly flat, save for a couple of little rises offer creeks connecting the bay with saltmarshes. It is also a straight out-and-back, and had about five 90-degree turns. So, it was hardly technical at all, but wind did play a factor. I found it a bit tough to get into a rhythm for much of the out part, and fared only slightly better on the back part. I moved well, though, and have no big complaints; not even some small ones, really. I went out with about 1/4 bottle of HEED and had a sip somewhere along the way.
28:58 (11th o.a., 20.7mph)

T2
With the timing mats right outside the small transition area, it was easy to have quick-looking transition times. I am happy with mine, given that recent T2 times have not been good at all. I generally fuss too much with getting on my running shoes; I tink I need to make some adjustments in my speed laces!
0:51

RUN (3.5 miles)
I felt good right from the start, even going into the wind. I knew this would be there, though, as the run course mirrors the bike course for most of the first and last 1.5 miles. I quickly "picked-up" a 57-year-old and followed him until the trunaround. We talekd a bit, and then he wished me well as I surged

past him. My cadence was excellent for the whole thing, around 91/minute, and overall it was an easy run for me
25:14 (22nd overall, 7:12/mile)

1:09:15
13/67 overall
1/2 M60-64

ADDITIONAL
-- "medals" were very cool -- big clam shells with the race logo taped inside
-- overall M and F winners received gorgeous hand-carved wooden (from catalpa trees) clams mounted on a stand
-- clam bake post-race (but I don't like clams

)
-- bought a great race hooded sweatshirt -- the race logo BIG on the front,, and on the back is priented "youn thrill 'em......we grill 'em")
-- wonderful vibe throughout, with the local tri organization that put it on obviously loving each other lots, and somehow this extending itself so that even for me, the ultimate outsider, I didn't feel finge-ish at all
-- good, long post-race converstaion with the other M60-64, plus the lone guy in 65-69 (whom I had met previously)
-- awards timely, and almost sadly.....it was all finished by about 9:30
-- a more serious crowd doing my race (subtitled "Cherrystone"), while the ones doing an even shorter one (subtitled "Littleneck") seemed to fully love everything; that was just nice to see
-- nothing to change, really. I thought about saving something for the next day (Bassman), but as I worked Clam Man into my plans, it seemed important enough on its own, so I held very little back

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10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

There! That was pretty easy! Bassman willl come later!

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Later has come, and with it the Bassman report. But that is over at the other active site, which is Got Your Mojo Workin' in the Mentor Archives. It is on Mojo page 203 there, about the 4th or 5th from the top.

Enjoy, ye who venture forth to it!

Edited by stevebradley 2011-10-05 11:25 PM

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

REV3 just annouced a new HIM distance race in Sarasota, FL during late October of 2012. Yes, I'm in.

Great weather conditions and from what I read on the news release it looks like a pretty scenic course.

Looking for a good HIM race next year? Something to think about. I'll even host the party afterwards!!!

My Race Log

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42

Concord

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Now see, I was all set to do a race report from my end-of-season race back on September. I'm tired enough after teaching my daughter to ride a bike and don't want to yet go to bed so I thought I'd sit down and try to crank out something. Then I see the excellent race report by Steve and I'm about to go back into hiding. Seriously though, I've been so busy, its a shame, but here goes anyway.

My last race of this year was the Tri For Real in Pleasanton, CA. The course was a 700yd swim, 18 mi bike ride and 4 mi run. Between Golden Gate and this one I tried to focus on my run and ride. The ride was mostly flat so I wasn't worried about hills and just wanted to get my speed up. The run was longer and after my back pain on the last one, I really wanted to improve the overall run experience. Unfortunately for Canon... I was so busy with work and family I didn't have time to train like I wanted. It was so bad, I started to worry about injury for lack of training. Then as I started doing more 4 mi runs, I started to feel some knee pain in my right knee. Not my left, just my right. I can only describe it as if felt like it was filling with fluid. It wasn't - didn't swell or anything, it just felt that way. I was aware of it while I ran (while I wasn't with my left) and it felt harder to move. One last thing on the knee - I noticed that it hurt less, if at all, when I ran after my ride... That being said, I looked at my times for all three and set a goal for myself of two hours. Up to that point on a flatter ride I was averaging about 16mph. My runs, on their best day (of which there weren't many) were just at 36 min for 4 mi. I figured I could be out of the water in about 14 min. So 2 hours was doable but required everything to go right. BTW - last year's winner (not that I was aiming for his time) was 1:15

Day of the event: Got there nice and early, checked in and set up with little problem. I kept my headphones on to avoid the noise and waited for my friend. For some reason, it seemed like the bike racks got REALLY crowded. I did a little stretching but not much. Based upon age, I was in group two. While there was timing, it was only a total time, not a time with splits.

Swim: Started on the outside, towards the front (but not too close) of a counterclockwise triangle course. Since the water was warmer I didn't use a wetsuit (boy did I miss the added buoyancy) As I started, it quickly seemed like the pack moved on ahead of me and there was no one around. When I sighted, the front runners were quickly pulling away. Worse yet, I really felt like I had bonked and was sucking wind on the swim. As I got out of the water, I truly believed that I was one of the last in my group. I really had to work to put that out of my mind and just run my race. Since I was only using my watch to time splits, I noticed that when I got out of the water I was at about 13 minutes.

T1: Without a wetsuit my T1 was much faster that last races debacle. I decided to follow Steve's advice, and ride without socks. The hardest part of the T1 was putting on my tri top. I was too wet to pull it down. For the first .1mi of my ride it was bunched up like a bra until I dried out enough to pull it down. (Yes there is a picture of that.)

Bike: While it took a while to get going and refuel so I didn't feel like I was totally drained after the swim, I ultimately did. I had read a report from last year's race on here and knew that some riders were averaging 24 mph. (I told myself that was on a tri bike powered by mini, hidden rockets.) I was hoping to be done in 1:10 or so given my expected 16mph average. The organizers never really posted the bike course. Once they emailed it to me, I drove it the weekend before. It was a relatively simple 9mi loop with only one short, hill and a few inclines. I felt relatively comfortable with it since I knew where the few hills were. One funny was that about half way through the first lap, I felt something around my neck. I reached down - and had forgot to take my goggles off. Oh well - get that at T2. Fuelwise, I drank my Heed and two or three gels. I had some chews for the run. The ride was mostly pretty fun. I played cat and mouse with a few guys and just waved as all the guys on tri-bikes (with hidden rockets) went by. The only bad thing was that on the last lap I got a really bad stomach cramp. I mean like high up just under my ribcage. I had to come up out of may aero bars to try to stretch that. Come the end of the bike ride, somehow my computer said I had averaged 18 mph. I also tried to keep my cadence high (like over 90) to use my quads more and save my hamstrings for the run. I had read something like that on here and had incorporated it into my training rides.

T2: Much easier to put on shoes and socks with dry feet. Took of goggles, grabbed race belt and was off. Some how managed to only take off one of my gloves (the right one) so I felt kind of like a really athletic Michael Jackson on the run. (Ok, first I was worried that I had lost one - but decided to let it go and found it when the race was over.) The run was four miles of trail running through the park. Lots of ups and down with no clear sense of how far you had gone. All I knew was that the water stations were supposed to be "about" every mile. (In actuality, there were only two that I saw. If there was a third - it felt like more than a a mile from the end) And that there was big hill in mile 3 or 4. The trail running was nice, much easier on my knees that asphalt. The problem was that my legs cramped like they have never cramped before. More than three separate times they cramped up so bad I wanted to stop and walk. I had to tell my self to keep moving lest they cramp more. One time it was my quads, then it was my hamstrings, then it was both. By the time I hit the "hill somewhere about mile 3-4" I cramped up again and barely made it up the hill. By this point I just wanted it to be over. I noticed, for the first time, that peoples ages were on the back of one leg - and wouldn't you know it - people in my age group were just now passing me... Hum. Finally, I looked at my watch and it was about 1:50 as I started to descend the "hill." Now, I just wanted to get out of this park and make my two hour goal. Of course, since the course was meandering through a park, I never knew how close I was to the finish. I kind of estimated that if was was not out of the trail part of the park and back in the flat grassy part of the park in 5 minutes, my goal of two minutes was done. I finally started to make my way back to the flat grassy part of the park at about 1:54. By this point I was so trying to manage the cramps just to get to the end. I had figured that eating chomps/chews, helped manage the cramps. (Of course by this point I was all out of chomps/chews...) Hit the grassy part of the park, and wouldn't you know it, another cramp in my hamstring. Again I had to push through it even though I wanted to stop and pushed on through the park to the finish line ahead. Honestly, the worst thing about the cramp was that a guy I had finally passed on the run, and caught back up to me.

As I approached the finish line, I looked up and saw 1:56 as I passed under it.

Post race: I will do this race again if only as a marker to see how I've improved from this year to next year.

Again, here I was really worried about my knee. I figured with a relatively good ride, the run we be what it would be. Actually, my knee never hurt. The cramping I attribute to not enough training and something off with my fueling. (This I will have to work on) I ultimately came in 26/33 in my age group. Best thing, I beat my goal. Next year I'll move up to the next age group. Down side of that, the fastest male - is in that age group. Fastest male this year was 42 yo and did it in 1:19. Oh well, so much for older means slower...

Edited by CTYoung 2011-10-10 8:03 AM

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10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

CANON -

Funny how it works, sometimes. I have thought about you periodically over the past few months, wondering what you were doing, and how you were doing, and where you had got to, and most recently this happened yesterday --- and then I check this morning and here you are. Cool beans!

GREAT hearing from you, and glad to see that you have carried on throughout the summer and managed a final '11 race a few weeks ago. Your report is very detailed, and now it comes back to me from earlier on -- you are a very cerebral person about this stuff. That is good in almost all respects, and the longer you stay with triathlon the more you will see the benefits of thinking through it all, as opposed to just going out there and doing the training and then doing the race. (That's really okay, too, though.)

But I see that the training did not go 100% smoothly, partly due to other commitments and partly due to the knee problem. And it IS a very real possibility that injury can result from lack of training, so you are wise to heed that possibility, always. But it sounds as if you kept your training efforts within the parameters of the race distances, so that was good. The fact that the race was a slightly over-long sprint didn't help you in that regard (better for your knee and all, had it been a 12-mile bike and a 3.1-mile run)........but at least it wasn't a full-blown olympic-distance!

Nice goal-setting! I don't know whether I should say that now or at the end, but I'll say it here -- nice goal-setting! It was all realistic, given your training and race times, and it sure is sweet that you managed to best it by several minutes. Sometimes we lose track of how long those minutes can be, and I always try to think of it as how far behind me (in terms of time) a fellow age-grouper can be at the turnaround of a run. ANYHOW, finishing four minutes faster than your goal is pretty huge, and ya gotta be pleased about that!

13 minutes for 700 yards, sans wetsuit, is quite good. I have done only one non-wetsuit tri, and that was ridiculously short and for it I wore a speed suit, but I have always wondered if the time lost during the actual swim on a sprint is gained back by not fussing with the wetsuit in T1. I have concluded (with no evidence) that it isn't, that I manage to change out of the wetsuit quick enough to make it better than swimming without. As with you, I would sure notice the lack of buoyancy if I went without!

Yes, putting on a tight top over a wet bidy can be quite the challenge, huh? If you have some disposable income and want to look at an option, go to www.desotosprot.com and check out thier 78-Degree Tri Top, or some similar name. It is designed to be worn on non-wetsuit swim, and provides virtually no drag while swimming. I do not have one of those tops, but own a couple of De Soto tops that are quite tight anyhow, and it's those I would wear if I ever couldn't wear my wetsuit.

I always wear my tri top under my setsuit, and the only race-day experience I have with getting something onto my wet body was on a cold day and trying to slither a semi-stight top over my tri top before heading off on the bike......and heaving an experience similar to yours. So, ever since then (it was June '03) I have just soldiered on with my wet and half-naked self, regardless of how cold the air is. But I digress!

Funny story about the goggles! That has yet to happen to me, but I'm sure at some time it will. And, you are not the first person I have seen who is sporting their goggles on the bike; just so you know.

As for the cramps, my guess is that they came in part from the HEED and gels. One on the bike probably would've been enough, with a second, maybe, just at the end before you set out on the run. Most gels are meant to be taken about every 45 minutes, so three might've been a bit of overkill that found your body working too hard to digest and assimilate. Maybe?

As for taking some time to get stuff into you, that's usually not a bad thing. I try to not go for any fuel until I am well-settled on the bike, and that's usually at about ten minutes. I know I take in water during the swim, so that's not an issue -- being parched. I may succumb to the urge to get some taste onto my tongue, but mostly I try to lay off any drinking or eating for a few miles on the bike.

Funny story, too, about the one glove and the Michael Jackson look. And, yes, i ahve seen that also, but far more commonly it's people running with BOTH cycling gloves still in place! FWIW, along about '03 or '04 I stopped wearing cycling gloves during races (and shortly after, stopped wearing them at all, ever). That just eliminated another something to fuss with, and saves me a few seconds at both T1 and T2. The big argument for us triathletes, racing on nice roads, for wearing them is to provide some protection to our hands if we crash, but I see crashes happening so seldom that I don't want to hedge my bets in that direction. (And, in my two overall crashes, my hands have not been in harm's way, anyhow.) Just a thought!

Good work on managing your cadence on the bike! I amy have mentioned that towards the end it is a good idea to vary your pedaling mechanics some, and when I do it, it involves going from a standing grind in big ring and small cog, to a faster spin, and repeated a few times. This wakes up my legs, at least for the musles that I will use more on the run. I did that to decent effect in several of my races this season.

Trail running -- you brave man, you! I have done only one or two raxces that involve trail-running, and I don't like them one bit. While I can appreciate that tyhey are more gentle, I dislike having to worry about roots and rocks and such, and also don't like not knowing exactly how far I've gone and where exactly I'm heading!

Now, having made the comment above about the gels, your cramping on the run suggests something was missing. It could've been that you worked slightly too hard on the bike, or maybe that you could've benefitted from a bit more HEED, seeing as how that contains a couple of electrolytes that help with cramping. I am not a chomp/chews guy, so I don't know what all is in them; guess I should check that out, huh? And, which gels do you use?

The othe thought with the cramping is that you were having to adjust to the difficult terrain, thus putting more foce from certain parts of your legs that you ween't previously prepared for. Maybe this relates to your idea of your training being not quite right?

Finally, as for your knee problems, it might be that one leg over- or under-prontates more than the other one, or maybe one leg is shorter than the other. Have you ever had a gait-analysis done? If there is a Fleet Feet store near you, you might want to go in and have your gait video-taped. This used to be a free service as part of their way of selling you shoes, and if so it is useful to do and good information to have.

Also, try analyzing the botom of your running shoes, studying the wear pattern and seeing if one shoe's wear is significanlty different from that of the other shoe. I check mine all-too-frequently, especially since year in and year out, the wear is pretty close to being the same. it will never be perfectly symmetrical or balanced, but ideally shouldn't be too far off, one from the other. In particular, look to see where the wear is in the front third of each shoe, as that often indicates where you are toe-ing off from, and that inturn indicates your degree of pronation. If you can see some telling wear patterns, feel free to try to describe them here, and I will try to interpret them for you.

Finally-finally, is Mendocino fairly nice? Lynn might be going therec for a conference of sorts in January, and I might tag along. Any thougyhts would be appreciated!

finally-fianlly-finally.............is your daughter an cae bike-rider now??

Good to have you back, keep in touch -- and congrats on a fine season-ender!!!

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10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JEFF -

Ah, lead me not into temptation!

However, seeing as how both last year and this year I have resisted the siren calls of late October races.......I amy not be so strong next year! So, it's sounding possibly/conceivably good, at least right now.

I have yet to do a Rev3 race, but the overwhelming opinion of them is very high. There is some rap that they haven't tried too hard to bring money-sense back to triathlon in terms of entry fees that are a fair bit lower than WTC, but seeing as how they seem more athlete-focused than WTC, i wouldn't hold that against them per se. (That is, if I can afford it, I will pay it to Rev3, while less inclined by a long shot to contribute to the WTC coffers.)

I know I have groused about WTC to you before, but here is my latest rant:

Tupper Lake half-iron is going into its 30th year, and is always the last weekend in June. Next year, Syracuse 70.3 is moving from its third week in Sept spot to ------- the weekend before Tupper. The two places are about 100 miles apart as the crow flies, and I am sure that many people eyeing a HIM in the northeast at the end of June will opt for the bells and whistles of Syracuse. And I'm sure that WTC knows that, too, and seems to be - at the very least - showing a considerable amount of disrespect to a very venerable old race. I understand that Syracuse had to move to another weekend.....but was a week before Tupper the ONLY time available?? If so, I'd like it explained, just so I can stop whining and kvetching!

That said, a few years ago Rev3 chose for its HIM in CT the same weekend as Mooseman in NH. Hmmmm.......

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

CANON again -

That top is called the Forza 78-degree Swim Top, and its DeSoto code is #FST. Even though it is called a "swim top", it is 100% designed to be worn throughout a race. The cost is ~$70.

Here's DeSoto's claim for it: "You will swim faster in this top than in no top at all....we guarantee it or your money back". DeSoto has about the best customer service on the planet, so if you got it and didn't like the fit or anything else, they would be very liberal in dealing with your concerns; thta is, probably a full refund.

Tempted??

Regular

108

Crystal Coast

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Steve,

Thanks for the race insights. I should of just stuck reading the post in the archieves concerning the race, however I started reading your early post concerning a tibial stress facture you recieved after running a marathon in Columbus (I think). Since I am starting to contemplate an IM next year, would you recommend running a stand alone marathon? My thought process is that if I do a stand alone in Feb. I should have enough time to recover and resume training. But.....now comes the risk of injury. I think I am talking myself out of it unless you think it may be of some benefit.

Considering your Sat night and Sunday morning it is amazing your Sunday race results improved on the bike and run at Bassman. I probably would of stayed in my sleeping bag . A couple of take aways I need to factor into my strategy is the slow down on the bike on the last few miles and ensure I do not overdose on the gels during the ride. Interesting note on using Pam spray on the legs. I have a sprint this Sat. which I will use spam vs. body glide. It was also good to read that you always race in your tri suit. I am having an ongoing debate with myself as to just change into my bike shorts and top and then into my running shorts and top at B2B or just stay in my tri and pull something over like Canon. The sprint this sat will help drive my choice since it will be in the low 70s for the race which is what I am anticipating for the B2B plus I will be starting after 0800, most likely closer to 0900. I do plan on slipping on my bike shorts. I will give up a couple of minutes for a little more comfort.

Thanks for the report and the post in the archives which I will also be reading, not sure all 200+ pages though.

JK

My Race Log

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

stevebradley - 2011-10-10 4:26 PM JEFF - Ah, lead me not into temptation! However, seeing as how both last year and this year I have resisted the siren calls of late October races.......I amy not be so strong next year! So, it's sounding possibly/conceivably good, at least right now. I have yet to do a Rev3 race, but the overwhelming opinion of them is very high. There is some rap that they haven't tried too hard to bring money-sense back to triathlon in terms of entry fees that are a fair bit lower than WTC, but seeing as how they seem more athlete-focused than WTC, i wouldn't hold that against them per se. (That is, if I can afford it, I will pay it to Rev3, while less inclined by a long shot to contribute to the WTC coffers.) I know I have groused about WTC to you before, but here is my latest rant: Tupper Lake half-iron is going into its 30th year, and is always the last weekend in June. Next year, Syracuse 70.3 is moving from its third week in Sept spot to ------- the weekend before Tupper. The two places are about 100 miles apart as the crow flies, and I am sure that many people eyeing a HIM in the northeast at the end of June will opt for the bells and whistles of Syracuse. And I'm sure that WTC knows that, too, and seems to be - at the very least - showing a considerable amount of disrespect to a very venerable old race. I understand that Syracuse had to move to another weekend.....but was a week before Tupper the ONLY time available?? If so, I'd like it explained, just so I can stop whining and kvetching! That said, a few years ago Rev3 chose for its HIM in CT the same weekend as Mooseman in NH. Hmmmm.......

Steve,

Rev3 in Sarasota in 2012 in a long way off but should you decide to do it you got a place to stay and you don't even have to bring a tent (unless you would like to camp out next to the pool on the lanai).

Regarding WTC/Syracuse etc... etc... I guess competition can be good and bad. In the case you just described the little guy is taking it on the chin. But with the introduction of REV3 and HITS next year WTC will have more competition. Personally, I like the idea of having more choices.

My Race Log

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

stevebradley - 2011-10-10 4:31 PM CANON again - That top is called the Forza 78-degree Swim Top, and its DeSoto code is #FST. Even though it is called a "swim top", it is 100% designed to be worn throughout a race. The cost is ~$70. Here's DeSoto's claim for it: "You will swim faster in this top than in no top at all....we guarantee it or your money back". DeSoto has about the best customer service on the planet, so if you got it and didn't like the fit or anything else, they would be very liberal in dealing with your concerns; thta is, probably a full refund. Tempted??

Well, did the top make you "swim faster than in no top at all"?

My Race Log

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42

Concord

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Thanks Steve for your insight. I completely forgot about the change gears/cadence to end the ride.

I would definitely go to Mendocino. It is absolutely beautiful and peaceful. The drive up from SF (where I assume you'd fly into) is equally enjoyable with tons of places to stop and enjoy. Let me know if you come and I will suggest more specific places. You should come. (Also depending upon the weekend, there are some races in Northern California - you know just to tempt you...)

I will check into the gait analysis and look at the shoes. I know the pain only comes after a few miles and I have contacted a run coach to see what help I can get there. You could be right on the bike cramping. I debated carrying fluid on the run. My wife has a hydration belt that I thought (obviously not enough) about using.

I used Gu brand gels and Gu chews. I like the chews for the run as they are easier to get down and don't need water to chase. I definitely think the cramping on the run was fuel related. I never thought the cramping on the ride could have been over eating. Good idea. Oh yea, I don't drink water on the swim, so I need to use the ride to fuel and hydrate but I think I could have planned the whole refueling thing better.

You are right, for everything that went down, I am pleased with my time. Now the only remaining question is how much can I cut from my time by next year...

Now I will start working on my winter workouts. I've decided to do a Napa Valley Tri in May (http://www.envirosports.com/default.asp?PageID=20871 ) to start 2012 and maybe even an Oly distance next year as well so I need to get back into working out. If you have any good sources for off season workouts or approaches, I'd appreciate it.

and no, the $70 tri top is not tempting. LOL

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

CANON -

Thanks for the props on Mendocino. I think this will happen.....and I probably will pass on races -- even though I know there are a couple of duuathlons around the time we will be there! I am not a happy flier, and have never flown to a race. Moreover, i am not a happy mechanic, so thjat just adds to the disincentive to never fly anywhere for a race, seeing as how I'd have to disassembel my bike and then put it back together again. Ack! Ack! So, it'll probably be just us, and with no races in the works.

I should go back and re-read your report, but I took it to be two types of cramping -- stomach on the bike, legs on the run; is that right? That was why I came up with maybe too many sugar-carbs on the ride, and then not enough of something or other on the run. But cramping in either of those areas can be more complex than just attributing it to what is taken into the system, so it's really just speculation.

I know that it might seem like a devil-and-the-deep-blue-sea kind of dilemma --- eating too much and cramp, not eat enough and cramp. What's a person to do?!?

This is one of the aspects that experience that comes into play, wherein over the course of xx training sessions and xx races, you begin to get a good handle on what your body needs and can accept. This can be not only quantity, but also the more specific aspects such as "Hammer doesn't work for me, but Gu does", or "I can handle gels, but chews and bars are too much when I'm racing".

For now, then, I wouldn't worry that you have a "chronic" condition, kind of a predisposition to cramping in any of its myriad forms.......but play around with quantity and quality and timing to figure out a plan that works for you. The caveat there is that what works in races A, B, C, and D may fail miserably in race E; I would like a nickle for every race in which my "tried-and-true" nutrition protocol has failed me!

As for the fuel belt, i have never used one; I guess it falls into the category of something else to fuss with. That said, though, here is a LOT to be said for being in control of your own fuel supplies, especially when it comes to drinks. It seems to be that for aid stations on runs, 83% have drinks mixed too weak, 11% have them too strong....and 6% are in the just-about-right category. At Buffalo a few weeks ago, the drink was mixed so strongly it could choke a horse. Mercy!

For sprints and olys, I think most people can make do with what's at aid stations, given that the even too-weak ones have some benefits. It really is pretty much a slurp-and-go proposition, mostly just to ensure keeping going. Overall, the bike is the place to try to lock-in the good food plan, at least as far as liquids is concerned.

Finally, let me think about off-season plans. For now, though, look into "Periodization" for a general approach to working out a plan that encompasses an entire year. It's actually less of a plan than it is a template, or strategy, for structuring a season/year based on timing of events, the importance of certain events, and when a full period of off-seasonal downtime will occur. The mastermind of Periodization is Joe Friel, and nowadays most serious training plans incorporate his protocols. But bug me if I don't get back to you about this!

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JEFF -

I've been a DeSoto freak since I began this stuff back in '00, but that top is one I have yet to try. Part of that is because I think it probably favors strong swimmers, which of course I am not. I have one of the Blue Seventy "speed suits" that I lug to all my races just in case one is declared not wetsuit-legal, and the only time I have used it is at the Super-Sprint in Chicago in '08. I had bought it the day before and was curious about it, and also it is a short-enough swim that I thought the balance between the speed suit's attributes, weighed against a regular wetsuit and having to remove it after such a short swim, made the speed suit a smarter move (I think it was).

But the other reason is the cut of thbat 78-degree swim top, which is T-back. The cut of the top you see in my photo here is what I always wear from May on. That is, i never wear a top with less coverage, and never even wear a conventional cycling top with short sleeves. So, my tan-line is pretty entrenched, from the knob of my shoulders on down. The flip side is that I have NO sun exposure on any other part of my torso, meaning that that top would be sunburn hell for me. ARGHH!

Thanks for the invite for a place to stay, and just so you know -- the tent is almost always the last place I want to be! I generally sleep poorly anyhow (I woke up a bit after 3 this morning; why, i do not know), and in a tent just increases the probability of a lousy sleep. (As a digression, sleep is one of my limiters.) Some places, though, it actually works, such as Bassman in the fall (or its spring version, even), when there are few people around in the campground anyhow, and the race is in the park itself, and the nearest motels are about 30 minutes away. Then the tent makes some sense. Otherwise........

Yes, competition is good -- just as long as David is the aggressor and Goliath is the besieged!

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JK -

Good post, good questions, valid concerns. I will do this in a couple of parts, with the marathon thoughts to follow this one.

I use both BodyGlide and Pam. BG is for my neck, to prevent "wetsuit hickeys" (painful AND unsightly), while Pam is for my lower legs. I find that the wetsuit goes down to the knees easily enough when being removed, but from there on down is where the struggle more often hapens. Liberallly-sprayed Pam allows my arms to just slide down the insides of my wetsuit as I'm sort of wedging it down, and then the Pam on the outside of the wetsuit, from the knee area down, just allows the suit to slip and slide over itself better. And depending on how tight your wetsuit is on your arms and wrists, you might want to use BG or Pam there as well. My suit just yanks easily over the wrists, so I only use BG on my neck and Pam (or BG, but it's not as slippery) on the lower legs.

When you say bike shorts, are you referring to ones that have a standard cycling pad? If so, this is a big topic of discussion amongst people doing half-irons or irons -- just when to change, and what into. I never use padded cycling shorts, as my tri bottoms fortunately work well for me. That is, I can ride for long periods without any discomfort, even though my tri bottoms (DeSoto) have only a minimal amount of padding -- not even enough to count as a pad!

So for every race I have done, right up through the two irons, that is all I have worn. BUT, the discussion begins when people want to be as comfortable as possible over the long haul, and so wrestle with the idea of wearing their padded bike shorts for up through the bike leg, and then changing in the change tent into conventional running shorts. The downside to this is that it takes time and requires another level of organization (making sure the right clothes are in the T2 bag!!!!), but people who do it attain a certain peace-of-mind that carris them nicely onto (and hopefully through!) the run.

I have never treid on a wetsuit bare-topped, as I want to make sure that what I'm trying on will fit well over my tri top. That's non-negotiable! As I think I said to Canon, it makes for a race or two each eason in which I hread out on the bike chilly, and just hope and pray that I warm up in due course. The concessions I make are basically two: I may have toe-warmers on my cleats, and/or I amy have arm-warmers draped on my aerobars -- just in case. I periodically practice slipping them off the bars and onto my arms while riding, and whenever I have used them in a race I have waited until my arms have air-dried so they go on fairly easily. This season my aerobars wore them at Nickel City oly and Bassman, but I never got to the point where I needed them myself. The tow-warmers, however, came in handy at Bassman!

As for the archives reference, that really was just for the Bassman report -- although I'm sure there are many pearls throughout all the other pages!

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JK again -

As I live and breathe, I really do support the idea of slowing down a bit at the end of the bike. I don't do it every time, but it is just reinforced when I realize that my two strongest runs this year came from rides in which I backed off a bit over the final part of the bike. It's not really a "I'm going to slow down now" thing, but rather just an easing-up on my perceived power output. (Here's where it would be really nice to have gizmos that showed me the wattage I am generating.) Of course, this costs me some time on the bike, but if done in a balanced way it is made up for on the run -- at least in terms of a comfortably successful run, and possibly even in overall time.

Any little bit helps, and even over the final mile would give some benefits. For me it is a bit more than just dialing back the power, it is also "mixing-up" the cadence -- maybe 10-15 seconds in a hard gearing and out-of-the-saddle, and then into 10-15" easy geringa nd a faster spin, and repeating that a few times. The ones that help most with the running legs are the standing grinds, just to stretch out the muscles that have been in a more cramped position for most of the ride. The final few hundred yards are best for me in the big ring and maybe my 3rd or 4th smallest cog -- something I can push in, but not needing to work real hard at.

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JK once moe -

Wellllllllll.........seeing as how you asked.........

My thought is that pre-iron you want to get as close to 26.2 miles as is possible. Partly top keep my own thoughts stright here, I will do some thinking in point form:
-- most marathon training plans call for long runs of 20-23 miles
-- most people think this is sufficient, and that a combination of adrenaline and ample aid stations wil carry a person over those final unknown 3-6 miles
-- for an iron, there is a lot to worry about -- and running 26.2 miles after riding 112 and swimming 2.4 can be very daunting

Okay. Those are some principal considerations, and the strong feeling I have on it is that it is almost imperative that you knock off, at the very least, a couple of 22-milers before your first iron distance race. If you do these in the form of a bonafide marathon, that would maybe be best, BUT it wil also work to just do the long runs as part of your training, or even to do a "mock" marathon on your own (that is, with "pre-planted aid stations" along your route).

It is almost cruelly ironic that the necessity of doing a pre-iron marathon increases for people who are either relatively inexpereinced runners, or runners who don't cotton to the idea of doing big running miles. But that goes back to the third point above, that in the woory-world of doing an iron, one definietly wants to minimize the often colossal worry that goes into having to run 26.2 miles when maybe 6-9 hours of work has preceded it.

Having said all that seemingly dire stuff, in a sense you are in a good training spot for a marathon with B2B on the horizon. If you come out of B2B feeling relatively okay, then you can rest a week before jumping into a marathon training mid-stream. Most marathon plans will have many weeks before they hit the half-marathon point, which of course is what you will be doing at B2B. So I would say to jump inyto a plan when it is calling for 10- or 11-mile long runs...........and merrily proceed from there!

This would provide a few benefits:
(1) reduce the length of a full plan
(2) get you ready for a winter or spring stand-alone marathon IF you wanted to do that
(3) provide ample recovery time before launching into a dedicated iron training plan

Yes, risk of injury is there in marathon training, but it's better to know sooner than later how your body will respond to that level of training. If it's B2B iron you are considering, then it is ideal to work at long running distances BEFORE you put down all that money; I'm not sure B2B ever sells out the iron distance, so you have lots of waffle-room before registering.

The world is full of people who have signed up for, say, Ironman Lake Placid ---- and then somewhere in the next 364 days have gotten themselves injured and needed to bail on the race and have eaten most of the $600 registration fee. That's a huge benefit to choosing an independent iron that doesn't seel out, or if it does then it won't happen until about a month out from the race.

Of course, an injury can hapen at any point, and I have had two marathons in my life scratched due to injuries in the final two weeks of training. But I am hardly bionic at the longer distances, so don't use me as the poster boy for all marathon and iron training; many, many, many people train for these things withh impunity, either by virtue of being smater or more structurally sound than I am!

Sooooooo......I say that a pre-iron marathon would be ideal, but not essential. The requisite miles ARE essential, but that rally does vary from person to person, and involves their time for training, and their durability, and their specific race goals. There are lots of people who are happy enough to just finish an ironman that they will be content to walk much of it, which is where so many of those 6- and 7- and 8-hour "run" times come from. But, those longer times can also come from other sources, and under-training is far from the only culprit. The iron distance can be a very cruel and unpredicatble mistress!

Lemme know what you think!

And, which sprint is it you're doing?

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JK - yet more, once again!

To balance what I said in the above post about marathons, below are the long runs in the planbook by Matt Fitzgerald. The different marathon plans are divided into three sections, roughly according to ability and experience and goals. You might consider Levels 1-3 to be Beginner, Levels 4-6 Intermediate, Levels 7-10 Advanced.

For L1 to L3 the long run is 2:45, and for both L4-6 and L7-10 it is 3:00. So,as your math will quickly tell you, these are not even close to full marathon distance equivalents. For me, at absolute peak form, I would be happy if I could be at 20 miles at the 3-hour mark of an ironman. He does have a bunch of weeks at 2:40 and 2:50, but still -- it is not all that close to a marathon equivalent. However, he may not say it but I think he is assuming that for people in 7-10, they are not new to iron-distance.

He does NOT assume that for Levels 1-3, which would be you in your first iron-distance race. So, maybe let your mind rest a bit easier, knowing that there are plans out there that require neither a previous marathon nor a training volume that nudges up close to the time/distance you will require on race day.

Just so you know!!

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

CTYoung - 2011-10-10 1:19 AM