GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 52)

STEVE:

Got the cortisone shot today! I was able to get in this afternoon since they had a cancellation. The shot itself was not as terrible as I had anticipated, thankfully. And it's not bothering me at all now. We'll see how it feels on my next run on Friday, although the podiatrist did say it can take up to a week to feel better...

ANNE -

"When will all this torture end??"

Oh, probably when I get slightly better, or choose my races much more strategically and judiciously!

DENISE -

Um, er, it's not that I check them every day, but more like that I check them 2 or 3 times a day!

I weigh myself daily, but thank goodness I don't have stocks or I'd maybe be the same with those!

I'll have to check some of the names in F65-69 to see who the superstars are. I know they won't be professionals, but what did surprise me checking through all those age groups a few days ago was how many of the established pro and elite athletes are included in the rankings. I think I thought thtat a pro card meant that you couldn't be included in the rankings. Not that that is a problem for anyone 50+, but there are a lot of regular age-group "kids" - especially in 35-39 and 40-44 - who are getting bumped by the professionals. There oughta be a law!

ANNE -

I'm still dutifully sifting through those two plans, and I'll tell you first thoughts, re long rides.

Well, first, the Fitz plans are also 20 weeks, and have 8 weeks of Base, 6 weeks of Build, and 6 weeks of Peak. I am looking at Level 1 for you, simply becasue of your unique circumstances - the HIM itself is sans run, and it is actually geared towards the shorter-than-HIM distances of Muskoka.

Fitz has three long rides -- 2:30 in week 13; 2:45 in week 15; and 3:00 in week 17.
Silver has three long rides -- 1:30 on Sat. and 2:30 on Sun of week 11; 2:30 in week 15; 3:00 in week 18.

Six of one, half dozen of the other, you think?

Lynn just got home, so I have to scuttle upstairs and be attentive. Bye for now!

6 weeks of build and 6 weeks of peak sounds better than the silver, maybe?   The silver has 4 wks of prep before the base even starts and I'm thinking I'm sort of doing prep (training to train, I think you called it) now; which gives me lots of time to be prepared to start the Plan.  

Re long rides, we do like to ride alot and last year I remember asking a person who coaches if there was a point where I should put a cap on the distance.   Is one a week too much?   

We are going to Florida on April 8th and will be doing that bike tour with the Florida Freewheelers starting on April 17th which will be end of Week 6 and Week 7 if I start a 20 wk pan on March 8th.    We will ride 3 days from Live Oak area then bike up to the border of Georgia near some big lake for 3 days of cycling from that base camp.   First 3 days flatter rides than last 3 days with 80 to 100km per day.   There are 2 century rides offered as well.   Won't make a decision on that now.    We planned this last year thinking it would be a good head start to our cycling season.    A friend (who biked across Canada last year) has done this Florida trip twice and will be there again this year.   Supposed to be really well run with good food.  

SO, I should be OK with long rides from either plan.  

That is very generous of you to offer to feed me the workouts from the Fitzgerald book.    You are an awesome mentor!

Edited by midlifeinsanity 2010-05-24 7:36 AM

M -

Good questions ----- to which I woefully do not have good answers. I will look into it further, but for now......

Most competitive Athenas and Clydesdales will find themselves more competitive in those categories than in their own age group, especially if they are in some of the hyper-competitive age groups (definitely 35-39 and 40-44, and less at 30-34 and 45-49). The downside is that they are racing against all of the C & A, and not just people in their a.g.

At Timberman sprint last August (I just checked these results), the top three Athenas were age 41, 45, and 35. The winner would've even won her actual age group (41-44), but the other two would not have been in the top five places of their age groups (that's as far as the awards list extended for the age groups, but it stopped at the top 3 for A & C). I know the top woman, Heather Koerber, quite well, and I will email her and ask why she competes Athena instead of a.g. And just as an aside, I know her well because I coached her in junior varisty girls basketball back in '82-'83, so if that doesn't make me feel old I don't know what will. I mean, she's 41 and was just in grade 8 or 9 when I coached her! (She's not only a talented triathlete, but she's also brilliant, having gone to Hsarvard, but I never had the opportunity to teach her. Drats.)

Some races will have scales there for people to weigh-in on race day, and if they don't qualify anymore I think they just drop down to the age group; I guess this is done by the timing people at the time. Other races just do it on an honor basis, no weigh-in required.

But as I said above, i will try to figure out how this all works and what is involved in any switcheroos. And I think it might go both ways, also including people who wnat to race in A or C but didn't register for it. I'll see what I can learn for you!

Edited by midlifeinsanity 2010-05-24 7:37 AM

STEVEB - you are right, a pool swim workout today. Forgot how much I enjoy swimming, and happy to be back in the pool. Now tomorrow calls for a bike but might do a switch on you and do a run instead!

STEVE:

Question for you about the metatarsal lifts. Where did you ultimately end up placing yours? The one placed on my shoe insert by my podiatrist is located in the center just below the balls of my foot. But it seems like it would make the most sense for it to be placed below the ball of the foot itself, since that would seem to result in the best "spreading" of the joints, but he assured me it was placed correctly.

Your thoughts?

Thanks!

M -

Not getting a whole lot of new information for you, but as for weight threshold it is generally 150. It seems some races will dabble with 145 or 140, but 150 is the norm. I expect that USAT will standardize this very soon, at least for their sanctioned races.

Overall health is a good approach, to be sure! For me that takes the form of trying to eat wisely, which ttakes the form of trying to reduce the amount of junk that goes into me. For a few years between 54 and 57, roughly, I was vegetarian, and that was very interesting. I started by dabbling in it just as a way of eating moe sensibly, but it quickly took over my entire eating regimen. The thing that eventually sent me back to being an omnivore was the massive amount of cooking I had to do to keep enough variety in my meals, but at least for a few years there I'm convinced that my vegetarianism contributed to my overall health.

For my own weight, I see it three ways: what I weigh if I eat whatever I want, whenever I want; what I weigh in the peak of my competitive race season; what I weigh "normally". The first one doesn;'t count, because I haven't done that in years. The third one, the normal one, is what usually happens from December to June, and I will find my weight going up to about 180; I try to fight this some, but not much. The middle one is what I focus on, but I view it as a "suppressed" weight -- the effects of intensive and extensive working-out. I view it this way just because inexorably my weight climbs back up when I reduce my training volume somewhat. I may swim/bike/run/lift 6-8 hours a week in the off-season, but my weight will creep back up, regardless.

This past season it took me a very long time to get down to 175 or lower, and in late July I was still at 178. Normally I am at 175 by then , but it took me so long last year thta I actually began to wonder if some subtle physiological chang had occurred. But I was a 174 or so by early September, and hit a low of about 171 during my fall marathon training. I am at 175 this morning ---- but that could easily waver up to 176/177 if I do nothing today. So, if I want to keep it down, I have to work(out) to "suppress" it!

ANNE -

I'm working at figuring out how Silver differentiates between Base and Build and Peak. Seeing as the Silver long rides are roughly akin to the Fitz long rides, I'm not sure why Silver has no designated Peak and just a small Build. is it only a question of semantics?
Hmmmm.

On a more miserable note, this morning finds me on the outside looking in - 54/538, with #53 is the last HM. Ack. So it goes. The guys in #1 and #2 have bogus scores, but the #2 guy will be above me without the benefit of one massively and impossibly race score. Well, as Yogi Berra (or was it Casey Stengel?) said, it ain't over 'til it's over.

And to add insult to injury, the fantasy hockey league that my kids roped me into joining finds me in last place this morning. I have never done fantasy anything before, and I have kind of had fun with this. But in a five-person league, I have gone from 2nd to 5th in just a little over a week, waking this morning to find my daughter 7 points ahead of me. (Seven points is nothing, but still.) Sigh.....

Lousy morning here in the flatlands.

TRACEY -

Interesting you should ask that! I found the same thing with some suggestions for placement for my pads, and ended up going with what you say - where the pad can speread the metatarsals. So I ended up locating mine more under the ball of the foot, aiming so that the front part of the pad was just underneath where I perceived the neuroma to be. This was a compromise, I guess -- part of it more towards the midddle of the foot as was recommended, part of it more forward and under the nerve bundle.

I've got something else to throw your way, but I do this cautiously. In '07 I started to develop a neuroma in the other (left) foot, and while it was never a big problem, it was a minor-league nuisance. Then in Nov. '07 I bought a pair of Newton running shoes, and almost from the first step of my first run in them, the neuroma became a non-issue. I have since done hundreds of runs in newtons, and it ramins the same for me. The funny thing about it is that once I stop RUNNING in the Newtons and then walk some, as in post-run cool-downs, I can feel the neuroma. But somehow the structure of the shoe works perfectly with my foot to neutralize the neuroma.

If you are not familiar with Newtons, go to www.newtonrunning.com. You will see that they are kind of revolutionary, and on the link to the injury prevention part of the website they actually say that the lugs serve to separate the metatarsals -- and for me it seems to work that way!!

The reason I am cautious about mentioning Newtons is because they are not for everyone, and because the running style they encourage can contribute to aches and injuries in the early stages. They encourage a midfoot or forefoot running style, which is good but which can also lead to calf and Achilles issues during the adjustment period -- and for me that period lasted several months. I ended up with a good case of plantar fasiitis, and that was a new one for me. Achilles too. It was not a smooth transition at all, and the husband of one of the people in my other group stared with them after Christmas and is currently having lower leg problems.

In time I became a much more efficient runner, but I paid a pretty good price in getting there. If I had it to do all over again, I would still work on being more of a forefoot/midfoot striker, but I'd just go through the processs more slowly and patiently.

Now, this is NOT a problem with Newton shoes per se, but rather how "recklessly" one initially runs in them in an attempt to alter their running style. The short story here is that the further forward one lands on their feet, the more the calves have to work, so at the very least one can expect some initial calf soreness. But this can easily work its way down to the Achilles, or even to the arch of the foot -- even though plantar fasciitis is an arch/heel issue, its genesis is in compromised and/or weakened calves.

ANYHOW, I'm just mentioning Newton running shoes as something that works extremely well for my neuromic tendencies. And those lugs? They sit right under the balls of my feet, and even a bit forward off them! They are expensive, but I'm now in my tenth pair with no real thoughts of returning to a conventional running shoe. But if you are at all tempted, let's talk about this some more.

Great to hear from you Diane and also GREAT news about the shoulder!    Looking forward to hearing all about the new bike once you get it up and running.  

I don't think you are the only one with some inconsistent training.    I'm really up and down and just can't seem to get going with my running.   Glad that things are settling down for you.  

Hi all!

Wow, disappear for 6 days and look at all the posts.  Looks like some good stuff on periodization I need to look through. 

New Orleans was great. Worked out Thursday before leaving. did nothing but walk and eat and drink on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  I was exhausted on all three, and will attribute that to the walking, not the drinking.  :-)

Monday managed to get in a good run and swim between conference meetings and flew home yesterday.  Will bike tonight, run/swim tomorrow and be back on schedule for the weekend.  I'm really hoping that the couple of days off will really help me focus and that I've done some healing as well.  I've got 2 more weeks of build before the 10-week Peak/Taper into IMSG.

I'll need to read up once I catch up here at work.

SteveA
I LOVE New Orleans - 2 years ago we were there and I did my runs thru the French Quarter in the am - looks a lot different in the morning.  Streets are all one-way which made it easier to check for traffic.  A little hot for me though, even in the am.

Diane
So glad things are coming round for you.  Your stationary bike work will pay off.

Denise

DIANE -

Well, if that isn't fine news, I don't know what is! What a difference a week makes, and even though it is not fully explainable, take what is being offered and make the most of it. I am so glad that your trainer is right on top of everything you're doing, and it must be a big source of comfort for you to have her monitoring you so closely. Anyhow, double the distance with half the post-swim aches? Sounds great to me!

And a bike on its merry way to you. Hot diggity! may it get to you by the weekend!

STEVE -

I was worried about you! If you had mentioned going to NoLa for a while, i forgot about it. Whooooosh -- and it's gone!

As for your training.....it was probably time for a recovery week anyhow, right?

And was your last sentence a mistake? Didn't you mean to write "I'll catch up at work once I read up here."? Well, I knew that's what you meant, anyhow!

ANNE -

I just visited your log, and saw your comments about the neuroma, feeling off, and the knee/elliptical problem. How is the knee now? Has it ever acted up before on the elliptical?

Between you and me and Tracey, we ought to set up a group within the group -- a support group for neuromae. Seeing as how bad things often come in threes, I terrified that with the two of you suffering currently, I'll be the unlucky third! I must send mojo to myself to keep my neuromae tame and gentle!

Thanks Steve.   I think we actually need to start calling you DOC!   At first I thought it was my knee but it stopped after 3 minutes on the elliptical and then when I was 'feeling around' the tenderness/tightness was actually well below knee cap (2 inches?) on the right hand side of the shin? bone.   I think it may be some kind of tendonitis.   I iced it yesterday and had no troubles with yoga.   Doesn't feel too bad this morning when I run my fingers firmly over the area. 

The neuroma is really starting to ANNOY me to put it gently.   I got squeezed in next Wed at the podiatrist and am going to get my feet re-evaluated.   I really am beginning to doubt I even need orthotics.    I have had nothing but problems since I got them and when I went for a 2nd opinion I think he just gave me another pair with the metatarsal pad because he thought I wanted orthotics.    When I first got them the pain was between 3rd and 4th toes but now it is between big toe and the one beside it. 

I am going to run 2 km again today with some other shoes - no orthotics and also do a 20km ride so will let you know how it feels.   

Hope you're not the 3rd victim.  

ANNE -

Just the person I wanted to hear from! Actually, what I wanted to do was tell you how the Fitz scedules are set up, as I know you have a system of doing things that works really well for you.

He treats Mondays as rest days - never anything on Mondays. I'll do it as a list:
Monday -- rest
Tuesday -- cycling
Wednedsday -- swim and run
Thursday -- cycling
Friday -- swim and run
Saturday -- cycling or bricks
Sunday -- swim and run (or rarely swim and brick)

And his bricks are always bike/run, never swim/bike or an oddball combo.

Does that scheme of things come close to working for you?


As for the knee ache you had yesterday, my experience tells me that if it is below the knee on the inside it could be pes anserinus, and on the outside it could be the the popliteal (sp?) tendon. Anyhow, google those to see how they fit with what you were feeling.

Pes anserinus is kind of cool, etymologically and structurally. The anserines are the goose family, and pes anserinus refers to what is known as the "goosefoot" tendons -- I think three of them, that bifurcate and resemble a goose's foot. (How's that for a cocktail party chatter topic?!?)

When I have soreness on the outside of my knee below the kneecap, it is never all that far down and I worry that it is ITB stuff. But when I have had aches on my pes anserinus, they seem to be far enough down that it is hard to confuse them with anything else. Having said that, though, when I tore my meniscus it was medial, right side, so if my p.a. starts to hurt a bit there, I get all nervous that I've done something terrible to my meniscus again. (I know --- worry, worry, worry.) For me, p.a. is not a deal-breaker, just a soreness or dull ache that goes away with a bit of ice and a bit of rest (like, a day or so).

Lemme know!

And on my all-consuming topic of USAT points, after my devastating fall from grace yesterday morning I managed to rebound some by late afternoon so I was 51/538, with two below me. I did not dare check it last night before bed, and I haven't looked this morning -- it's a pretty day here, and I don't want to cast a pall over it!

GREAT TRAINER MOVIES -- part 3

"Inglorious Basterds" got me through two sessions yesterday -- 90 minutes in the morning, 60 minutes in the evening. Running time is 2:38, I think, so it is ideal for one long session or two split sessions.

Probably any Quentin Tarantino movie is great for whiling away time on the trainer......but one has to have a certain constitution in order to abide his stuff!

ANNE again -

I suppose that if three tendons are involved, it is a matter of trifurcating, not bifurcating. Yes?

STEVE.

Haven't read your previous post yet.   Have to run - back around 2:00