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2011-10-13 6:43 AM
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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!


JEFF -

YES!!! Use '12 as a gear-up-for-new-a-g in '13; perfect!

Really, you should notice a difference. Some of the 45-49 haven't even hit puberty yet in terms of their tri development, and (sadly for the rest of us) reach full-blown maturity as 50-54.

Fifty-five, here you come!!




2011-10-13 6:55 AM
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JK -

Don't put yopur money on what I said quite yet! Remember, M.F. is the esteemed expert in this stuff, not me. My thoughts come from my own experience, plus that too of the camp that supports the idea that more running distance = less worry at first IM.

as for my own experience, that was 5 or 6 stand-alone marathons prior to IMLP in '04. Plus, one of them was a pretty fast qualifier for Boston, and as for Boston, I handled that well enough on a very, very hot day. So, heading into IMLP I had someconfidence in my ability to go kinda fast, and also to do 26.2 in the heat. I had also had a few less-than-stellar marathons, so they helped me realize that the suffering is usually temporary, and that walking at tims is not the death of mankind (or even me!).

That said, however, it is dangerous to put too much stock in a stand-alone marathon when compared against an ironamn marathon, somewhat is the way that it is dangerous to view the 13.1 of a half-iron as merely half the distance of an IM run. That is, so much can happen during those preceding 114.2 miles (S&B), as well as all the training leading up to it, to practical level the validity of comparisons. Still, the confidence that one has done those distances (2.4; 112; 26.2) is huge, and is the wellspring from which I drank when things got tougher/-est doing IM.

FWIW, though, I had not doen 112 prior to IMLP; maybe one 100-miler was all. There may have been a second....but i think that was about 96; ought to check that. But that is the same sort of logic that eneters into thr marathon run -- that getting close to the distance is what matters, because on race-day the combination of adrenaline and ample aid stations can make up any (most?) shortfalls in training.

Gotta split the scene now, I'll be back this evening.





2011-10-14 8:22 PM
in reply to: #3435045

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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Steve,

I like the idea of continuing with running (I do not believe I typed that statement) for a marathon in Feb. in Myrtle Beach,   SC and then picking up on a IM plan.  The B2B would probably be a great starter IM, however, with it being in Oct. I am a bit nervous about running the required milage during the summer months.  So I will probably start "shopping" around for a June IM time frame.  Not sure if that would give me enough time to work up the bike and swim leg though.  Anyway, that is the path my mind is starting to wander down.  In the meantime, its sprint time tomorrow and of course I went out and did a 2.5 hour ride, half of which was in a 15-20 mph head wind.  Great for the ego on the way back but my legs are starting to feel it tonight.  Hopefully the wind will calm down tonight otherwise the swim will most likely be cancelled. 

JK

2011-10-14 9:06 PM
in reply to: #3724744

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JK -

I will send mojo that the wind dies down overnight. May you have calmish seas in the morning!

On my own swim-front, I very likley did my last OWS of '11. The next week is predicted to get no higher than about 55, with daytime highs ranging from 51 to 55. The water today was 62, but at least the air was several degrees warmer, meaning that at least when my hands exited the water on each recovery stroke, they travelled through comfortable air. And now, that's all about to end.

So, barring an unexpected glitch in the week-long forecast, I'm outta open water until May (last year it was the 17th, this year the 29th). This year was great, though, with 85 OWS (including the seven that were races), and it probably turned out to be 80-90 miles of open water swimming in those 19 weeks. I'm not sure I've ever done that much; ought to check that, i guess.

But I digress!

Yes, I see your dilemma about IM. I too would be leery of trying to do big running in the summer, and I also see the problem of getting the swim and bike in line for June or so. Hmmm.

I will think about some plans and counting back from October, as it might turn out that you would be doing the bulk of your bigger miles in September. Just thinking quickly now, if B2B is on last Oct weekend again, that would make it about the 27th. the previous weekend might be a step-back weekend, maybe 15 miles. The previous weeknd to that, the 12/13 would be the last of the big mile ones, say 20 or 21. Two weeks before that might be similar, and that would be Sept 29, maybe. And about mid-Sept it would be a few miles less, so say 14-16 miles. How's that sound?

Basically, then, you're spending the summer gearing up for B2B, and that far out from it, in your climate zone, would alow for you to avoid the days that are real scorchers. Overall, that might be easier than working hard between now and June. What do you think?

Also, the timetable I conjured up two paragrapsh above this was my thinking on distance running; remember, Matt Fitzgerald wees things much differently, with less big miles in prep for an IM. That's one of the things I will check over the next few days....and if I forget, keep bugging me!

Have fun tomorrow! And if you try that varied pedaling at the end (not freally necessary for a sprint), rmember that it's not just furious-fast cartoon-like spinning, but rather an increased cacence while still having some force to gear against. The small ring in front and your big cog in back will have you in cartoon form, so what you want in back is a few cogs smaller -- maybe your third smallest?

Wave-dampening (damping?) mojo, coming your way!!





Edited by stevebradley 2011-10-14 9:07 PM
2011-10-15 6:38 AM
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JK again (10 hours later....) -

The conditions look good -- 61 right now, and winds from the west at just 0-5mph. At least that shouldn't make for massive breakers, piling up on the shore.....should it?

Have a good one!



2011-10-15 1:38 PM
in reply to: #3435045

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All....

Emerald Isle Sprint Race Report.....

Weather....mid 60s with a water temp of 73 and light winds out of the SW at 5 mph. Clear skies almost perfect conditions expect for the 4 foot breakers coming in  Yell. Race start time was scheduled was 0800, however, it was a paid day week-end for the Coast Guard and they set the bouys about 30 minutes late.  Transition racks were set parrell to the swim entrance and bike exit.  The transition is between the beach and highway so this was a great way to set the racks.  Additionally, the outer rack was not reserved so I was able to get a close spot to the bike entrance/run exit (T2)which was good since my assigned spot was back by the T1 entrance.  Even better yet was there was a fully loaded cooler with water bottles (not sure why) under the rack so I took the spot right next to it and did not have any neighbors.  Overall set up was good, I arrived about 1 and 15 min. prior to race time and the transition parking was filled already which surprised me, but I parked across the road which did not provide to much of a problem . 

The race had 3 waves, males <45, wave 2 was teens, women, and teams, third wave all big and talls and males 45 and up (I am a MC). I did have a gel at 0730 which I thought was 30 min prior, however, with the delay it turned into an hour.  That was my only nutrition for the race (oatmeal at 0530). 

Swim....Well the breakers seperated the surfers from the non-surfers and I am a non-surfer.  It was rough.  There were 3 bouys on a counter clockwise swim which was with the current.  The first bouy was still in the breakers and hard to sight.  Upon entering I was knocked down, the second wave knocked off my glasses and it felt like I was back on the beach, second wave repeat of the first , and of course the 3rd wave was a repeat of the first 2 however, I could no longer stand to put my googles back on.  Getting to that 1st bouy was tough.  I could not catch my breath, heavy intake of saltwater, and my form went to survival mode (I had none and I think I was just all out flailing).  I noticed the life guard was next to me and I think that brought me to my senses.  Focus on form, extended side rolls to ensure I was taking in air, and calm down.  I made the first bouy and I was in the back of the pack, however, my heart rate was in the 170 range and it wasn't looking good. Normally, I start swims slow since my heart rate tends to jump up and I get winded, so I typically just "warm up" unitil I hit the first bouy.  This was not the case today.  Moving to the second bouy I was swimming in swells and with the current.  I finally talked myself into regaining composure and focused on form which is not that easy I learned in swells.  Made the turn in the second bouy in fairly good position, and then went for number three.  Heart rate was still high but coming down and breathing was returning to normal instead of gasping.  Made turn 3 on a good line, slower pace was required since sighting was harder and the bouy was back in the breakers.  I had visions that the final swim to the beach would be easy since I could "ride a wave" in.  That didn't work in fact at one time I found myself with no water underneath my chest and into the wave I went.  Finally made it to the beach with a heart rate of 163 and winded.  It was about a 30 yd run/stagger to the ramp back to T1 which I spent trying to undo my suit velcro at the neck.  I am going to have to practice that.  Good news is I put the end of my zipper leash in the velcro and it stayed out of my way.  Prior to this, I had typically just let it trail me, however, it always ended up under my arm which was annoyance.  Anyway T1 never looked so good.

No problems in T1, lots of room.  I did take my time (like I had a choiceLaughing) and left on the bike with a heart rate in the 145 range.  I had a little problem clipping in, most likely due to my breathing more than anything else.  However, once I was in, my girl knew what to do and I was on home turf. The road was paved this spring and the police did a great job blocking traffic and giving riders priority.  Focused on trying to keep the heart rate below 150, I gave up on trying to get down to the 135 range.  But I was tempted to let go and take off, but thoughts of my prior race kept me tempered.  A half mile out from T2 I shifted to high gear, got my butt out of the saddle and starting to stretch and slow.  I went into T2 feeling pretty good.  Racked my girl, changed to my running gear and off I went.  I think I finished 29/159 (159 registered not sure how many showed up) on the ride.

No problems coming out of T2, legs felt good, and the heart rate was in the low 140s.  However, after .25 miles my heart rate was at the 150 mark, which I decided was going to have to be the range.  I had debated doing run/walk but with this short of a race I think I would of lost time overall.  So I kept the heart in the 150-155 range which seemed okay.  Walked through the turnaround and took in some water.  Then off I went.  The run course overall is flat with a couple of rises where they paved over the sand dunes.  Good local support and the road was the one that has all the beach homes on it.  Nice homes, low traffic and decent pavement. At the end of the run, I did hear someone approaching me so I actually had a little bit of a kick left in me for the last .25 mile (plus it looks good for the photos!!!!). I ran with gel lifts (minimize impact on my bursa sack) on top of my orthos which did not cause any issues.  I do need new socks with a healthier elastic, so much for my favorite socks and I am not a naked foot guy yet. 

I did not write my times down and I haven't found where they are posted on line yet,  but overall I think I was 1:26 or 1:29 with a 15 min or so swim, a 36 min ride and a 30 min run.  T1 I think was about 2:30 min with T2 being around 1:30. Overall I am happy with the bike and run with the swim just being an "experience".

JK

 

 

 



2011-10-15 11:37 PM
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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

The official results............

Overall 75/124 at 1:26:14 (still holding the middle of the pack!)

1st place was 1:03:19 by a 42yo male with a 17:57 run.

Swim 15:29 91/124 (still the hardest 15 min work out I have had in a long time)

T1 2:57 (sitting on my stool felt to good I guess)

Bike 36:32 32/124

T2 1:10

Run 30:09 101/124

Distances 750M/19.3K/5k  The Bike and Run were out and back.

Clydesdale group results were not posted and the race did not have a MC division.

JK

 

2011-10-16 12:10 AM
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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Steve,

Thanks for the mojo, but as you read I think it got down here just about two hours to late.  When they were handing out awards I noticed things were a lot calmer.  Its the thought that counts. 

I like your timeframe on the Oct. race schedule.  It makes a lot of sense.  First is that I have notice that if I tend to "compress" things I end up with a leg issue, so a longer schedule is good plus with my work schedule I cannot always commit to the 15+hours training. Second is your point about my mileage will not be that great in Aug.  I have done up to 13 miles on a treadmill which I do not mind since I can regulate my hydration/nutrition and if mother nature calls the bathroom is near plus the treadmill is easier on the joints.  Even if I get up to the 15-19 mile range I will most likely be on a treadmill most of the time with only couple of long runs outside.  BTW..last visit to the Doc, he mentioned that your chance of injury greatly increases at the 30 mile/week mark.  Interesting tidbit I thought.

The outdoor pool up down here is getting ready to close, however, the ocean is still comfortable at 70+.  Now that the boaters are gone, it is halfway safe to venture in the water again.  I assume that you just shift your swim indoors vice not picking it up again until May.  I am lucky that the gym I attend has an indoor and 50m outdoor pool which makes it very easy to get the swim practice done regularly.  I should be able to keep my riding outside until the Jan/Feb timeframe.  I can still ride outside, however, you do have to wrap up a little tighter. 

Anytime to hit the sack.  I am visiting my son tomorrow who is contemplating taking a job in PA.  Hate to see him go but the job market is awful for college grads so I might just be traveling northward starting in the not to distance future.

JK

 

2011-10-16 7:05 AM
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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!
JoeK - 2011-10-16 12:37 AM

The official results............

Overall 75/124 at 1:26:14 (still holding the middle of the pack!)

1st place was 1:03:19 by a 42yo male with a 17:57 run.

Swim 15:29 91/124 (still the hardest 15 min work out I have had in a long time)

T1 2:57 (sitting on my stool felt to good I guess)

Bike 36:32 32/124

T2 1:10

Run 30:09 101/124

Distances 750M/19.3K/5k  The Bike and Run were out and back.

Clydesdale group results were not posted and the race did not have a MC division.

JK

 

Well done Joe. 

Considering the swim conditions your swim was fast.  Personally, I'd take those results for an OWS even if the conditions were like glass.

2011-10-16 8:02 PM
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JK -

Great report, and a REALLY fine job of handling the adveristy you encountered. In particluar, you did the absolute correct things in the swim, when your HR was high and you were winded and taking in water -- and mayeb even flailing. In those cases, about the only wise thing to do is to slow it way down, extend the roll, make an exaggerated head-turn to grab air......and not return to "normal" swimming until at least two or three of the above conditions are brought back to manageable levels. Extremely well done!!

The other little trick you employed was hitching your leash up high, and before long you will beable to accomplish two tasks -- un-do the velcro and grab the leash -- all in one swift motion. I use a DeSoto two-piece where the leash goes from bottom to top, and even though DeSoto says the whole system makes inturive sense, I don't agree with that 100%. I continue to use their wetsuit, however, and have for about 9 years (with a couple of dabbles into conventional suits, mostly for training purposes).

Another thing you may have learned yesterday is that disaster does not necessary follow from an elevated heart rate. It sounds as if you weren't too thrilled to see it at 150-155 early in the run, but not only did you keep trucking along, but you even had some kick at the end. Imagine that!

The trick now is to continue to work around that experience, not expecting big miracles, but aiming more for steady inroads. There will maybe be times when you DO get gassed pushing at your HR limits, but I can almost guarantee that that will not be a permanent setback, but rather just the way your body handled the pressure on that particular day. Remember, if our progress was linearly progressive, we would all be Olympics-calibre within a year or two or three!

Finally, good job of staying within yourself during the bike -- there's another lesson in that, too. (You held back some and STILL managed a really strong overall placement; sweet!) And all of this knowledge can be employed at B2B -- in just about 13 days, eh??










Edited by stevebradley 2011-10-16 8:05 PM
2011-10-16 8:04 PM
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JK again -

Oh, yeah. I continue to muse about your iron and the run training leading up to it, and I think I habve settled on some compromise betweent he various ideas I'v ehrown out to you. I will post that fairly soon, I hope.

But for now --- ONWARDS TO B2B!!!!!




2011-10-16 8:16 PM
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JEFF -

As the USAT rankings are coming into form, I can tell you that the Class of 1951 is REALLY strong. This year there are currently 24 60-year-olds ahead of me, and that is far more than last year's 60s, and even 60s from my year, '49.

I am at 66th now, and of the 65 higher than I am, there are the 24 who are 60, 17 who are 61, 10 who are 62, 9 who are 63, and 5 who are 64. That should add up to 65!

My ratings aren't where I want them to be, and I need a really good one to catapult me a whole lot -- and that's not about to happen. I am currently the last of the straight All-Americans, but that will never hold as the numbers get cut dramatically once all those with only 1 or 2 races are "DQed" from the competition. I should still be fine for Honorable Mention, but I was once again aiming for A-A. Oh, well!

Wild baseball game in Milwaukee tonight; kind of fun to watch! Regardless of whether it's the Cards or the Brews who are in the WS, I'm solidly behind the Rangers.

Blah, blah, blah!


2011-10-17 6:03 PM
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stevebradley - 2011-10-16 9:16 PM JEFF -  but I was once again aiming for A-A. Oh, well! Wild baseball game in Milwaukee tonight; kind of fun to watch! Regardless of whether it's the Cards or the Brews who are in the WS, I'm solidly behind the Rangers. Blah, blah, blah!

Steve,

Sorry it sounds like you won't make the cut for A-A.  But, from the sounds of it you had a solid racing season (I think you mentioned that you had some of your best runs ever).  So, despite the early season injuries you controlled what you could control - which is YOUR fitness.  So you gotta be happy with that.  BTW, there are a ton of people in the triathlon world outside of your AG that would like to put up some of the times you put it.

I haven't paid too much attention to baseball recently. I'm in full college football mode at the moment.  But I'm an American League leaning fan so I'm with ya on the Rangers.

2011-10-17 9:25 PM
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JEFF -

Thanks, and there really are no regrets. Much of the rankings stuff, of course, comes with the reality that those young pups in the age group rule, relatively speaking. The struggle for the next two years is holding on to even H-M, as it will be tough at 63 and a hold-on-for-dear-life endeavor at 64.

You are aware of the greatness of your fellow Floridian (and fellow age-grouper) Joe Bonness, yes? Let me know how much you know about his skills, and I'll post a comment his wife made about him and the fact that he hasn't raced this year.

Aw, what the heck; here it is.

Part of his hiatus from racing is economics, as he is in the construction business and has been hurting in that regard. But here is what his wife, Sue, wrote on Slowtwitch:
"He trains every bit as hard, but he is not as driven about racing. Joe started this adventure in endurance to keep feeling young. When you hit the mid 50s, and everything starts to hurt, it starts to make you feel old."

Well, I can relate to that, even though I haven't pushed myself half as hard as he has. The other commentof note she makes is"
"I am sure he will be back to Kona, but it may not be for a couple of years. The WTC events are too much of a crowd now too.. He is NOT happy about the drafting situation in IM right now either."

I hope WTC sees this and puts some thought into how they run things. He has been a great emissary for M-dot races, just by virtue of how extraordinarily well he has consistently performed, and if I was WTC I wouldn't want to lose him and others of his calibre.

Finally, onto baseball, I was hugely impressed watching St. Louis celebrate last night. LaRussa and his coaches stayed between the third base and the dugout, letting the players do the celebrated on their own. After a few minutes when the players saw the coaches over there, they made a beeline and gave one and all huge hugs. Very, very classy!


2011-10-18 12:18 PM
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stevebradley - 2011-10-17 10:25 PM JEFF - Much of the rankings stuff, of course, comes with the reality that those young pups in the age group rule, relatively speaking. The struggle for the next two years is holding on to even H-M, as it will be tough at 63 and a hold-on-for-dear-life endeavor at 64. You are aware of the greatness of your fellow Floridian (and fellow age-grouper) Joe Bonness, yes? Let me know how much you know about his skills, and I'll post a comment his wife made about him and the fact that he hasn't raced this year. Aw, what the heck; here it is. Part of his hiatus from racing is economics, as he is in the construction business and has been hurting in that regard. But here is what his wife, Sue, wrote on Slowtwitch: "He trains every bit as hard, but he is not as driven about racing. Joe started this adventure in endurance to keep feeling young. When you hit the mid 50s, and everything starts to hurt, it starts to make you feel old." Well, I can relate to that, even though I haven't pushed myself half as hard as he has. The other commentof note she makes is" "I am sure he will be back to Kona, but it may not be for a couple of years. The WTC events are too much of a crowd now too.. He is NOT happy about the drafting situation in IM right now either." I hope WTC sees this and puts some thought into how they run things. He has been a great emissary for M-dot races, just by virtue of how extraordinarily well he has consistently performed, and if I was WTC I wouldn't want to lose him and others of his calibre. Finally, onto baseball, I was hugely impressed watching St. Louis celebrate last night. LaRussa and his coaches stayed between the third base and the dugout, letting the players do the celebrated on their own. After a few minutes when the players saw the coaches over there, they made a beeline and gave one and all huge hugs. Very, very classy!

Ahh...  But here is the good news.... in 2 years you become a "young pup" again.  One of the benefits of AG racing.

Yes, I have heard of Bonness.  I think he is like a 4 time champion of the Great Floridian and a great athlete.  And yes, the construction business is hurting in Florida these days.  It's getting better but no where near what it was 3-4 years ago.

With regard to drafting (ie... CHEATING), it's certainly not exclusive to WTC.  I see it all the time, even in local small sprint races.  I used to get angry over it when I would see a train of drafting bikers go past me. I've had opportunities to just jump on the end of the train and enjoy the ride.  I guess it really comes down to a personal choice... am I going to cheat or not.  Gordo has some great thoughts on the cheating issue (I'll have to find it and post a link to it here). 

2011-10-18 5:50 PM
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JEFF -

The impressive thing (well, one of them) about Bonness is that some of those G.F. came a week or tqo after he won his a.g. at Kona, or some other iron-distance. The guy is a real mavhine and a huge talent, and I'm sorry that he's been hurting. Part of it was back surgery, I think his wife said, plus a broken collarbone from a bike crash.

As for his work, she siad he had to release 50% of his people, and take a 75% pat reduction himself. That would sure cut into doing two many races at $400 (GFT) to $600 (M-dot) a shot!

I guess he specifies WTC races for two reasons. One is that they are so crowded that not only is it sometimes hard to avoid drafting, but it's also hard to police it in that thetre are so many doing it, the marshals can't identify more than one or two per pack. The second reason is that, at least for him, he is ALWAYS looking at that Kona spot, and of course would hate to lose it to someone who not only had a stronger bike time, but had conserved their legs for a strong run.

I think that a few weekes ago I mentioned my debacle at Bassman two years ago, but in case I did it with the other group and not here, here goes.

With about 5 miles to go on the 29-mile bike, I was passed by a pack of about ten riders. They didn't pass me decisively, so I hung back for a minute or so, got the measure of them, and picked it up and passed them -- and foarly decisively, i thought. About a minute or so later they passed me.....and this sequence was repeated about six or seven times altogether. I was pretty ticked off about it, ebough so that I ditched my common sense, oh, with about 3 miles to go; that was when I should've realized that this was not a game worth playing. But, no -- with about half a mile to go I passed REALLY decisively, and kept flooring it, and succeeded in dismounting before any of them did. Was "victory" mine?

NO!!! Because about a mile into the run I felt like I had nothing, and soon after that I was forced to walk. And not too long after that, I walked a bit again, and I think once more it happened, to. All this on a 4.5-mile run on a vitually flat course. I guess you know the mistake I made, which was clear to me even then, but wasn't even in my thoughts as I was trying to make a solo-rider statement on the bike. It was simply that I tanked myself in trying to out-do that pack of 20- and 30-soemthings, and I was so fixated that I forgot to drink at all, and didn't remember to take ina gel about two miles from the bike's end.

Long dumb story, I know, but it has stuck with me as how NOT to handle drafters. And I hope next time I get in a similar situation, I will rely on common sense to get the better of avenging anger. Grr!





2011-10-18 8:00 PM
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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

stevebradley - 2011-10-18 6:50 PM JEFF - The impressive thing (well, one of them) about Bonness is that some of those G.F. came a week or tqo after he won his a.g. at Kona, or some other iron-distance. The guy is a real mavhine and a huge talent, and I'm sorry that he's been hurting. Part of it was back surgery, I think his wife said, plus a broken collarbone from a bike crash. As for his work, she siad he had to release 50% of his people, and take a 75% pat reduction himself. That would sure cut into doing two many races at $400 (GFT) to $600 (M-dot) a shot! I guess he specifies WTC races for two reasons. One is that they are so crowded that not only is it sometimes hard to avoid drafting, but it's also hard to police it in that thetre are so many doing it, the marshals can't identify more than one or two per pack. The second reason is that, at least for him, he is ALWAYS looking at that Kona spot, and of course would hate to lose it to someone who not only had a stronger bike time, but had conserved their legs for a strong run. I think that a few weekes ago I mentioned my debacle at Bassman two years ago, but in case I did it with the other group and not here, here goes. With about 5 miles to go on the 29-mile bike, I was passed by a pack of about ten riders. They didn't pass me decisively, so I hung back for a minute or so, got the measure of them, and picked it up and passed them -- and foarly decisively, i thought. About a minute or so later they passed me.....and this sequence was repeated about six or seven times altogether. I was pretty ticked off about it, ebough so that I ditched my common sense, oh, with about 3 miles to go; that was when I should've realized that this was not a game worth playing. But, no -- with about half a mile to go I passed REALLY decisively, and kept flooring it, and succeeded in dismounting before any of them did. Was "victory" mine? NO!!! Because about a mile into the run I felt like I had nothing, and soon after that I was forced to walk. And not too long after that, I walked a bit again, and I think once more it happened, to. All this on a 4.5-mile run on a vitually flat course. I guess you know the mistake I made, which was clear to me even then, but wasn't even in my thoughts as I was trying to make a solo-rider statement on the bike. It was simply that I tanked myself in trying to out-do that pack of 20- and 30-soemthings, and I was so fixated that I forgot to drink at all, and didn't remember to take ina gel about two miles from the bike's end. Long dumb story, I know, but it has stuck with me as how NOT to handle drafters. And I hope next time I get in a similar situation, I will rely on common sense to get the better of avenging anger. Grr!

Steve,

I think you my have but thanks for sharing the Bassman story again.  There are some very valuable lessons in there that we all should remember. 

Here is a link to one of Gordo's blog's about cheating:

http://coachgordo.posterous.com/ironwar-pain-and-doping

He primarily focuses on doping in this particular article but you could subsitute drafting for doping.  It's the same.... Cheating.  I really like these from the blog:

"Where I've ended up with doping is to acknowledge that energy spent trying to "fix" others would be better spent improving myself"

"Cheaters are focused on winning, external recogition........ these are false gods of achievement.  Success, and meaning, is found by overcoming ourselves."

That doesn't totally get rid of the anger I feel when a drafting train goes by me but.... at least afterwards I can look at myself in the mirror and be happy with the fact that I choose not to participate.

2011-10-18 10:17 PM
in reply to: #3729190

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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!


JEFF -

Many thanks for the link to "Ironwar, pain, and doping". And you certainly have a great eye for the telling statements, as the ones you directly cited were the best of everything Gordo had to say. (Is he a Buddhist, perhaps?)

It really does come down to being able to look yourself in the mirror and realize that while you may have been screwed by cheaters, at least you did it right yourself. The good news for us, at our advanced age, is that few of our peers get involved in that stuff. Part of that is due to how waves are set up, and part is that most of us cannot keep up with those drafting trains that are made up of youngsters with very big engines.

So, I never worry about losing an a.g. placement due to drafting, although drafting can (and does) have small effects on my beloved USAT rankings points. That's a scenario where it matters how you stack up against the whole field on race day, so if drafting results in a bunch of guys at the top finishing a few minutes faster (than they might have otherwise) due to their drafting, then that lowers my points for that race. I wish I could just asy "So it goes" and carry on, but it galls me when it happens and I don't let go of it to readily. Grrr, again!

I cannot imagine how much it (doping, drafting) must bother the professionals, who after all are chasing their livelihoods. To see your money disappear due to either of those.....well, I can't imagine where that degree of rage must be channeled. Mercy!


2011-10-22 9:56 PM
in reply to: #3435045

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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Ahh..the final week before B2B.  Last week I started my taper, earlier than I hoped, however since I was in training for 11 hours/day with a 1 hour commute each way, there was not much of a choice.  Of course this week-end my wife is in bed with some type of bug. That would be an interesting twist to the race, hopefully it is only a cold that I will not be offended if she keeps to herselfLaughing.  I did recieve the race booklet today.  Holy cow, I am use to showing up with my bucket and bike and hour or so before the race.  Looks like I will have a full day of prep on Friday with bike check in, mandatory prerace meeting, and of course T1, T2 change bag preps along with figuring out the logistics of getting from the hotel to T1, to body marking, and the swim drop off on race day which will most likely just involve following the masses.  It sounds well organized and it is now just a matter of getting the meeting time downs and when I have to check in my bike etc.  Now on to finalizing my nutrition plan......

JK

2011-10-23 11:34 PM
in reply to: #3734655

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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!


JK -

Yes, that is a lotta lotta stuff to keep straight, and certainly far removed from the typical smallish triathlon. BUT, it is all doable, and just the way you have written things down suggests that you will be fine. That is, you already see potential problem areas, and are already thinking about ways to conquer them. This is good!

What is also good is the Friday commitment to the whole thing. The pre-race meeting will answer many of your questions, i am sure, and just having to rack your bike early will allow you to not only get a preview of that part of the whole venue, but to maybe walk through it a couple of times and get it all nice and comfortable as to the flow of T1.

I hope you have time to drive out to where the swim starts, and also to T2; isn't that on the opposite side of the river from the host hotel, right near the battleship? (Yeah, I guess so -- it's not called Beach To Battleship on a whim, is it??)

The T1 and T2 bags just need to be double- and maybe triple-checked, just to make sure the essentials are present and easy to get at. Just keep working on lists the nenxt few days, double- and triple-checking them, too. In effect, they should become almost like the bags themselves, the contents of which you can recite in your sleep, backwards, forwards, and sideways.

If your wife is coming down with you, bring along a stout marker and have her body-mark you just before you go to bed. That's a question to ask at the pre-race meeting -- what markings are on what parts of the body? I'm sure you won't be the only one who shows up at the morning shuttle run already marked. As Lynn usually doesn't come to races with me, I have even body-marked myself on more than several occasions, when I suspect the process will be cumbersome on race morning.

Aiming for the earliest bus that will transport the half-iron people is the best way to go. I would just much rather hang around the swim start extra-long, as oposed to being in a long line back at the pick-up spot, worrying that I might not make a bus in time for my wave start. Having siad that, though, I find in more than easy to wake up super-early so as to arrive at ANY race venue about 15 minutes before it's scheduled to be open, so from me it's cheap and easy talk!

And as for the nutrition plan............... Let me know how it's evolving, okay?


2011-10-24 8:04 PM
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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Thanks Steve,

Right now alot of pre race nerves which I shouldn't have.  I cannot not remember signing anything specifically, but I am sure I have signed all of my 2012 contracts so it is not like I will lose my sponsors or advertising endorsementsLaughing

Great idea on having my wife marking me prior to showing up. That should eliminate one line.  Currently the weather forecast dropped 10F for Sat.  and now the high is forecasted at 60F vice the earlier 70-75F.  My current plan was to wear my tri suit on the bike with regular bike shorts with arm sleeves and full gloves.  If the high is now 60 I will most likely strip out of my tri suit put on a long sleeve shirt and my bike shorts.  This will then require I then change again at T2 into my running gear.  Not a fan of changing.  I did read that putting a gallon size zip lock bag between your tri suit and chest will help keep you warm and then throw the bag away at the first water stop once you heat up.  Contemplating that strategy.  Currently my wave start time is 9:05 so I will be getting on my bike about 9:50-1000 or so (there is about 300-400 yds between the water exit via a ladder on a dock and T1).  So that should put my bike at the "heat" of the day from 1000-1330 or so.  So I will pack my warm bike clothes and running gear and most likely make my choice that morning once I hear the final forecast and expected wind speed.  What I need to put in my T1 "change bag" has me stumbling a little bit.  I am thinking since my bike will be racked and I will have access to it, I should be able to stage my gear on my bike and use the change bag only if I want to change into different clothes and to put my wet suit in.  However, the information book specifically states to include your clothes and shoes unless your shoes are clipped in.  For the HIM types the bag will be located at the bike rack.  So I am pondering why would I put anything in the bag and use it only to dump my wetsuit and googles in....The prerace meeting will be interesting.  Most important thing is to ensure I have everything in the back of the Expedition and get everything figured out and checked in by 1900.

Nutrition is starting to shape up like this.....1.5 cups oatmeal at 0430 with coffee and start drinking water. I will also have a bananna at 0630.  At this point I will be located in the masses getting ready for the start. I will be able to have a "pre swim gear bag" for pre swim gear and post race clothes which I can leave at the swim start.  I will take a water bottle in this bag along with my sweatshirt  to ensure I stay hydrated and warm.  At 0845 I will have a GU gel (100cals /25g carbs) and then jump into the water and stay in the middle of the channel (I have heard that is the fastest part of the channel).  On my bike I will have my areo bottle filled with water and one bottle in a cage filled with perpetum (270 cals/54g carbs/7g protein/4.5 g fat). I plan on alternating between perp and water with one refill of the areo bottle required.  I am still debating if I should add one more cage for water or stop at the middle water stop (I cannot refill on the fly).   My "food" intake will be every 25 minutes starting with a GU gel 25 minutes into the ride.  After that I have a divided a power bar (240cals/44g carbs/9g protein/4g fat with 200mg sodium) into 6 segments. Typically I do have a segment left depending on how things are feeling.  On my run I plan on taking GU Chomps (180cals 46g carbs/ 80 mg sodium) and taking a "chomp" once per mile with water.  I currently plan on walking thru the water stops every mile for 30 secs unless the heart rate stays above 150, then I will walk another 30 secs.  I will most likely get into my 2nd bag of chomps so the cal intake will probably be another 90 cals. 

It does help thinking through this again while writing.....see any fatal flaws? 

JK

 



2011-10-24 11:44 PM
in reply to: #3736629

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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!


JK -

No! No fatal flaws....although I could quibble 'til the cows come home!

It really seems like a good plan, and one you have obviously thought through in great detail. And seeing that it IS detailed, the more you go over it the firmer it will be planted in your brain.

That said, don't get hung up on being a slave to time or miles as you're feeding and drinking. It may well turn out that your system begins to rebel some, and in those instances it's best to go with your gut (as it were), rather than try to get down another gel or chomp. As much as I have a fear of under-fueling at HIM, I have a bigger fear of getting sick, so I always opt on the side of under-fueling. I don't do this to the extreme, but easily enough to keep me from feeling nauseous -- or worse!

You mentioned another bottle cage, and I would say yes to that and use it for a carbohydrate drink such as HEED or even Gatorade. I was looking at the specs for Perpetuem yesterday, and it mentioned that for some people the caloric hit from it can be tough to handle, and so my cautious recommendation would be to try to stay off the Perp until about halfway through the bike -- just to be safe. But if you have a flavored energy drink with you on the bike, that will serve two purposes -- keep your carb levels where they should be, and serve as something to help remove the salty/brackish taste from the swim water, if that taste bugs you at all.

I will try, tomorrow, to see if i can dowload a copy of the race rules and guidelines, just to try to understand what they ecxpect from you and your T1 set-up. I interpret it the way you do I think, although I'm finding it hard to see how that plan will work well for everyone.

The weather report is sketchy, isn't it? Maybe sketchy isn't the right word, but the forecast sits nicely in a big old gray zone where it's not clear what to prepare for. I have told you how I dress for even cold races, and that's minimally -- but I know full well that won't work for most people. So....I will have to try to think like a normal person and look at that forecast and think what woud work best for you.

As for the zip lock bag and discrading it, just make sure you do it so you don't get a penalty for "abandoning equipment" if a marshall sees you. People get those penalties when they fumble a water bottle from their cage and it falls to the ground and they don't retuurn for it, and believe it or not, people get penalized if they hit a bump and "launch" a bottle, and don't even know it, and the ref sees it. So if you ditch the bag, maybe even do it at a full stop, making sure it ends up perfectly in one of the big garbage bins.

Off to bed with me, as it's 12:43. But i will try to at elast find the race guidelines and see what I can figure out about T1. I'll be back tomorrow!


2011-10-25 7:33 PM
in reply to: #3435045

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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Thanks Steve for the sanity check. 

I did forget to mention that I intend to have pretzels on my areo straw, more as a reminder of the "Big Skies" mentor's teachings and ponderings (my zen point on the bike) plus a little extra sodium never hurt.  I do not want a repeat of lil Washington's OLY and suffer the consequences of over nutrition.  I use my timer more as a reminder to evaluate if I need to take in anything or not and lately towards the end of my long rides I tend to forgo the remaining pieces of the power bar.  I will add the extra water bottle and try to find some place that sells HEED around here which GNC will be my best bet otherwise I will have to get some in Wilmington.  Gatorade is a bit to sweet for my taste buds.

I never thought that a dropped water bottle would result in a penatly but that is good to know.  I had plan to trash the bag at the first water stop and top of the water bottle at mile 21.   The link to the race guidelines is

http://www.beach2battleship.com/files/2011%20PPD%20B2B%20ATHLETE%20EVENT%20BOOKLET.pdf Not sure if the link will work or not but I am trying to hook up with a couple of people I know that have raced previously but like you said I am sure it will be addressed in the meeting on Friday. 

A good swim training video for a race this size is on youtube under http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3S0wu4Zbfk if the link doesn't work the title is Clif Bar Triathlon Start Commercial.  I think it is probably one of the realistic videos I have seen for simulating a swim start.

3 days and a wake up with 1 cold to shake.

JK

2011-10-25 7:42 PM
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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!
hmmmm, I just notice the link they sent out for the handbook is for next years race.  Not sure where they put the 2011 book.
2011-10-26 7:05 AM
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Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!


JK & JEFF -


Where is everybody else??







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