Election 2016 (Page 57)

Nate Silver still doesn't get it.

America hasn’t put its demons — including racism, anti-Semitism and misogyny — behind it. White people still make up the vast majority of the electorate, particularly when considering their share of the Electoral College, and their votes usually determine the winner.

The longer the elitist progressives continue to believe that Conservative voters are racist and sexists the longer they will continue to lose elections.  This is not about race/sex/religion/orientation it's about corrupt politicians and elites pricks looking down their nose at Conservatives.

I've been waiting to post my thoughts on the election for a while because I think I'm still in shock. Not because I didn't think it was possible that Trump would be elected, but because of what it means for the country. The economy, foreign policy, environmental policy immigration, civil rights; it is all in danger of going backwards 30 years.

But what I want to talk about here is something that I've been discussing today, and that I've been watching unfold over the past month. Locker room talk. Donald Trump was accused by a dozen women of sexual assault. He was caught on tape explaining how he kisses women without asking, and grab them by the genitals because hey, he is a celebrity, he can do what he wants.

because your son is representative of america.  why then LB have so many women i know been assaulted.

i'm using him as an example of how our society treats this issue.  look beyond your politics for a moment.

Hey Dave, I have been thinking about you a lot today and not in a boasting way.  I know you're very passionate and you've usually tried to sell your point of view rather than shout down mine.

I totally get your concern and I don't like that Trump said the things he said, but I do want to caution the leap of what he said and turning it into saying he sexually assaults women.  By saying "they let you do it" implies consent.  Now obviously they may be consenting because he's a big celebrity and such, but I know of many stories of rock stars taking advantage of star struck girls at concerts and such.  It disgusts me, but it still happens.

As for the women coming forward I at first didn't know what to think, but I did give every single one of them a legitimate look and there were some (not all) that had fairly obvious holes in their stories.  I'm not suggesting they definitely lied, but it did make it harder for me to believe the entirety of their story.
Where I ultimately landed on all of them was that there were no criminal charges filed in any of the instances and in several of the cases they were even accusing him of essentially trying to kiss them against their will.  Now, it still isn't cool to try and force an unwanted kiss but I don't exactly treat it as the crime of the century.
The timing of everyone coming out as if on queue bugged me too.  At the exact moment in the election to inflict the most damage within days of the access hollywood tape coming out.  Even Anderson Cooper continuing to push Trump in the debate the day before they came out to answer the question of "have you ever touched a woman like that".  It seemed like obvious collusion to set up the girls for maximum damage. 

In the end, I had to land on the side of not liking any of it but it not being a disqualifying event for me.  Even the talk itself caught on the tape was nothing in comparison the the crap I heard (and admittedly participated in) when I was in the Navy.  When you put 300+ guys on a ship together for 6 months it can get a little sketchy to say the least.  It doesn't excuse it, but it's guys being pigs and it's been going on for thousands of years. 

I do share your vision of protecting kids from language like this, and it's actually a very conservative point of view.  Christians have been complaining for years of the garbage coming out in movies and on TV shows because of the impact it has on kids but the progressive movement keeps pushing the envelope further and further.  I'm a fan of the Walking Dead, but the grotesque murder scenes are getting to be too much for me and I couldn't fathom a kid stumbling across a show like that.  I'll also say that bashing somebodies head in graphically with a baseball bat is far worse than a kid hearing about using fame to grab a woman's kitty.  Obviously one is a show and the other is real, but they both send very negative messages.

I know you'll be hurting for a few days, but I encourage you to give Trump a chance.  You might be surprised in some areas.  He's by far the most progressive candidate the Republicans have ever had on issues such as gay marriage and is quite libertarian on many social issues.

Take care.

Tony

There's a very long answer to this simple question.

The reason women are getting assaulted is because boys and men are not developing their sexuality properly.  They are exposed to pornography and sex at way too young of an age in our culture which builds a craving and desire in their hearts.  They then grow up with parents that are more concerned about their own lives than the lives of their kids to the point that they grow up very angry and depressed and addicted to sex.

Every rapist evolves in a different way, but it ultimately comes down to them having sociopathic tendencies combined with a broken sexual development.  They can't see the victim as a person or human and have no ability to empathize with them.  They take what they want the same way that a person who is not a sociopath but is addicted to porn takes what they want form the porn site they look at.  The women or men on the screen aren't consenting to the thoughts in the users head, but our society accepts the "virtual" victimization and draws the line at the physical.

Personally, I have been trying to get rid of pornography for years but it's an impossible battle.  I know hundreds of men and women who have destroyed their marriages and lives as a direct result.  I also know many more that are sitting in prison today because the addiction continued to progress to the point that LB and his team had to pay them a visit.

Any person who grows up with a healthy sexuality exposure in a loving family will never be effected by hearing somebody talk degrading to women.  Similar to what LB was just saying.  However, people who are already jacked up can be triggered by all kinds of things and every single person is different.

Trump saying bad things will never result in a kid deciding they want to go sexually assault women.  Growing up in a jacked up family with exposure to very bad stuff will. 

I guess I'm rambling a little bit, but I hope what I wrote makes sense.

the election is over, i'm not talking about the vote anymore.  i'm just talking about people's reaction to what he said.  I dated someone who was raped by a man  in college, she didn't "resist" because of how terrified she was. Did she let him do it? NO.  It was one of the most painful things I have ever heard, from someone I loved.  Maybe its too soon to talk to you guys about this because the election just happened.  I'm trying to focus on issues that we can try and come together and make progress on.  I know too many women who have been assaulted, and too many men who talk the way trump does.  Its not coincidence my friends, its the sad reality of our country. 

I know you say its a conservative view Tony, but I actually don't want to hide children from this.  I want them to see it and hear it.  And then I want our society to shun the people who act that way and show them that you don't get anywhere if you do this.

And guess what LB, I wasn't alive for most of the men you named, or old enough to have an opinion on Bill Clinton when that happened, but you can believe me when I tell you I take this issue seriously regardless of political affiliation.

thank you both for allowing this to progress into a real conversation.

i know the broken home bad upbringing argument...and that is definitely true.  however, the well off white kids from nuclear families all over my college campus committed these crimes constantly.  and that i believe is due to learned behaviors from popular culture and society.

lets stop throwing them in jail for pot and other drugs

so serious question. poor people  want higher minimum wage  so that they can make a living to support their family.  you say they should work harder, 2 jobs, 3 jobs and get ahead.  What are they doing while working these 2 jobs? neglecting their children who in turn are becoming worse members of society.  Isn't this an argument for social programs, a minimum wage, etc?

social safety nets. teaching all these topics in school.  putting people in a situation where they don't feel oppressed and neglected by society.  rehabilitate instead of for profit prisons.  its a multitude of issues.

cutting taxes, and cutting social programs will throw these people into a deeper hole.