Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED (Page 58)

mambos - 2012-03-16 11:45 AM

JeffY - 2012-03-16 12:19 PM

wbayek - 2012-03-16 10:51 AM In addition to the tempo run I've already completed this week, I was planning to add some strides (maybe 5) to my long run tomorrow and every long run from here on out.  Good idea?

IMO, yes. 

Remember to make them only as fast as you can comfortably cruise plus achieve that speed gradually.

If you spread them out throughout the run, rather than right in a row, say 1 each mile....it can help keep the legs loose.  Most people will find that the legs really tighten up during a long run as fatigue sets in and the stride length is relatively short.

That tightness can be eliminated by breaking up the stride from time to time.

For instance, last weekend my daughter did her longest ever run.  9 miles.  It was on challenging mtn bike trails and she mentioned when she was done that her legs didn't feel the usual fatigue (as didn't mine). 

 

I also got to do some speed stuff yesterday.  I did a lunch-time track workout with Jordan.  Changed at the Y next door and drove a few minutes to a track where we did some strides, drills and tempo stuff.  Just an introduction into leg speed for now.  We are going to try to make it a weekly thing.

 

Would strides also prevent tightness in the hip area? When i start to reach mile 8 I start to have discomfort in the side of my hip, eventually it rolls around to the front of the hip area! Normally if I stop and stretch it goes away for a few miles them comes back! My long run is always with a group of runners so we tend to hold a pretty even pace. If I can prevent this issue just by occasionally pushing the group then they may have to play catch up

Maybe.  If your discomfort is a simple matter of tightness, then it probably will. 

JeffY - 2012-03-16 2:02 PM

mambos - 2012-03-16 11:45 AM

JeffY - 2012-03-16 12:19 PM

wbayek - 2012-03-16 10:51 AM In addition to the tempo run I've already completed this week, I was planning to add some strides (maybe 5) to my long run tomorrow and every long run from here on out.  Good idea?

IMO, yes. 

Remember to make them only as fast as you can comfortably cruise plus achieve that speed gradually.

If you spread them out throughout the run, rather than right in a row, say 1 each mile....it can help keep the legs loose.  Most people will find that the legs really tighten up during a long run as fatigue sets in and the stride length is relatively short.

That tightness can be eliminated by breaking up the stride from time to time.

For instance, last weekend my daughter did her longest ever run.  9 miles.  It was on challenging mtn bike trails and she mentioned when she was done that her legs didn't feel the usual fatigue (as didn't mine). 

 

I also got to do some speed stuff yesterday.  I did a lunch-time track workout with Jordan.  Changed at the Y next door and drove a few minutes to a track where we did some strides, drills and tempo stuff.  Just an introduction into leg speed for now.  We are going to try to make it a weekly thing.

 

Would strides also prevent tightness in the hip area? When i start to reach mile 8 I start to have discomfort in the side of my hip, eventually it rolls around to the front of the hip area! Normally if I stop and stretch it goes away for a few miles them comes back! My long run is always with a group of runners so we tend to hold a pretty even pace. If I can prevent this issue just by occasionally pushing the group then they may have to play catch up

Maybe.  If your discomfort is a simple matter of tightness, then it probably will. 

I've used them a little bit on my medium and long runs since we started talking about them. For me, it works a bit like taking the skin of cheese sauce - if you leave it to sit without stirring, it develops a bit of a skin. If you stir it a little you break the skin and it's okay. When running, the "skin" is the tightness you feel after you've been going a while and doing the same tempo or cadence. Strides break it up a little. They don't stop you getting tired, but they do sort of stretch out the legs and knock the rust off.

That's the "cheese sauce" theory of long runs.

Thanks to Jeff for the tip!!

guitarfrk75 - 2012-03-16 1:11 PM

JeffY - 2012-03-16 2:02 PM

mambos - 2012-03-16 11:45 AM

JeffY - 2012-03-16 12:19 PM

wbayek - 2012-03-16 10:51 AM In addition to the tempo run I've already completed this week, I was planning to add some strides (maybe 5) to my long run tomorrow and every long run from here on out.  Good idea?

IMO, yes. 

Remember to make them only as fast as you can comfortably cruise plus achieve that speed gradually.

If you spread them out throughout the run, rather than right in a row, say 1 each mile....it can help keep the legs loose.  Most people will find that the legs really tighten up during a long run as fatigue sets in and the stride length is relatively short.

That tightness can be eliminated by breaking up the stride from time to time.

For instance, last weekend my daughter did her longest ever run.  9 miles.  It was on challenging mtn bike trails and she mentioned when she was done that her legs didn't feel the usual fatigue (as didn't mine). 

 

I also got to do some speed stuff yesterday.  I did a lunch-time track workout with Jordan.  Changed at the Y next door and drove a few minutes to a track where we did some strides, drills and tempo stuff.  Just an introduction into leg speed for now.  We are going to try to make it a weekly thing.

 

Would strides also prevent tightness in the hip area? When i start to reach mile 8 I start to have discomfort in the side of my hip, eventually it rolls around to the front of the hip area! Normally if I stop and stretch it goes away for a few miles them comes back! My long run is always with a group of runners so we tend to hold a pretty even pace. If I can prevent this issue just by occasionally pushing the group then they may have to play catch up

Maybe.  If your discomfort is a simple matter of tightness, then it probably will. 

I've used them a little bit on my medium and long runs since we started talking about them. For me, it works a bit like taking the skin of cheese sauce - if you leave it to sit without stirring, it develops a bit of a skin. If you stir it a little you break the skin and it's okay. When running, the "skin" is the tightness you feel after you've been going a while and doing the same tempo or cadence. Strides break it up a little. They don't stop you getting tired, but they do sort of stretch out the legs and knock the rust off.

That's the "cheese sauce" theory of long runs.

Thanks to Jeff for the tip!!

I really like the food analogy! 

I wonder if we could develop an analogy from ice cream? 

BTW, despite all the eating I'm not getting chubby.  I'm still leaning out and weighed in this week (once) at 167 which is 3lbs under my goal weight.  So with our 5lb handicapping system we were using I weighed 2lbs.

I'm not intent on losing more weight, but if my body naturally settles in at a lighter weight and I'm getting enough nutrition for recovery and fueling then I'm happy with it.

I always like a good food analogy.  And Jeff, I can't believe you're 167.  Man, I was happy since I've hit a weight this morning I haven't seen since high school (174).  My big sacrifice has been ice cream only every other day.  Other than ice cream, I actually eat very well. 

I'd love to get to 160-165, but we'll see if my body can stay that low.  I've still got a fairly substantial amount belly to grab, so all I can say is I must have been FAT when I posted that run video since I was about 190 when I made that.

Since becoming a try-athlete, I have a whole new perspective on "fat." I've been consistenly down in the mid-190s for the last couple of weeks. I'm not eating much less, but I am eating smarter. It's doing wonders.

So many great tips - thanks everyone for the help and advice!!

John

Whoa, wait a second!  How did you get so fast?  How long am I gonna be the slow one!?

So I think I found a buyer for my wetsuit...if anyone wants first dibs, let me know.

I have a torture session, aka deep tissue massage at 4 this afternoon.  Really looking forward to it....been way too long.  If anyone hasn't had one of these I strongly suggest every couple/few months.  Really helps me.

Seriously...what weight were you in that picture, Jeff???  I actually got down to 181 about three weeks ago.  I started having a hard time on long runs with keeping it together in my head and was getting a bit light-headed if I wasn't absolutely 100% on top of my nutrition.  It's more of an annoyance than anything else.  So I am back at 184 now and although it's pure fat, I seem to work better at this weight.

Haha, I have to be able to make up that 10 minutes you'll be ahead of me after the bike at Black Fly. 

I've wondered about that type of massage.  Does it wreck you for a day or anything like that?  I hear a lot of people rave about the recovery benefits.

Just dropping a note before we jump in the van to head south to San Francisco for the weekend. 

Really looking forward to this trip. We're taking our girls to the Academy of Sciences tomorrow and then to the Exploratorium after the race on Sunday. Maybe spend a little time at Pier 39 on Monday too.

I received my race packet in the mail Wednesday and it's all added into my suitcase with my running stuff.

Have a great weekend everyone. I'll get a race report up on Monday night or Tuesday after we get home.

The thumb entry first may be only slightly ahead of the rest of the hand.  In the video of David it was greatly exaggerated, as is my daughter's hand entry.  The idea is for your hand to actually be flat during the entry to avoid over rotating the shoulders and eventually causing an injury.  I don't think a very slight rotation is an issue only the exaggerated one that I've seen my daughter do for several years.  Sometime later I'll try to post a pic of the over rotation.  I'll also do a little more research to find something other than this.  Look at point 2 and the in the summary point 3.

Nope...the guy I go to is awesome.  I have zero soreness the next day.  And trust me...the session is more painful that Dr. Baroody.

Vero, have a great race this weekend!  Enjoy the weekend with your family and the race!

Warren, I also agree with Jeff that the strides (or anything else that changes the monotony of your usual stride) will help produce a very good change up to the legs becoming stale during long efforts.  I never did strides per say during my long runs but I did do some other things to try to get my legs a little bit of a break and get some "stretching" while running.  I think it will make the long runs easier to get through too because it will keep your mind a little more fresh.  Trying to remember that you will need to do a stride every mile or so and not feeling tired legs as often or as early should keep you from thinking about fatigue as much.

Since the weight is coming up again, I am holding at 158 right now but I have had a bout with out of town trips recently that have left me with a bit less determination to eat right.   I am trying to get on that wagon again but last week I forgot to ask my wife to get lettuce at the store and then I was out of town one night for a meeting and those are always great temptations for extra trash intake.  Ultimately I would like to get down to 155 before racing season and really that shouldn't be a problem once I get on track.

I also can hardly believe your at 167 Jeff.  That seems like a really low weight for you.  I am guessing you have lost a fair amount of muscle mass based on pics from last season.  I am also quite certain your not unhealthy either.  One could not maintain your activity level without getting the proper nutrition and not feel trashed all the time.

________

On a couple of personal notes:

I got my first outdoor ride in yesterday and while it was a great day to be able to get outdoors and ride  I had a lot of trouble with my bike.  I have a triple crank on my bike (yeah, I know I don't need one for the pancake land here) and I was totally unable to use the big ring for the ride at all.  I pulled off 5 times to make adjustments to the chain and rear derailleur thinking those were the items that were causing me problems.  I was EXTREMELY frustrated for the first 17 miles and finally, after the 4th stop, I decided to see if what happened if I used only the middle ring.  No Problems at all! 

Now, here's the part I am about to receive the  biggest amount of flak for, my chain has 7500 miles on it.  I wish I could have put that in microscopic print, but if I did that then I would not receive the more valued opinions of whatever else could be contributing to the issues.  Incidentally, I was planning on going to a cycling buddy's house in a week or two with a new chain and do a complete tune up on my bike then.  Obviously I need to get my tail end in gear and get to that sooner rather than later but some of it will be dependent on his schedule. 

BTW, I will not get out of this weekend without purchasing a new chain.  I have a wrestling meet to attend this morning and I will probably get one immediately after that, then do my long run if...........

......I woke up yesterday morning with my back in a spasm and then was so smart that I rode aero for 35 of the 41 miles ridden.  When I got off the bike I could hardly stand up straight.  It was fairly painful but tolerable.  I used a massaging tool on my back a couple of time yesterday that seemed to help quite a bit.  Basically I think I am better off keeping moving.  If I sit for a long period it get really stiff and somewhat painful.  Ironically, I sat in my truck driving to southern Ohio on Wednesday, sat in a meeting until 1 PM Thursday and then drove home in the afternoon.  It could be the added sitting hosed me up but that seems weird.  I don't know!  I don't expect to be sidelined with it for very long at all, if any.  Staying loose will be key.

Lastly, sorry for being a little absent this week.  Stuff at home and work plus a hotel that had VERY slow wireless kept me from posting on Wednesday night.  I did get a very nice hill climb in that night though.  Southern Ohio has some great hills to climb.  I have to go back in late April or May and I am planning on taking my bike.

I think I have taken enough of your time............resume your training.

Jo63 - 2012-03-17 8:40 AM My computer crashed this week so good thing I have an alternative to catch up on all the post. Warren: awesome run! thanks for the info on the gears, I will go count mine and figure out what I need, as far as the gear chart I will have my husband help me with that Vero: good luck this weekend As far as the shoe talk goes i recently switched from Asics, i wore this brand for about six years but when i got tthis pair i was getting ridiculous blisters pretty much every time i ran, i thought it was my socks causing this, never thought it was the shoes until I switched and got my newtons and I Love them! Dina, I hope your son has a Happy Birthday Today is a short bike, a 4000 yd swim and tomorrow a 16 mile run (I will definitely be watching my nutritional and hydration today) and taking various chews and sports beans tomorrow so I can complete my run! Happy St Patricks Day everyone.

You should be able to take a look on the side of the cassette and also on the larger front rings to find the numbers.  The cassette can be hard to read though because everything is crammed all together.  Sometimes counting is about all you can do.

It sounds like a very busy day for you.  Good luck and definitely keep up with the nutrition on a day like today.  Also make sure you get plenty of protein throughout the day to assist with your recovery.  Do you use any type of protein supplement?  If not you should probably consider something.

Here is the pic of my daughter and the thumb down entry.  She actually is over rotated in her shoulder too but this is actually not the point of the pic.  You can see that her hand position will be very much thumb down and if she weren't breathing this would be a better pic of what I am trying to point out.  As I sit in my chair typing this post I have tried this position with my head pointing down and shoulders slightly rotated as if I were swimming and I can feel the stress increased on my joint as I do this.  But, when doing it with a hand position that would enter the water with the finger tips entering first there is a greatly diminished stress on my shoulder joint.

The second pic, while still thumb down, is a slightly better position of her hand.  Each person could try this in their living room while reading this to make their own determination about the proper hand position.  Again,  I can feel the stress increase as I slowly rotate my hand to thumb down.  As I asked Laiken to try this she determined that she couldn't feel "a lot more" stress but added that there was more than the flat position.

As of right now I haven't been able to find much of anything else either way on hand positioning to that detail.  I am going to plan on looking more later as well.

(DSC_0741 (2) Bad hand-shoulder rotation (300x200).jpg)

(Better hand position (300x200).jpg)

Thanks for the video link.  One of the things I definitely need to work on is the timing of my arms.

The videos from my class were spaced out from the beginning to the end of the 2 hour class.  I have found that it takes me about 400-500 yards every time I get in the pool to get my stroke worked out.  I know that I just need to practice more so the proper form will become second nature to me.

Would you elaborate a little about hand position please?  My hands have been hurting, and I don't know why, so I'm sure that I'm doing wrong whatever it is you're referring to, but I'm not sure what that it.

Jeff, something that I read in one of the triathlon books I've looked at said that entering the water with your thumb down can cause shoulder issues.  I have a lingering rotator cuff injury, and I have noticed that if I have my thumb too low on entry throughout a swim, my shoulder will hurt for the next couple days.  The coach last weekend said that you want just the slightest tilt down on the thumb side, which I would guess is to address what you're talking about keeping the elbow up, but not so much that it puts strain on the shoulder.

Hey all.

I took a couple days off of training. My body needed it and the weather was bad. It's been raining till last night and started snowing. I did get my swim in this morning after my run. There's something about running after it snows that is soo calming. There is total silence and you can really hear your body. I am starting to get stir crazy from having to bike inside. I need to get out and ride.

I've really dialed in my nutrition. I don't know which is harder, the training or the diet. I've hit 160 lbs. and need to get my weight up 5 more pounds. My body fat % is still around 12%. My energy is so much higher and my recovery is 100x better. It's really hard to consume so many calories. I have to consume about 4200 calories, more on harder training days, but I can see the difference. Before I started working with my nutritionist, I was just barely feeding my body for all the training. Now I wake up with energy.

Good to see everyone working hard. Everyone be safe and healthy.

There are a couple of things that come to mind for hand position.

1. Make sure that your hand is relaxed.  There is no need to cup your hand to get more of a "paddle" affect.  Trying to create this type of a hand position may cause you to try to close your fingers tightly together.  While this makes logical sense it only increase fatigue and really does not add anything to your stroke efficiency.  Your hands should be relaxed but fingers straight during entry.  One way to determine a good finger position is to hold your hands at your sides and feel how your fingers lay as you are relaxed.  Observe how they are slightly apart in a completely relaxed state.  The only change to the position just discussed is that you will want to extend your fingers so that they are straight.
2. The thumb down is just as you posted with Jeff.  Keeping a hand position that is parallel to the water is the preferred position, your thumb relaxed just as your fingers are in the above point.  In your video on fb you can check the :45 and :58  shots to see the thumb down position.  I also see that it is just your right hand that seems to be the problematic hand.  Your left hand seems pretty good for the thumb down entry.

During the video it looks like you are clinching your fingers together and this may be leading to your hands hurting.  I also have the same issue with my hands.  It's an old habit that I learned as a kid that seems to die hard.

BTW,  I am soooo going to hate getting my video up.  By the time I do get mine up maybe you all will forget about how I should look because your all going to be doing races.

Stan you touch on something that most of us don't really have to be concerned with, a low percentage of body fat.  I am very, very certain I do not have to worry about the same problem you have.  Anyway, it is a very good thing that you are in tune with your body enough to know that you need to put on weight to be in the right place for racing and long endurance efforts.  If your body does not have enough fat then it will begin to use glycogen and your performance during simple training can have adverse effects during your races because you have used much of the glycogen stored within your body.

It is official!  I am a foolish, foolish man!!!  I have just registered for 2 HIM distance races that are 3 weeks apart.  If I can actually stand it and absolutely force myself to stay on task I will run the first one as a test race and then the second one will be my "A" race and I'll try to drill it.

My biggest concern will be recovery from the first race and then actually have a good race later.  right now I want to register for a couple of more races but I am actually to nervous to do it right now.  I am going to go bang on some drum skins to take out some of my anxiety.

Daaamn!

I thought I was pushing it with a sprint a week before a 70.3. Just be careful bro. Don't over train and be sure to be on top of your nutrititon and recovery.