Hashers and Mashers - Closed (Page 6)

I guess I misspoke in my enthusiasm, I wasn't advocating going all out sprint on every workout.  I was more advocating skipping straight to what you describe above as high intensity training.

Absolutely Sarah.    Every run, Every ride has a purpose.   You must know what that purpose is before you go out and do it.    

What follows is long-winded, and kinda random thoughts about this.   I am no writer.  I am also not Bart Yasso. 

   Do you need a plan to follow? 

  Really I don't think so.   BUT if you do not run with an intended purpose or are very aware of what you are trying to accomplish with it, well then ya  probably a plan is good. 

There is an old running adage here on BT which is sound.   Run lots, Mostly easy, sometimes hard.   This is true.   

however people will say you have to run tons and tons of run mileage  just crazy lots.     My opinion is that you can do almost anything on 25 miles per week running.    But much of these miles will need to be at speed.  And not many people will agree with that. 

When in maintenance mode (where I am now)  I just concentrate on running frequently.  And "try" to keep speed down. 

   But during the run, I almost always violate this.   I will start slow and run each mile faster, and faster.  By starting slower and allowing myself to go faster later,   I have made a deal with myself and limit how much time I am pushing it.   

   Is this the right way?  no.  But I do factor in, what my next few runs will be for the week.     

SO I think  2 runs easy (but usually progressively faster)   Then one run with hill work  (build power and speed with less injury risk)    another one with intentional speed.   (usually progressive again only starting faster.   And one long run.  (try to go easy here its just about training your body to burn it's fuel economically) 

Later as my mileage is higher,  I will switch out one of the slower runs and swap with another tempo,   I will be more and more focused on the run purpose.  But may go higher tempo on one of the tempo days to say "Tempo +"   with the other being more like a "Tempo -"

So a week looks like this. 

Recovery run- easy easy

Tempo 

Tempo or hill   (or easy if earlier in build)

Speed-  

Long run-As easy as you can run it

If you don't have a run base, you must build one before doing much speed work.    if you want to add speed w/o base, do that with "pick ups" within the lower intensity runs.

If you already have a base, certainly don't need to build another. 

   So the base has a couple of purposes.  One is to build running muscle, bone density, stronger tendons etc.   If you have done this, then you have done this.  No need to keep working on a base that you already have.    

Bike is a lil different:   ( Its hard to go easy and ya know not much fun.  )

Each ride has a purpose, but I think a heart rate monitor really matters here.  SO as not to violate by ending up with every ride being the same.

Recovery ride/easy   It's ok to have some speed/effort here  just remember you are recovering, and that is the goal But unlike the run  you are not going to pay for this "undisciplinedness"   If you mostly recover and enjoy scenery  for most part you will be fine.    Just remember you have this hard hard ride coming up and that will keep you in line.

Lactate threshold ride    his requires and will build mental toughness.   I will time trial on trainer  or on a road course with  almost all  RH turns.  hardly any lights or stops If light changes  I will ride right thru  as I am turning right the light or sign.  (bad I know.... but I'm admitting it)     I am trying to go very hard/very fast with no recovery     Its a 21 mile course

Interval ride- When you think about it , this is what most rides really are.   You go hard trying to keep an avg speed up or whatever, then hit a light, recover....  Then light changes and BAM  I'm trying to beat the cars to a spot on the road and impress the drivers  (dang I'm admitting another lil secret)   are they impressed?  probably not, but I will hit 30-33 MPH on a flat for a time.   Ya this is interval work.   Then whoops some inclines  where are those gears?  push it, push it.  then maybe  hmm relax a bit and head towards the lake.  or meander, so recovering.    Then BAM hit it again   so  this is good training.  But not GREAT training.    That lactate threshold ride is much better.      See when you are on a group ride or a ride   there are always stops.  always.     In a race??  nope.  so gotta practice this.      See Lactate threshold.  

I also consider Spin class (which I do often)  a recovery or Interval ride.   depending. 

then one LONG ride....  LONG!  again teaching the body to be efficient.   There are stops at gas stations to fill bottles, maybe get something to eat.     maybe some "cucumber gatorade hunting"   (whoops a lil magical mys-tri tour hijinx there)     And within this ride there are points where I just cannot help myself but to ride very hard.  While other parts I might just enjoy the moment ya know?   But the goal is to go far. 

Most people do not go easy enough on their easy runs/rides or go hard enough on their hard runs/rides.   This is truth and I am guilty of this big time.     Its something to always always remember to try and do.     EASY or HARD   "which am I doing today?".     Then be disciplined if you can about it and do what was intended.

But really   I do believe that "bases" are overly emphasized.  Go fast, create more gears, and get faster  but do leave yourself feeling like you can run again the next day or that your next run with its purpose can be achieved, or what have you gained?

I remember back in my Cat 2  racing days (feels like another life ago)   The Coach would have us cycle for like 2 months or so or 1500 miles  limiting us to a low heart rate zone.   absolutely no speed, no racing.  Heck "Try not to even sweat"   You are just building muscle and your engine.  Blood vessels, capillary action.   Part of the concept was that if you went hard,  you would destroy those little capillary action you were building.     I'm pretty sure all of that was BS but it was strongly pushed.     

Anyhow this kind of thing is pushed over and over  yes mostly to avoid injury, and it also does serve a purpose for "economy"   .   It's just that, that purpose is also achieved by the long run/ride.  And frequency.   Some times you just gotta go fast.          Goose?  Yes Mav....   "I feel the need".    Don't do it Mav      "FOR SPEED!!!!!"   Oh he did it.  oh man.

Ya you probably can.  You have a run base.    And like I said previously, don't need it so much to go harder on the bike.  But there will be some pain involved the next day   lol    But you won't get hurt.     MASHING gears CAN hurt your knees.   so work on a higher cadence, less mashing.    Really "spinning"   is good generally on a bike, vs. mashing big gears.   Involve the pulling up muscles  versus just the pushing down.  pretty circles.   If you focus on that and have the right bike fit,  you will get sore, but not hurt.

Here are a few from the last couple weeks that I logged and sent to my buddies:

#1

Warmup: 3x100 easy (Focus on form.  Stretch your stroke, exaggerate your reach and pull.)

Main set 1:

3x50 free (not pace, but not fast.  Moderate.)

50 kick free

3x50 fly

50 kick fly

3x50 back

50 kick back

3x50 breast

50 kick breast

150 pull (freestyle with no kick.  Use hand paddles if you have them)

Main set 2:

3x50 pace (pace means swim strong but with good form and then take enough rest to be able to repeat at the same pace ad infinitum)

150 hold pace (which means swim as fast as you were swimming pace, but just hold that pace for 150 instead of stopping to rest at 50)

3x50 pace-5 (so, your “pace” is the time it takes you to finish the 50 plus your rest.  So for me  pace on a 50 will be about 55 seconds including swimming and rest.  So pace-5 is 5 seconds faster, including rest.  At pace I'll swim the 50 in 45 seconds and take 10 seconds rest, at pace-5 I’ll be swimming it at 45 and taking 5 seconds rest.)

2x150 descending (on a descending set of 150’s, every consecutive 150 should be faster than the one before it.)

3x50 strong

3x150 descending (so your last 150 should be basically at a race pace)

100 cool down

#2

  Warmup

o   3x100 easy

·         Main set 1

o   50 kick fly

o   4x50 distance per stroke (dps)/fast

§  Dps is just what it sounds like, you’re trying to maximize the distance per stroke, or minimize the number of strokes it takes to complete a length of the pool.  Generally one does this by stretching and gliding, and just trying to be as efficient in your stroke as possible.

§  When a set says something like “50 dps/fast” it means the first 25 is dps, second 25 is fast

o   50 kick fly/back

o   8x50 choice/dps

§  Choice means whatever stroke you want (i.e. fly, breast, back, free).  It is generally discouraged from doing free when told choice, because choice is supposed to be a break from free as free is the overwhelming majority of the workout usually.  I almost always do breast stroke when not doing free because I'm not realistically going to do fly or back during a tri.

o   100 kick flutter

o   3x50 pace

o   3x50 pace-5

o   3x50 pace-10

§  Take a bit of a longer break between the last pace-5 and the first pace-10 so you don’t die.  Also, make sure not to start with a fast pace for your first 3x50 because it will be impossible to do the third set.

·         Main set 2

o   2x200 descending 1-2

o   2x100 pace

o   2x100 descending 1-2

o   2x50 descending 1-2

o   50 build (start slower and build to a strong finish)

o   2x50 strong

#3

Warm up: 300 pull
Main set 1
4x200 as follows
(25 kick sprint
50 dps/build
25 kick sprint
100 free/breast/free/breast
)
Main set 2
4x100 pace
Minute rest
3x100 pace-5
Minute rest
3x100 race minute rest btwn

#4

Warm-up of choice

 Main set 1:

4x (go through entire set below 4 times)

50 kick

4x25 push off the wall and sprint 5 strokes with no breath, then easy through the remainder of the 25

150 or 200 pull

Main set 2:

2x75 or 100 descending

100 IM or breast/free/breast/free all race pace

2x100 or 150 descending

100 IM or breast/free/breast/free all race pace

200 or 300 easy pull

Chrispy,  It sounds like our goals are similar. I did an Oly last year and planning on one this year also. Here the tri season is short and pretty much the opposite of yours. I can run outside in the winter, but that is about it. All the rest is done in pools on on a trainer. I don't have much advise to offer except don't ignore any one discipline during the off season. 

Happy to see this!  This will def improve your cycling experience! 

Thanks for the congrats everyone.  Much appreciated and I am still feeling very accomplished.  I am on the hunt for another indoor tri in Feb or Mar.  My first A race...the Carmel Sprint Tri...isn't until 4/14 and I want another race experience before then to keep building on my confidence.  yay!!

Funny story for all of you.  Preface this by telling you I am pretty intelligent...always head of the class, straight As, high achiever, analytical, etc.  However, I am completely mystified by anything mechanical.  An engineer I am not!  Soooo...keeping that in mind...it's sometimes funny to me that I am so dumb.  I mentioned recently that Coach Hubby and I bought a trainer for ourselves for Christmas.  A few years ago we borrowed one from a friend, but finally had to give that back, and we bit the bullet and got one of our own.  CH insisted, much to my dismay, that I learn out to get my bike on and off by myself so I wouldn't be dependant on him being home to do a ride.  Logical?  Yes.  Annoying?  Yes.  But, I let him teach me and I had it figured out.  So I thought.  Got my bike on and off several times by myself with relatively little trouble.  However...last night, after a 40 minute ride, I took my bike off and as I was lifting it off the trainer, I saw that I completely removed the rear tire from the bike.  WTF?  Tire completely off the bike.  When CH got home and I showed him, he's like...I can't even begin to guess how you did that and told me I even managed to disconnect the brake thingy.  Sigh.  Can't he just do it for me?!?!

Thought you all might get a giggle out of my ineptitude!     Have a good day everyone!

Jax

OK, a couple of questions for y'all. The other day DH (you remember Sati, right? he likely won't be back unless I do his bio and all of his logging) asked me "so what does Hashers and Mashers mean?" I just thought it was obvious...does anyone else know what it means?

Second question/topic. TJ mentioned that we should be Hashers, Mashers, and Crashers, which I love, but since I'm still a bit jumpy from my crash last fall, and quite superstitious, I didn't know if we would be jinxing ourselves. What do y'all think? Should we leave our name, change it to Hashers, Mashers, and Crashers, or maybe something like Hashers, Mashers, and Splashers - to get the swimming angle in there, as well? That, by the way, is a clue to question number one.

These questions are far more important than your training...so take your time and let's get it right

Ok.  Spent some time thinking about this last night and talking to a coworker who has been a serious runner for a long time.  My new running plan  from now till April 14 is as follows: Tuesday, 3-5 mile tempo; Thursday, interval/sprint/hill; Saturday, 7-9 mile easy; Sunday, 3-4 mile recovery.  Probably around early March I'll throw in a recovery week.  And obviously a week or so of taper.  Comments, concerns, and ideas for interval/sprint/hill workouts are appreciated.

Over the course of the next 12 weeks if I'm doing it right I should see my pace on tempo day increase and/or I should feel better afterwards, yes?  And presumably on long day I should be able to hold aerobic at a faster clip and feel better (though I'm of course not going for speed) as time goes on. 

I will do something similar on the bike, I suppose.  Scheduling will be more difficult though.

When do bricks fit in?

Sarah, I think the current name is great. The "crashers" addition was suggested without much forethought. Particularly in light of your crash last year.  Opps. Sorry.

What does Hashers and Mashers mean? It's just different ways to prepare potatoes right? 

I get mashing, but I don't know what hashing is. I'm not a superstitious person but even I cannot endorse "Crashers".

I googled the term "hashers" after you named the group and found a bunch of references to running and drinking!  A drinking club with a running problem is one definition I found.  I think it's a perfect name for this group!  Mashers I get b/c CH pi$$es me off when he tells me "you're mashing!" when I'm on the bike.  I'm with you on Crashers.  Hashers & Mashers is good for me!

Hello! I would love you join your group if you still have room. I am brand new to all things triathlon- as in I haven't bought my bike yet

I have always been fairly strong, healthy and active. I was a mostly SAHM for years and worked out regularly. I love weights, kettlebells, and intervals. Hate treadmills or anything that is the same over and over. I discovered I like running outside (which is possible more of the year here) a few years ago and was about to do my first 5K when A little over three years ago I went to work in the technology dept. of my local public school system. I have not done well incorporating my workout time with a 7:30-4:30 work day

I made up my mind to change that and have done well since the beginning of the year working out 5-6 days a week alternating strength training with intervals or running. I am a morning person by nature and just cannot get an effective workout in the evening.  I was given the challenge in a course I am taking to set some new fitness goals and about that time read about someone doing a Sprint Triathlon. I have been trying to absorb all I can about the sport since then. I would like to aim for doing a Sprint triathlon in August of this year.

Family info- I am 46, I have been married for 23 years, I have three sons 26, 22, and 15, with only the 15 YO still at home. I have two grandsons 6 & 6 mos. My husband does not workout, my middle son is extremely fit and may do a Sprint Tri with me, though he lives too far away to train with; my 15 YO is very athletic (track, football, basketball) but is way to cool at this time to do an organized sport with mom  

Weight- is really not an issue for me. I could stand to loose 10-15 lbs (which is probably more like 5-10 for an average woman) but health is my main priority. I try to eat very clean, as much whole food as possible. I do eat some meat but try to limit it to venison and  fish a couple of times a week. I do eat eggs and some dairy. I am working on eliminating gluten.

My biggest obstacle is almost none of my friends are athletic at all. I live in a tiny small town- so no live support in this- and I am OK with that- I tend to do my own thing, but online support would be nice.

Melody

I am in if you will still have me.

Name: Mandy

Story: I am a 24 year-old graduate student in Arkansas.  I am originally from Michigan and hope to move back after graduation in May. I am a complete beginner to triathlons.  I have completed a few 5ks but have never done anything competitvely.  I am looking for people to help keep me motivated as I train and give me ideas.  Completting a triathalon is on my bucket list so I figured I would get started on that now instead when I am older.  I also hope to find a strong community of friends to compete with.

FAMILY STATUS: I am the oldest in my family.  I have a younger sister who is a senior in high school.  I am currently single.

CURRENT TRAINING: I am training myself and really need all the advice and motivation I can get.

THIS YEAR'S RACES: I have been looking into quite a few different races.  My main goal right now is one.  As of now I am aiming for end of June.

WEIGHT LOSS: I have lost over 50lbs with Weight Watchers.  I really need to ramp of my physical activity to help with the last few lbs and toning.

Fast is a relative term, of course, but I'm comfortable with the distance, and my intention is to get faster at it.  My goal for the run part of the olympic tri in April was about a 7:40 pace.  I ran my tempo/race pace today for 3 miles and came in at 7:30ish/mile, and felt like I had just worked out, but good.  I do know that I will have to be careful about pushing myself harder than appropriate based on my competitive nature going into a tri with my coworkers, with whom as I said even the littlest things turn into a competition, but at the same time I feel comfortable with my plan and if that changes I'll adjust.  I do appreciate your advice though, and I'll try to listen to my body.

Good tips.  I have done bricks in prep for my previous tris, and they have certainly made a difference, but you make a very good point with regards to doing them on a race pace day as opposed to a long slow day, I'm not sure that in training for my previous tris I held to that.  When you do a brick are you running at race pace as well?  Or just enough to get your legs used to it?