Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - Closed Until Next Season (Page 6)

I researched the trainers for a LONG time and there was a fairly solid consensus here, on slowtwitch, different cycling forums, different review sites, etc. that Kurt Kinetic Road Machine was the best trainer for the price. There are pro level higher end ones that are as good/better, but for the $$, it seemed to be the best buy. The fluid trainer aspect has a real road feel to it, and the KK one is supposed to never leak, whereas the Cycleops fluid trainer (which was a contender for me) supposedly has leak issues or potential leaks. KK also has a lifetime 100% warranty, even if you're not the original owner. KK has higher end models like the Rock and Roll one that leans, but the Road Machine was good enough for me.

Once I decided on it, and knowing about the warranty and how it was supposedly bulletproof, I started looking for the best price for a used one. Barely used ones are going for $225-275 on ebay, with the grey ones sometimes in the $150-175 range. The grey one is the earlier model, the green one the new model, but I haven't found any difference stated anywhere, so I was willing to go with either. I was avoiding the classifieds on slowtwitch, as I would rather have one that a regular joe ordered, tried out, then put in his garage than one from someone who probably rode 10,000 miles on it. :-) I scoured craigslist too. I looked for about 3 weeks and then found one on craigslist that someone got as a present and had ridden 3 times and put away. They didn't say they would ship but I called the guy and he was willing to ship it, so I got it for $200 plus $18 actual shipping costs. I've already put 150 miles on it and love it! It's amazing. So quiet, so smooth. Oh! I got the green one plus a riser ring for the front wheel for the $200.

I had a great time in Omaha. It's a tough course for me. I bettered my time by 10 over last year and a 9 minute improvement on the bike. I'm a somewhat happy with that as my most structured training over the past 9 months has been on the bike (on the trainer, with trainer road and the sufferfest.). Now I need to improve the other areas.

I have lots more to say about the race, trainers and trainer road that I will write when I'm not exhausted. The race was hard, but a day at the zoo with the family post race was harder.

I had Jesse in my sights on the run and tried to chase himm down. The problem is that he was on mile 5 and i was on mile 2. Needless to say I couldn't catch him. He looked exactly like he did in his profile pic when I saw him running toward me.

Great info! thanks a ton!
I have a little time so I may shop around as well and try to find something slightly used.

I own a Cycle Ops Fluid 2 and love it. Like the Kk, it has a lifetime warranty and I've heard nothing but great things about their support. You really can't go wrong with the Kk or Fluid 2. If pressed to choose one or the other, I would probably also choose the Kk. I bought the Cycle Ops for one single reason: the team I am on has an amazing discount with one of our local bike shops and they don't stock the Kk so I was able to get my Cycle Ops for about half of what I could get a Kk at the time.

One advantage that the Kk has over the Fluid 2 is formal support from Trainer Road. This means that Trainer Road has verified the published power curve of the Kk but have done less testing with the Cycle Ops. That said, I use it with TR 4-5 times per week and tons of other people do too.

The would not hesitate to buy either one although if it was me, I'd go for new or ery gently used as John did. Even tho they have great warranty, it still would be a pain to ship it back and wait if you could avoid it.

Imo, coupling your trainer with an Ant+ and sped/Cadence sensor along with Trainer Road is the any to go. John hit the nail on the head here. TR is a great value and i think the single best investment I've made as far as training tools.

As John said, TR basically forces you to get stronger. It takes away the guess work and eliminates perceived exertion confusion (like those days you just done feel like working as hard).

If you want to take it a step further, throw in some Sufferfest videos and you've got an amazing bike training tool.

In fact, if anyone is interested in trying the Sufferfest let me know and I'll give you a video free (I own all of them, and there are 2 that I have duplicate licenses for since I bought a package of them when they were on sale over the winter.) Just let me know if you would like to try one.

Regarding the race this week in Omaha, I finished in 2:56 which is pretty far below than my goal time but it was about 12 minutes faster than the same event last year. I took about 10 minutes off my bike time and finished in my usual spot:middle of the pack.

first, congrats on the Omaha race!
second, i'm interested in sufferfest videos, just because I've heard people rave about them so much, but don't know or understand
how they would work with TR or do you use them in place of TR? or at the same time?

I haven't checked in for a while since I was on vacation last week. I did a sprint tri on very little sleep last Saturday . The race went ok, it was my first time racing on my new tri bike- unfortunately my average speed wasn't much different. The most important thing I took from the race was to cherish every day. There was an accident on the bike course, I came though long enough after it happened that there were athletes holding a tarp to block the scene as we slowed to pass it. I initially thought he must have been hit by a car, but I later learned that he hit a car that had run out of gas and was on the side of the road. Today the race director sent an email out that gave info about a memorial ride- in that email I learned that another triathlete died on the course on Sunday during the HIM. Apparently she was slowing down at a water stop and lost control of her bike and fell sustaining a head injury. She was air lifted to a local hospital but apparently died after a few days. I can't believe this happened twice in one weekend. The race director seemed beside himself. Last year 2 weeks after the race a long time competitor was killed on a training ride and they did a great job of remembering her at the start. It certainly makes me hug my little one a little harder before I go out for a ride, you just never know.

Hope all is well with everyone !
Paula

More good info. Thanks dp!
Great job on shaving 12 minutes off last year's time.. That is awesome!
Like, John, I'm not exactly sure how the Sufferfest works but if you are offering, I would be interested. Awhile back I did find some sufferfest trailers on youtube, and checked out their website. When I do get a trainer I imagine I will look a little harder at either TR or Sufferfest, or both.

Wow. This is terrible news. So sorry to hear this.

I hope this doesn't get old, but John is the one that started this...I'm a big fan of work on the trainer for many reasons. But one of the biggest reasons is just safety. All of my workouts start around 4:30 in the morning and I honestly hated the process of getting my bike ready with lights, reflective vest, choosing safer routes, etc. Plus, finding reliable workout partners early in the morning can be tough. I love the trainer because I can get on and go. I never stop at a traffic light and never have to worry about crazy drivers.

Here's a pretty interesting article that talks about Andy Potts and Meredith Kessler and how they train almost exclusively with a trainer: http://www.victorysedge.com/article_indoorbiking.htm

Regarding the Sufferfest: it can be used in tandem with TrainerRoad or on it's own. The Sufferfest videos are simply structured cycling workouts (pretty much high intensity interval training) with real racining footage and cool soundtracks. The videos have on-screen prompts that give guidance as far as perceived effort you should give, target cadence, etc. The biggest complain that I hear about trainers is that they are mind numbingly boring--plus people hate being stuck indoors. I use my trainer outside on my deck and the Sufferfest makes it anything but boring. If you're bored, you're doing it wrong.

Using it in tandem with TrainerRoad is the way to go, however. Once you have established your FTP (Functional Threshold Power ) by doing one of the threshold tests, Trainier Road gives you your target power for each interval.

John, the workout that I'm going to give you is called Revolver...and it's basically 1 minute repeats at V02 max.

If you do The Sufferfest video on it's own, you'll see 1 minute intervals of 10/10 effort. When paired with Trainer Road, you know that your "10" effort level is actually a tangible power rating. So, if you're not hitting the target power, you're not working hard enough. It's very simple, but i swear you'll feel it like no other.

I did a FTP test in January and my FTP was 198. I've done 2 more tests since then (most recently on Memorial Day) and my FTP is now 237. So as long as you re-test periodically and change your FTP, the workouts never get easy.

Hopefully, that makes sense on how Sufferfest and TR work together. TR is a great program on it's own and has tons of functionality on it's own. The Sufferfest just makes it even better.

John, I'll send you a link for you to download Revolver (they actually just released a new version of Revolver...same workout but with updated graphics. I bought the new one when it came out and have the license for the old one. It's the same workout, just without hte newer race footage and slicker graphics).

Dominion, I'd be glad to get you a copy of one of the videos but why don't you ask me again once you get a trainer...there may be someone who has a trainer now that can put it to use right away. My favorite video is set to be re-released later this year and I will likely buy the updated version so should have one to give away.

DP sent you a PM-

got the video and it integrates with trainer road and is really cool, but looks wicked painful! Thanks! (I think...)

Cool. Can't wait to hear your report (devious grin).

I'm interested in Jesse's thoughts on bike specific training. We all know he's a great runner, but his bike splits are very strong as well. Jesse, what do you think?

Checking in for the evening just real quick. Lots I've missed and I want to give it proper attention in the morning (Just got done working 10 hours for the day on the computer) since my brain is a little fried right now.

I'll have to think on the bike training since comparatively to other guys my age/fitness level my bike splits aren't too great and its an area I think I need a lot of improvement on as far as training techniques go, but I'll share my thoughts on that in the morning as well.

Regarding Trainers:
I'm riding with a Cycleops Jet Fluid Pro. I liked it better than the magnetized trainers I tried out at the LBS. Ended up getting it for the price of the Jet Fluid 2 since they were out of them at the time and they offered the Pro for their regular JF2 price so that was a good deal. I don't ride enough miles to really need the Pro model, but a deal is a deal and I needed a trainer at the time.

I haven't researched trainers really since then so I don't have much to say on other models. My pro has worked well for me although I would like to couple it with something, possibly Trainer Road as David was talking about, to get some more figures in this winter during training. I'd spring for a computrainer if I had cash to burn, alas I do not. I think they have like a 10% power gain guarantee or something so I want to put that to the test. I always keep hoping I'll win one in one of those contests, but no.

Paula:
That tri bike is partly an adjustment in saddle position. Your greatest speed difference will be seen when you start getting stronger and going faster. It's all about how much wind resistance is pushing against you and the bike in terms of the differential of speed you'll get from the better frame/body position on the tri bike vs your roadie. Glad to hear you got another race in.

Not that I'm really qualified by many people's standards to comment on philosophies of living (being so young), but to some degree I think every day should be taken as a step towards getting and maintaining real happiness. Be it from taking your son to little league practice, going to a pottery class at the local community center, or training for triathlon. No matter how long we live for I've heard time and time again that life is short.

I'm a big Game of Thrones fan so I now often reference this sentiment in part with a saying in the story that has multiple meanings beyond our discussion here, but George Martin writes in "Valar Morghulis" (All men must die). I think an apt and short way to remember our own mortality and to not take our breaths for granted.


Regarding Bike Training

I've done just a smidge of research regarding bike training schedules, but haven't ever really discerned exactly what I should be doing. So consequently I adapt my philosophies of run training over to the bike. I actually am only biking 2 days a week right now (3 days on weeks with a race or a brick). One ride is 2 hours long and the other 3 hours long covering 35-36 and 50-52 miles respectively. I had hoped to be riding double this amount this season, but alas it will be an accomplishment for next season's base period. The 2 hour ride comes on Thursday (I'm actually getting ready to head out for it) and is most often just a nice easy spin ride at 17-18mph for me. Legs are pretty well moving for 2 hours, but not typically any pushing going on because of how my schedule is Thursday is usually a recovery day. On occasion during my 2 hour ride I'll do some Out of Saddle Sprints (OoSS) for about 30 seconds to keep the high end of power output going in my legs(I can elaborate on why this is later if you're all interested), but overall its recovery.

The 3 hour ride is where I get my work done if its bike specific work. Technically speaking if I did a brick the day before I'll only ride for 2-2.5 hours because my current bike volume wouldn't dictate the full 3 afterwards. Anyway if there's no brick or race for the week I'll ride 3 hours (or 52 miles, whichever comes first). The first hour is always going to be that nice comfortable 17-18mph spin just getting the legs warmed up. On interval days the next hour will get broken up into sets depending on the goals for the day (some days I'll do 40k pace, some are threshold, some are 40k hard which is a pace I could maintain for 40k, but not run off the bike with). Then a cool down period. Usually my cool down only amounts to 30-35 minutes on speed days given that I travel much further in the hour doing intervals than just riding a "long ride."


It's hard to pinpoint precisely what my bike training plan is because it is cohesive with the rest of my training schedule. My overall arcing philosophy for this year has been to train all my "systems" (Aerobic, threshold, anaerobic, etc.) all year round. Increasing intensity and duration as the season builds (so during base I'm doing more aerobic as is typical as I build mileage, then mileage stops building and intensity starts building). So far its actually turned out quite nicely as my run gains have been about where I wanted them and I believe the bike gains should hopefully be there on a flat course (I went 21.9mph at nationals last year and wanted to go 23mph this year. I did a TT last week during my "3 hour workout" the Sunday before Omaha and came out at 23.6mph for approximately 22 miles on a comparable course).

The kind of schedule I set up for myself is not the way I would set up a training schedule for someone beginning the sport since you have to have an aerobic base for a few years in my opinion before throwing in the extra stuff or you'll probably end up annihilating yourself. Luckily I don't have to think about the swim workouts at all since they're written for me so I have that advantage as well, but we do work speed all year growing intensity and duration similarly as we approach our final A race.



I'm sure I've done a perfectly good job of answering without answering your question above. Clarifying questions will probably prod more useful answers out of me instead of letting me ramble on behind a keyboard without any oversight on such a broad topic.

Did another sprint tri this a.m. - Was very happy with my effort and my time. Fastest 5K of the season, open run or in a tri. I pushed hard on the bike and averaged 20.3 mph for 11 miles (my bike computer results, no official results online yet). Swim was in open ocean with surf entry, and that went well too. All in all a perfect race for me! The bike and run course was FLAT as flat can be, as in no elevation change at all. I was a little bummed to be still dead MOP finish, but it makes sense that if it is flat and fast for me, it's flat and fast for everyone, so everyone has great times. But I pushed 100% and did the best I could and was happy with the results!

John

Nice job, John.

I raced Saturday morning myself. It seems like you and I are in similar places in our triathlon endeavors. I too seem to be making solid gains in all 3 sports but also remain stuck MOP.

My race wasn't flat this week though, some major rolling hills. I even hit a PR 40.0 mph on a long downhill...the bike course was the most fun I've had riding in awhile.

It was a small race and I took 12th overall out of 52 athletes, but still could not crack the AG Podium. This 40+ crowd is tough.

The positives I'll take from it are the #1 swim split out of 8 in the AG and the #2 run split. (Bike was 4th I think but about 4 minutes back so wiped out my small gains in swim/run.) Also a positive is that I raced against one of the better athletes in my AG that I raced earlier in the year in a similar distance/hilly course. In April he beat me by 11 minutes, yesterday he beat me by 3 minutes. Maybe he had a bad day or something, but I'll take it as I'm closing the gaps a little.

I'll get a full race report up on the blog tomorrow or Tuesday. Thanks for reading.

Edited by Dominion 2013-07-28 3:41 PM

I wouldn't say we're in similar places- you sound like you're doing awesome! 12/52 is FOP, not MOP if you divide it into thirds (FOP/MOP/BOP) :-) Congrats!

Nice job guys. John, love the fact that you left everything out there. What else can you do? One thing I'm learning in this sport is that the only thin ng I can control is me and my effort... Not who shows up, weather, etc. Look forward to reading more from you guys.

Thanks, but although my overall was a good result, I remain MOP in my AG. There were 8 registered in the M 40-44 and I was 5th fastest. One moved up to take 3rd overall, which moved everyone else up a spot making me 4 out of 7. Then at some point one apparently switched to Clydesdales which left only 6 officially ranked in the age group with me being 4th. About as MOP as you can get.

It's a competitive AG for sure (at least around here), we took 3rd, 4th, 6th, 10th, and 12th overall. But its like dp said, you can't control who shows up.
My goal however is that one day it won't matter who shows up, at least on the local/regional AG level.

With only 52 racing, you can imagine there were several categories with only 2 or 3 athletes. So it was frustrating to see people that I had beaten by substantial margins in some cases going up and getting their awards. But once I got back home and had a chance to see all the results on the internet I felt a lot better when I saw I was 12th overall.

No award = just more motivation to keep working harder!

I've been thinking about effort and post-race analysis/critique that I do to myself. After yesterday's race, I examined effort at all points and I think I can honestly say that I went as hard as I could during the SBR portions, but I see transitions as a place that I slack off. I think it's because I almost think of them as a break or something, like a break from racing. My T1/T2 times were 2:03/1:43 and I would estimate that includes about 100-125 total yards of jogging in/out of transition. I am not wasting time fumbling with gear or anything, don't sit down, don't wear socks, etc., the actual getting gear on/off is pretty fast, but I know I'm not "racing" during transitions. Like I remember getting my wetsuit off in no time flat, but then standing there in front of my bike for maybe 25-35 seconds resting, getting settled before I unracked my bike. Not sure why. But I know it would be a heck of a lot easier to cut 30 seconds from THAT than it would to cut 30 seconds from a 5k, for example. So it's not that I need to practice transitions, per se, but I need to mentally rehearse thinking of transitions as actual race time, especially in sprints where 3:46 seconds in total transition time really matters.

I just looked at the fastest transition times yesterday and 3rd place OA had T1/T2 of :39/:48 or 1:27 total. So that is 2:19 faster than me! For argument's sake, if I had his transition time, with my exact same SBR times, I would have finished 3 places higher in my AG and 60 places higher OA! Interesting... thoughts??

Edited by johnmoran 2013-07-29 7:14 AM

Transitions are definitely a place to shave some time. My splits this weekend were :47 and :52 respectively. And while these are getting better, I was amazed to see the race winner go :18 and :18. I mean that is beyond my comprehension how you come in, rack you back, put on running shoes, and run out in 18 seconds. Lots of skill and technique involved I'm sure, something else to work on and improve on.

Practice, practice and more practice. Transition workouts (not bricks) where you actually go through the motions of your transition are the real key here. Also, let me know all the items you guys have in your transition zones (down to where you are placing body glide or not) and I'll tell you what you don't need and what you might need for faster transitions. I'm not the be all end all triathlon guru, but I've had some of the fastest transitions at almost every race I've attended since things are simplistic and I follow a rhythm so I know this is a definite easy fix for you guys I can help with.



John: Great to hear you're out racing again and that your performance was above expected. It's always good to get out and race some of those flat courses so you know exactly how much you left on the course (everything in your case it sounds like). Hilly courses are okay, but I like those flat ones for that all out empty the tank efforts.

Thanks Jesse.
I haven't figured out the flying bike mount technique yet so i know that is one place to save time in T1.

Anyway, here is a step by step of my transitions.

Bike is racked by the seat. Helmet is upside down on the aerobars, straps pulled out and ready to go. Sunglasses inside the helmet. A towel by my front wheel. On the towel is my running shoes in back and cycling shoes in front. On top of the running shoes is my race belt/number and visor. Next to my shoes is my watch.

I come into T1, drop my goggles and swim cap on the ground, then slip my feet into bike shoes. Grab my sunglasses, slip them on, then grab the helmet, snap the chinstrap, unrack the bike and head out. Most of the time here is just the time it takes to bend down and slip the shoes on. They go on pretty easy and I use baby powder.

T2, I am out of my shoes on the bike as I approach the dismount line. I enter the Transition, rack the bike. Take off the helmet and set it on the aerobars. I bend down and slip on the running shoes. While I am bent down, I throw on the visor and then stand up with the race belt and watch in my hand. I start heading out while fastening the belt around my waste and then slipping on the watch and starting it as I head out. (I don't wear the watch for the entire race, as I just use it to help with my pacing on the run.)

I may make a change to putting on the race belt in T1 and just ride with the number to the back. I know this would be very minimum in time savings but I was just thinking I could have it hanging/sitting on the aerobars and could slip it on in T1 so as to not have to bend down and grab it in T2.

My general pace while in the transitions is kind of a jog.

Race report is up on the blog.
It's a short one.
Thanks for reading.

my transitions are 100% the same as this, except I already have my watch on and don't have a visor. So in my transition zone is small towel, cycling shoes, running shoes, number belt. Helmet on aerobars with sunglasses inside. That's it. I use tri-glide spray on my calves before the swim to get wetsuit off in almost no time. All my wasted time in T1 is spent standing there like a statue after I get my wetsuit off. Not sure if it's lightheadedness from the swim or what. I just don't seem to be able to get moving, in retrospect/thinking about it, it almost seems like
procrastination! Like I know the pain that's coming or something and I'm not ready yet for it. I can't figure it out, but it's happened in all three of my races this season. It doesn't happen when I practice transitions, just during actual races, but it's probably costing me 30-45 seconds at least. T2 seems to go faster without a lot of wasted time, though I do sometimes stand there for 10 seconds and put my race belt on, even though when I practice T2, I put it on while running. Self-sabotage maybe? :-)