Gun Advocates, What Say You?? (Page 6)

why shouldn't college be free? or at least have inflation rate student loans?

You can make college free.....then it will be like High School.  The people who get the jobs will have advanced degrees and a bunch of people will start whining that it should be free as well.  Here's the bottom line, to me.......there will always be people who rise above others...and a percentage of those "others" will whine that it's not fair.  And sometimes it actually won't be fair.....like life. But mostly it will just be people who ar emore driven to be successful.  I think that's good.

What we need to work on is getting that segment of society who depends on the rest of us to be able to fend for themselves......or at least give them the tools.  We can't even get them to stay in High School and you want to make free college.  How about we prop back up our innner city schools that we have allowed to rot and decay.  How about we make them sources of pride in those neighborhoods again.  How about we worry about poor kids staying in school, period, before we worry about getting them a college education.

I think part of the problem is that everyone wants to start in the middle of the problem instead of at the begtinning.  You can't do that and expect any decent outcome.

first of all, the way you went to college is impossible for most people, tuition costs more than a full time job at minimum wage. 

second.  expecting nothing from others doesn't mean you have to be a selfish shite.

So then dmiller5, what you are saying is your employer should have no expectation of you performing work for the wages you receive? Your wife should have no expectation of you fulfilling your vows. Your kids should have no expectations of you caring for them. Your creditors should have no expectations of you paying them back. I'm not sure you understand the world you live in.

There is nothing in this life that is free. Nothing. Not even the air you breath. You actually have to draw air in. That takes energy. Energy you got from a plant or an animal that you had to do the work to feed it to yourself. Life is not free. And if you want to remain alive, you have to work. And if you want a good life, you have to work harder.

To expect something from somebody is to believe in them. Not only do you belive they are capable, you believe that they actually will. To expect nothing from somebody, is to believe that they have absolutely zero worth.

You know what, that's not true.  I thought the same thing before we had to dive into the whole college thing this year for Jr.  But I have found that tuition at our state schools is MUCH cheaper than I thought it was....and I can't imagine it can be much different anywhere else.  I know we like to throw out BIGT numbers for college costs......but you can attend SE Missouri State for 230/credit hour, fees included.  You can attend the St. Loiuis Community college (they have a GTRAET reputation and their credits transfer easily) for 103.00 per credit hour......fees included.

This idea that college costs 20,000-25,000 per year is wrong.  Kids living at home can easily afford college on a minimum wage job.  Maybe not the college they want.....but they can continue their education.

Got it. I did think you meant anything outside of 1-12. Not that that is bad... but again, I don't think it solves things.

Agree completely.  College "can" be expensive, but this is a whole other problem in our society where kids want to go to the expensive private school.  Our government gives them unlimited loans with no qualifications or strings which results in a PHD in German Basketweaving and $300k in student loans.

One of my sons best friends is going to community college and she's paying for everything herself.  Tuition is $56 per credit hour and she's majoring in Business.

Another component is scholarships and grants for lower income people.  The less you and your family make in income the easier it is to get scholarships and grants.  My kids worked their butts off and applied for a ton of scholarships and grants but got absolutely nothing because their Dad (me) makes too much money.
This bugged me at first, but I've slowly come around to understanding it a little better.  However, it did give me a whole new perspective on poor people that complain about not being able to afford college.  It's amazing how many programs there are out there that make it easy to overcome for those that want to.

I was thinking it, but wasn't going to say it.  

I have some student loans....but I also bought a house at age 25 so I'd say my "investment" has been just fine thank you.  I went to my state school, $22,000 a year room and board. 

You say that they can live at home...well that isn't an option for everyone.  You can't just make that assumption.  so 22,000 a year, + textbooks, for me in engineering that was 500+ a semester, so that's now $23,000. 

A minimum wage job is $15,080 if you work 40 hour weeks.  So explain to me how minimum wage makes it possible to work your way through college?  This is the state freaking school.

and don't tell me community college because you can't get a 4 year degree in engineering at a community college.

X

You can do all of your non-engineering classes at community college and save a ton of money.  Obviously water under the bridge at this point, but the credits transfer one for one at all the community colleges here.

Living on campus is very expensive and it's not necessary.  We realized this very quickly with my oldest after his first year.  He got a couple roommates and rented an apartment.  His portion of the rent was $200/mo. and living on mac n cheese and ramen is very cheap.  His living costs went from $10k per year down to about $2000.  He's an engineering student as well and has a job doing tech support on campus and makes $12/hr.  He's doing quite well financially and is paying for most of his tuition.  We are helping him out as well but if we weren't he could still cut it.

The problem I see after a few years of experience is many kids don't think about the financial aspects of college at all and simply go where their friends are going and take all the student loans uncle sam will give them.  They live on campus (which is very expensive) because that's what they're supposed to do.  They eat in the cafeteria because that's what they're supposed to do.  Fast forward four years and they're $80-$100k in debt and many times have a degree that pays very little.  I discovered that there were a bunch of stupid things that the school adds in such as "spending money" and "miscillaneous money" to tack on even more to the student loans.  I forget the percentage, but I'm pretty sure there's even a 5% (might be less) "origination fee" for all federal student loans just to hammer you a little more.  

On an encouraging note, I'm glad to hear you got an engineering degree.  That should help you get the loans paid off quicker than most.

We should make shooting somebody illegal.  That will stop people from doing it.  Oh wait...  hehe

lol, it would fix everything.

I agree with PM....that kind of thinking is maddening!!

Yep, he's a good man.  It appears we have pared PCOJ down to folks who can have a discussion even when they are nearly polar opposites in ideas/beliefs.  That's a good thing. 

I'm a bad sport, and you're all wrong about everything.  STOP TELLING ME YOUR OPINIONS...unless they are in line with my own.

Happy Columbus Day?