GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 66)

ANNE gain -

NICE run, and especially good on no neuroma problems!!

For me, I had some hints of neuroma discomfort for the first km of a run today, but then it settled down and was not noticeable for the last 10km. Whew!!

Today was a "triathlon" day for me -- 60-minute ride this morning, 31-minute swim around noon, 56-minute run this afternoon. It just seemed like the way to get things done today, so that's how it happened. Wasn't in the going-to-bed plans last night, to be sure!

Happy Friday everyone!! Does anyone have any big plans for the weekend? Hope all the training is going well. Keep up all the good work!

We had such a fun baseball game on Wednesday night. The boys were down after the second inning 0-7; third inning still down 3-10. Their coach was getting rather frustrated and told them they might as well just go up and swing the bat and at least get some batting practice in. They ended up scoring 14 runs in the bottom of the last inning (9 runs before the first out). We were home team and they called the game for time before they even got their last out. Final score 17-10.   

Lisa

Edited by lufferly 2010-02-19 7:07 AM

MANDY -

Oh, I do so love anatomical drawings! In my unwilling quest to be the first kid on the block to collect all the major and minor lower-body injuries, I have spent no mean amount of time studying such drawings ---- but still can't get enough of them!

As I've said before here, however, i have no medical training other than in dealing with my own problems, so for anything I say here, take it with a grain of salt and consult your actual Chosen Professional Doctor if anything seems really wrong. I often wonder if I should shut up entirley about injuries, but then figure that at the very least I can maybe steer people in the right-ish direction so they can deal with what ails them on thier own. In most cases the stuff that befalls us is hardly life-threatening, so if we can avoid visiting a doctor, all the better.

IF it is posterior tibial tendonitis in your case, then when it has visited me it has not been a big problem. Ice works, a bit of rest works......and most telling for me was that it was what steered me away from stability shoes several years ago. I guess I had been in the Asics 2000-series for a while, and then went with their stability racer, thre DS Trainer, and when I went back to the 2000-whatever, my post tib tend acted up. Went back to DS Trainer, was fine, returned to 2000, as not. So I ditched the 2000s, and eventually found the promised land with neutral shoes, and I haven't had any real issues with the PTT since then.

Your case does sound more persistent than any of mine, so it might not be the same. In fact, re-reading your post and looking at the diagram it seems as if what is bugging you is much higher than posterior tibial tendonitis -- you are pointing to a place that finds its way right back up into the gastrocs, right? From the range you mention, it sounds as if it is covering a lot of ground along the extent of your calf, with nothing veruy much localized (which might be good that it is spread out more?). With your marathon 11 weeks away, it might be time to get a true opinion of this now so that it can be treated and be ready for the 26.2. Tough call, especially if you are seeing any signs of improvement here and there.

And I saw your name yesterday! In visting the sight fro Pirates Tri, I searched to see if any of my worthy opposition are yet registered, and no, they aren't, but there YOU were -- all formal, too, with "Amanda". Sounds like a nice race; did you do it last year?

ANNE -

The second post I wrote to you yesterday, the one adorned with the row of six smilies, was finished under duress. Lynn had just arrived home and I was rushing it so as to be attentive to her.....and then she ended up commandeering the computer all night so I never got back to it.

ANYHOW, I mentioned what I did yesterday by way of getting back to your question from a few days ago about whether I follow any sort of training plan. So, the answer is "NO!", and the fast follow-up is that I just make it all up as I go along. My days aof being coached were from '03-early'07, and since then I've just been on my own, left to my own devices. This seems to work really well for me..........but I often wonder how much I could improve if (a) I followed a rigorous "scientifically-designed" training plan, and (b) I started once again training seriously for specific races. I will probably do the latter this season, but have no immediate plans to return the former -- although dealing with the training plans for you and other in thre group, it does have its appeal. (But not enough to lure this here free-spirit back to a world of prescribed discipline!)

That was my first tri ever! It is a blast! Very fun, well organized, hilly bike course, highly recommended.  Tri-Maine does a great job.  It started my obsession with tri, and also made me realize that after a year of not doing much, I was pretty out of shape.  I know AMANDA - only my mother calls me that, but I always sign up for races with my full name because it makes it easier to pay up later (credit card).

KASIA -

Good to have you back! I was worried about you! I sometimes feel like an old mother hen, clucking around worriedly about her brood. Yeah, I know, that's not a very appealing image to have of a 61-year old make, but it is what it is!

Thinking about you especially the past couple of days while watching the snowboarders at the Olympics. The halfpipe stuff was fun, and like everybody else I'm blowbn away especially by Shaun White -- who also gives off-the-charts interviews. And I love the use of the term "amplitude" in describing the maneuvers/tricks they do. Are you getting out much on your snowboard?

Hang in there with keeping your life in balance! I understand all of the pushes and pulls you are experiencing, as does everybody else here. The term "balance" really is the key, and once that gets badly out of kilter in any direction, it's time to reassess everything. Almsot certainly, though, in time your Base will be built and the rest of it will fall into place, piece by piece.

Stay in touch, lest Mother Hen here worries again.

Cluck, cluck!

LISA -

And a happy Friday to you, too!

That game sounds like a hoot-and-a-half ---- at least for the members of your son's team. The relief corps of the other team is a bit shaken I would imagine, not figuring that the "batting practice" approach used against them would be so devastating. Yeah, 17-10 is much more reminiscent of a hard-fought football game, isn't it?!

This is high-school ball, yes?

Oh yes, I know you are not a Dr, and don't consider what you are telling me "medical advice", it is information from someone with some experience who might have been through something similar. BUT I do like to go to my Dr and have her look for certain specific things, or else she kind of comes at me with the shotgun approach (you know, a spray of shots trying to figure it out, multiple appointments months apart, the key event comes and goes, injury stays). 

This isn't serious yet, it is enough of an attention getter that I want to nip it in the bud.  There is no good sports doc around here but I have an appt w/my doc next week.  She is going to tell me to stay off of it, I am sure, that is what she always says about any ache.  BUT if I can get her to help me pinpoint the issue, I will research it, see if she is right about no activity (that is her treatment for EVERYTHING), or if I could treat it and keep going, or if I really do need to go down to Portland to see a real Sports Dr, and go from there.

ALSO have my 2XU's already!  I am going to run today at lunch.  See how it goes.

Thanks again,

Mandy

MANDY -

After years of having Stephen on my credit cards, I finally got one that just has Steve. I have never gotten over the scars of having my Nana NEVER calling me anything other than Stephen. I mean, I went through my whole childhood being a typical grubby, snotty-nosed, rough-and-tumble chowderhead boy ---- and she's there calling me by the very hoity-toity sounding "Stephen". Yechh!

Tri-Maine does do good work, although that is based on my one race with them, Lobsterman. But they have been dutifully building their races for several years, seeming to prefer doing it in increments rather than just jump in and hope to have everything in place, yesterday.

The profiles for both the bike and the run at Pirate show them as being none-too-flat, to be sure!

MANDY again -

How did you get the 2XUs already? Are you on a direct line with the God of Gear?!?

LOL - Triathlete Sports is in Bangor, Maine.  I get most of my stuff there just because they are local and fast - they do mail order through the website only. I was as surprised as you were to be honest, I think I just ordered them yesterday.  Most all mail that comes here goes through Bangor, so they must have gotten it in the mail early yesterday. 

Thanks for answering that question.  It makes me feel better about how I am handling my training.    I think the generic training plans can be good for people just starting out in triathlon because the whole thing is so overwhelming and having your plan laid out makes it that much easier.   The problem I have found is that most people, inlcuding myself, overestimate their abilities and choose a plan that is too physically demanding.   All my injuries occurred in the early years when I was following plans from various sources.  

After 3 years of reading several books, many of which you have mentioned, and training with a local tri club I decided to try and work out my own training plan.   Used the previous years' volumes as a base to create a yearly, periodized plan following Marc Evan's template.   That part was pretty easy.   I put alot of hours in the first year creating workouts over the winter season and it was fun and a learning experience, but had difficulty as we got into the race season (lack of knowledge).   I remained injury free, and was making real progress with the running.    However, this year I have been waffling back and forth when I see everyone using a 'scientifically designed' program, thinking maybe I should go back to that.     But I am finding it hard because I liked the freedom of designing my own workouts each week.    So much more flexibility and I find it less stressful.    When I use the other plans, if I don't get the training done, it feels like failure and will go to no ends to get that training done regardless of what my body is saying.   Plus, the really good plans are written that way for a reason and when you start to tweak them you can get into trouble.  However, I think I am getting better at that now, as well.   But when I was first starting out, it was disastrous.

SO, I am thinking I will use my current plan for 2010 in terms of volume and take the 20 wk Level 1 HIM plan from the Fitz book (which is on order), and use it to help me with the actual workouts.   Does that makes sense?   Sort of the best of both worlds.   I have a feeling the volume of the Fitz program will fit with my projected total volume for this year - 4500 km bike, 200,000 meters swim and 1,000 km running.    I might be shy on the running.  

Having you to bounce ideas off re the weekly workouts makes me feel more confident about the process.  

Better get off this computer and move over to my bike or I won't be getting much done today.     

STEVE -

I approve of the alterations you have made and are planning to make in your program! Holding back on the ride two nights ago was almost certainly the right thing to do ---- although I fully understand the feeling you had after it that you wish you had pushed harder during it. (But keep that mantra going -- "active recovery, active recovery, active recovery....")

Just reducing intensity for a few days will help a lot, i think, and the visit to your dad couldn't come at a better time. And if your HR gets up to Z4 or beyond during the basketball game......I think you can handle that! (Well, as long as the Jayhawks end up winning!)

All in all, it looks like this week and extending into Sunday's Z2 ride will constitute a good recovery week for you. The workouts are there to keep you active, but the intensity and distance are not, so your body should be recovering quite well.

When you get a chance, let me know what your longest few rides and runs have been obvert he past month or two. I have the feeling that you are easily on pace for more-than-adequate training for SG, but I read your concerns about maybe needing to do more with "only" 10 weeks to go (I'm subtracting the "2 days", as your post was two days ago! And the quotataion marks around "only" are there because the "only" is from your post. To my mind, 10 weeks is still a lot of time. If you have at least one two-hour +/- run and one four-hour +/- ride under your belt already, then you are on target. And the visit done to SG lst weekend and the one planned for next month? PRICELESS!!!!

(Mantra #2 -- "don't panic, don't panic, don't panic, don't panic, don't panic.......")

ENJOY THE JAYHAWKS!!

Hey everyone, Happy Friday! Hope everyone has a good weekend! After work today, I'm off to see my parents and check out the Canadian (Toronto) Autoshow. Should be a good weekend.

So I decided that since I will not be getting in a workout Fri, Sat or Sun, that I would run and bike last night. So I did a 5k in a new PB of 28.5 min, with some varying pace. Felt good while doing it. However getting off and going downstairs my knee was yelling at me again. During the cycle class it was not bad. However walking and stairs again were not my friend. Iced and took some Ibuprofen prior to bed and it feels pretty good today. Also, I ran on Tuesday, with same discomfort/pain while walking and with stairs. Iced for a short time and no NSAID's resulted in pain on Wednesday.

Looking at Mandy's diagram above, got my intrigued...So I started poking around for some knee diagrams. What I came up with is that the area of discomfort is right on the lateral side of the fibula (large bone right?). Definitely below the knee, not in/behind. I did not see any information on ligaments/muscle/tendon there. Closed thing I could find is lateral collateral ligament which is close but was not where the most aggravated area was last night. So, Dr. SteveB, any of this sound like something you know about?

As for the Stephen/Amanda comments, my mother has been trying to confuse me since birth. First off, Shaun is not my first name, yet it is what I have always gone by (share my first name with my Dad, but could have gone with a different permutation). Then she picks a spelling most people have never seen so I have to spell it for everyone. On top of that it is as rare to find someone who can spell my last name. There has been more than one instance in my life where I have been skipped over for something because I was being called Robert, which I am finally acknowledging I have to respond to....

More fun, ordered the Forerunner off of E-Bay and waited 2 days to pay for it so it would deliver next week, knowing I am away this weekend and did not want it sitting outside. Low and behold it is at my local post office today!

Another question that is banging around in my head... Just cuious if anyone has used Glucosamine (how about Glucosamine Chondrotin)? I know it's mainly aimed at people with arthritis. Thinking along the lines of having family members with arthritis in their late 50's on up and me being pretty active and want to be for some time, was thinking maybe this might be something worth trying for 90 days on, 90 days off or some other timeframe. I've read studies on both sides that say it rebuilds cartilige and that it doesn't do anything. Thinking a little preventative maintenance might be a good thing. Any thoughts?

Also, thanks for the discussion on plans. They are interesting to read. With the plans I look at from Tri's for Dummies or Your First Tri (Joe Friel), I think I fall in somewhere in the middle and that if I were to go back to the begininning I would either significantly decrease my time or distances. I need to register for an event so I have can hold myself to some hard timeline and figure out a better schedule.

Not a great run today. I set out to do 2 miles in under 22 minutes but ended up quitting at 1.78m at 21:50. Neuroma was bothering me quite a bit. Oh well... Better runs ahead.

I'm really liking the new shoes though. They have just enough cushioning without feeling "squishy."

Hey there.

I tried taking this a few years ago when I was having shoulder tendonitis. It didn't seem to help. I asked my primary doc about it and he said that it tends to only help those who already have joint disease (arthritis, like you mention) and doesn't really do much preventatively or for tendonitis and the like... But I don't think there's any harm in trying. I'm all for trying anything and everything that's safe, because you never know what might work for you. Good luck!

Tracey

Hey Steve,
So far, I have had at least 4-5 rides of 3-4 hours, and 2 of 4 hours or more.  But I've yet to do my Century ride.  My longest runs so far are 1.5 hours, with my first 2-hour run scheduled for this Sunday when I return from KC.  The BeIRONFit program didn't call for any 2-hour runs until next week - in terms of long rides/run for that plan, I'm on-course - though I have to admit I'm behind on my bricks. 

The challenge for me is blocking out the other voices.  I'm pretty much on-track with the program I've been doing.  But I read posts of others claiming to be doing 6-hour rides and 20-mile runs and all of this, and it makes me think, "I'm behind".   At the same time, until  now, I've been of the mind that too much volume is a risk, and that you don't need to routinely run marathons to run a marathon, and routinely do 100 mile rides to ride 100 miles. 

But, I just booked my next trip to St. George (next weekend) and will do a brick on Sunday before my long run (and after a couple of days of rest).  I had intended to ride this AM, but hit the snooze instead.  My hill intervals yesterday must have been harder than I thought, as my glutes are fried right now.  LOL. 

All in all, my greatest concerns right now are swim and run.  And, due to travel this weekend and visiting mom the weekend of March 6th, those will both be heavy run weeks, which is good.  All I can do in Tennessee is run and swim, and so that is what I'll do.  Then refocus on long rides this next weekend and the weekend after Tennessee.  It'll all work out.  :-)

Concerning the glucosamine... when I had back problems a few years ago I took a glucosamine/chondroitin liquid supplement for a couple months.. I felt that it helped me.  Note that it takes a while to feel the effects (I recall reading that it would take 6 weeks) so not sure the on/off routine would be best.  I'd say try it for a couple months and see if you think it helping.
Now in your case it sounds like the problems is not necessarily the joint itself so the glucosamine may not be the answer.  From your description of your pain  I  think you need to 1. stop running until you get this at least diagnosed so you  aren't doing further damage;  2. get this checked by a doctor.  It's early enough to get this fixed up before the race season  starts but if you keep running through the pain you may be further aggravating/intensifying the injury.   I think you need to get a proper diagnosis and get working of  fix for this.

SHAUN -

Really well done on that run! How much improvement have you seen in the past couple of months? To my mind/memory, it is very significant! Are you keeping track of your run performances at all? Log? Random notes? You really should, just to give yourself the perfect reason to feel inspired and motivated -- that is, the big strides in a pretty small time frame!

Thinking about your knee problems, how often do you combine the run and the bike? It seems like that is the common procedure for you, and I'm wondering if your knee might respond well to splitting the two of them up. Just a thought!

A couple of people have already posted thoughts aboyt glucosmaine and chondroitin, and I don't have a lot to add. But as you mention, there are studies all over the place that contradict one another, and a few years ago I stopped following them out of a sense of confusion and frustration. However, we have it here at home, and I can't escape the idea that I should be using it regularly. I don't think it has any harmful effects, and I have read enough to feel that it might be beneficial. But as someone else (Cathy?) said, it is not a quick-fix and may take an extended course of usage before any positive benefits are realized.

When you get a chance, go to www.hammernutrition.com. On the left side click of Tissue Rejuvenator, which is under "Recovery". When T.R. comes up, look at both "Product Detail" and "Related Articles". There is some good stuff here.....although it may just add more fuel to the fires of Too Much Information. But over the years I have grown to really trust the Hammer people, and if they support the use of this, that, or the other thing, I'm inclined to follow their reasoning.

I have used T.R. for years, although not regularly (too expemsive). I always have some on hand, however, just in case. For what it's worth, the first three ingredients are 500mg EACH of glucomsamine sulfate, chondroitin sulfate, and MSM. Anyhow, read what they have to say about those three babies, and see if that helps you at all.

A few years ago I tried to remember to take shark cartilage regularly, haveing read that that was more effective than gluc or chon or MSM. It may well be, but in many cases of supllementing with me, I forget all too easily. I'm good on pain releivers and other things that promise quick relief of a problem, but for all of these cartilage-enhancers, they aren't designed for a quick fix.

Enjoy the auto show! Are you in the market, or simply a vehicle voyeur?

Vroom, vroom!

TRACEY -

Is the photo from Paddy Kelly last week? It's a good one!

Also a "good one" is today's run! I hear you that it wasn't quite what you wanted, but if the neuroma had been behaving you would've been pretty close to your goal distance/time. To me it shows that you not only set a realistic goal, but that you performed in close accordance to it. Well done!

Remember that, by and large, the best goals are the ones that are attainable......but juuuust out of reach. Of course, sometimes you really want to nail those goals and move onwards and upwards, but the worst goals are those that are impossibly easy at attain and just set a false sense of accomplishment. But your run goal of 2 miles in 22 minutes is right out there for you, probably yours for the atking within the next few runs. Cool beans!

And I'm glad that the new shoes are showing some promise. Whew!!

STEVE -

Jeez, I think you're in great shape as far as the progression of your training is concerned! In fact, I'd say your are ideally positioned for the bike, and right there with the run. After this weekend, it's ten weeks out for SG, right? Perfect!

Not so perfect is the situation for those in the SG crowd who are already at the 100bike/20run mileage. I mean, it may be that they are machines who can continue at this pace without either injury or burn-out, but if not machines then they are running some big risks. The big bike miles are unlikely to hurt them much directly, but in terms of overall muscle fatigue they are compromising themselves for any long runs -- which are pretty risky on their own, without adding the bike component to it.

There's a good reason why so many of the established programs do not put the big miles until fairly late in the training schedule, and my own coach att he time of my two irons was the same. I may have posted to you way back when the time-frame in which he had me doing my longest rides and longest runs, but they werem't until about 3-5 weeks out, if memory serves. (I'll try to remember to look into those logs for that info.)

Ironman training can exact many tolls, some of which are very insidious. So for a lot of those voices you are hearing that have you worried because they are churning out big numbers now and you're not yet there, they have no idea of what is going on beneath the surfaces of both their bodies and their heads. I HOPE that all turns out well for them, and for many I'm sure it will, but many others will become physical or psychologically casualties between now and race day.

The Fink plan is a good one, and he's coached dozens of people through successful iron races. He's got the credentials and history on his side, and you could hardly be in better hands. Keep the faith that he knows of what he speaks and prescribes!

And as my friend Rena Rubin frequemntly said: "The critical voices lie."

Go Jayhawks!

STEVE again -

To the best of my mind and memory, you're doing pretty good with the bricks. In fact, don't you have several longish ones -- like a three-hour ride and a 75-minute run? Where do you think you are lacking at this point?

T.C.V.L.! (?)

Hi STEVE:

Yup, the pic is from Paddy Kelly. In fact, we ended up on the race photographer's Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ted-Tyler-Race-Photographer/433339397...

Gotta love it!

Thanks for the encouraging words regarding the goals. My ultimate goal is to sustain a pace of less than 12 min/mile (preferably 11:30) - I think I can get there before the sprint in August.

Tracey

Hey Steve,

Yes, I've done a few longer bricks (2-3 hour rides and then about 60+minute runs).  I also have done the shorter bricks (45-60 minute bikes and 30-40 minute runs).  I keep telling myself that for the bricks, its all about getting the body moving one way enough to set a pattern, and then brick just long enough to settle into the new motion and get familiar with dealing with that discomfort. 

Now, I've kind of made that logic up in my mind, so I've no idea if that strategy will be sufficient.  I guess part of me knows that a brick after a 4-hour ride is harder than that after a 2-hour ride.  And that running for 2 hours off the bike is harder than 1 hour off the bike.  But is it really a good idea to do too many of those long bricks?  I'm going with "no"...but there are those damned voices!!!  LOL. 

Not sure if I posted on the other post, but I'll be back in St. George on the 27th now (I moved it up to adjust for some other family obligations).  I'll be setting up the entire weekend to hit the course as fresh as possible.  Might do a bit of a "mini taper" that week so I go into the long brick with fresh legs.  Goal is to do the bike from T1 through the end of loop 1 (about 70 miles) and then the 1st loop of the marathon course.  Hopefully with fresh legs, a good night's sleep and a start by mid-morning at the latest, the results will be much better and confidence building than last time.  Plus, it'll give me 7 full hard training weeks to make adjustments as needed.

STEVE B, actually 11 year old ball ... very unpredictable!! My older kids never played sports (more into fine arts stuff) so we've had fun with our youngest.  He is one of 4 kids on his team that have played together since they were 7, although we have a different coach now.  They'll be playing against 2 kids on their 7 year old team next week, so should be fun.  Nice tri workout the other day!

STEVE A, I think you will be more than ready for your race. Some people thrive on stressing themselves out, so might be best to put distance between them. I remember (many years ago) taking my nursing board exams which were all day with a break midday in Austin. At the midday break, there were so many of the "examinees" stressing about how they answered this question or that. After about 5 minutes of listening to that, I went off by myself for a nice relaxing swim in Barton Springs and was ready for the afternoon (and did really well on my exam). Listen to your body, and do what's going to work best for you. Can't wait for the SG report next weekend.

DENISE, have you gotten your wetsuits yet? I got mine, but am sending it back. Haven't decided whether to exchange for a bigger size or not. I have always had an aversion to anything constrictive, so it's going to be tough trying to find something that will work and still be comfortable.

SHAUN, haven't ever tried the glucosamine/chondroitin myself. The vet did suggest it to for my mother's old golden retriever and it seemed to help her get around easier!

TRACY, nice run! Hoping the new shoes will be even more helpful. I'm going to try to sneak off to Sports Authority for a new pair I tried on last weekend (without my husband and son finding out).  I like the shoes I got for Christmas but want a second new pair to alternate.

ANNE, some people are able to train without a plan and some of us (like ME) need more structure. I like someone telling me exactly what I have to do for the day. I used to be very rigid following the plans but now I do change things up a bit; right now I'm running more than it calls for just to keep up my longer base running. 

Went to the park this morning and got a nice 5 mile run in. Haven't run there since last fall so it was a nice change.

Lisa