HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH! (Page 7)

BUMP!

I thought this is as good a time as any to bring this back to the top since so many of us are starting on a training plan and probably got HRMs for Christmas.  I've got a bike LT test in my very near future and a run test when I get enough mileage back under my legs after a stress fracture. 

Thanks again to Mike Ricci for providing a ton of expert advice for FREE!

Tom

Mike, I like the 220 method, but in a reverse sort of way, my max heart rate is about 188. If I use the 220 method, my near fifty year old body is really like a 32 year olds.....

Ok, I've been convinced that HR zone training is the way to go and I've had the VO2 test, so I know my zones.  But, I'm still confused on when to start adding in other training (speed, intervals, etc) to the base building.  When I do anything but pedal/run at a slow even pace, I jump out of zone 2.  My A race for the spring/early summer is a 1/2 IM in June.  So, my specific questions:

1.  Is it adviseable to do zone 4 training once a week or not at all until closer to the race?  I've gotten different opinions on this.

2.  Should I do speed work now, later or not at all?  If so, then what zone do you do speed work in?

3.  For zone 4 training, do you warm up and then train for as long as you can or have time for in zone 4 or do you do intervals into zone 4?

4.  How do HR zones for swimming compare to running/cycling?

5.  Why are stop signs so confusing to a large segment of the populatioin?

I know some of this has been asked before and I've read through the thread but I'm still confused.

Ernie

This will answer most of your questions:

Here is something I wrote about LSD last year. The most bang for your buck is in the High Z2 range - but you have to be able to have the 'repeatability factor' with all of this. Basically, you can train as hard as you want, as long as you can back it up! If you can't back it up the next day, you trained too hard.
http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/lsd.htm

Recently, I had the chance to listen to Dr. Tudor Bompa speak at the US Olympic Training Center at the USAT Level III Coaching Clinic -Dr Bompa is known as the Father of Periodzation and it is from his work with the the Russians that Joe Friel recreated the Periodization model that we see in the TTB. What Dr Bompa said about aerobic/anaerobic is this:

200m run: 29% aerobic, 71% anaerobic

400m run: 43% aerobic, 57% anaerobic

800m run: 66% aerobic, 34% anaerobic

1500m run: 84% aerobic, 16% anaerobic

So, Dr Bompa is saying that anything over ~600m is 'mostly' aerobic.

To work on speed - and I think you should do this 50 weeks a year - you should do pick-ups 1x per week on your runs, spin ups on the bike, and fast 25s in the pool. A good strong aerobic base is important to run faster as you make the tendons and ligaments stronger to be able to sustain the stresses of anaerobic work that comes later on, and it creates more pathways for your body to carry O2 to your muscles and to carry the waste away. Speedwork like I described above, keeps those fast firing neurons firing all the time  as the pathways stay in use. Once you are done with base, you work on strength - such as hill work and then you move into track strength and race pace speed as you get closer to your A race. Endurance, Strength, Race Speed - the three components to going faster - and there you have it. The 'secret' to training unvielded right before your eyes ;-)

Train hard (and smart), recover, repeat. :-)

You asked:
1.  Is it adviseable to do zone 4 training once a week or not at all until closer to the race?  I've gotten different opinions on this.
>>>See above

2.  Should I do speed work now, later or not at all?  If so, then what zone do you do speed work in?
>>see above

3.  For zone 4 training, do you warm up and then train for as long as you can or have time for in zone 4 or do you do intervals into zone 4?
>>>See above

4.  How do HR zones for swimming compare to running/cycling?
>>>I swim by pace no HR for swimming - pointless

5.  Why are stop signs so confusing to a large segment of the populatioin?
>>>b/c there are a lot of dumb people out there

>>>So you have a training plan or are you FBTSOYP (flying by the seat of your pants)? A plan would answer many of these questions.

I know some of this has been asked before and I've read through the thread but I'm still confused.

Ernie

 Hi Greg:

That would be me that wrote that, not Ernie. I haven't ever done a set in the pool or a race over 18 years where I wondered what my HR is. I use my RPE and test sets in the pool to determine effort in a race. How do you track HR during a race with a HRM? Even if I could see my HR on the inside of my goggle or something, if I were in a good group drafting, I wouldn't back b/c my HR was too high.

Mike wrote swim by pace no HR monitor, not me.  So, I'm not sure of the reasoning but then again I've never seen any info that says to swim by HR.  I was curious as to the reason for that.

Ernie

I don't have  a plan worked out to the day for the whole period until the race.  I have targets by week and then I plan out each week, the week before.  With kids and work, I'm not always sure what days I'm going to be able to work out.  So, I shoot for 3 x 3 on the tri events and work in weights and pilates as I have time.  After your response, I think what I'll do for the next two months is shoot for 2 zone 2 workouts and 1 speed or zone 4 workout.  Then for distance/intensity, I'll work up for 3 weeks and then cut back on the 4th week.  Then go through the cycle again.

Thanks for the input and help Mike

Ernie

My former coach initially had me using an HRM for swimming, but only to establish a recovery heart rate between sets. So instead of using an arbitrary time I would wait until my HR went back down to a predesignated number.

Now I swim with a timed break and force myself to go whether my lungs are on fire or not. It's making me a stronger swimmer. Seems like if I practice swimming hard I'll swim hard in a race. Last season I spent a good bit of time catching my breath because I was accustomed to having leisurely breaks between sets in the pool. So I save my HRM for running. I pace my swim totally by RPE.

I started a thread about something similar to this months ago........just checked the search engine and could not find. It must have been deleted. It started out with me asking how to keep your HRM strap from sliding down during your pool swims (i.e. everytime I pushed off the wall my heart rate monitor was now around my stomach). The responses ranged from....not pushing off the wall as hard to why are you wearing your HRM in the pool anyway b/c the results will be inaccurate. Some one mentioned that the water compresses your system and therefore your heart rate would be higher than your RPE.........making the results inaccurate.

 I came to the conclusion that you should use RPE during swimming mainly b/c I did not want to deal with the strap issue anymore, but if you wear the HRM everyday in the pool and keep the results and the workout I would think you could come up with some useful data for yourself.

 ****************************************************************

Greg - I understand what you are saying 100%. I think in running this applies, b/c you can take a quick glance at your HR to see if you are pushing hard enough. Personally, I use the 'puke method': If I am close to puking, I am pretty much at my threshold.

In the pool, if you take a look at the pace clock, this would serve the same purpose - b/c it's very hard to look at your HR when swimming hard, at least without compromising your turns or streamline pushoffs. As a beginner, one should be focusing on technique in the water over pushing themselves to see how fast they are going. If I have two swimmers and one soley works on how hard they can push themselves with regard to HR, and the other works on improving technique, well I have see this thousands of times, and I can tell you that the technique focused person will improve faster 9/10 times.

Another way to test in the pool would be to do a series of swim efforts from 1,000 yards all the way down to an all out 100, 50 and 25. This way you  would know your endurance zones, and your  'all out' zones - and this will allow anyone from an experienced swimmer all the way down to a beginner know how hard are pushing it by glancing at the pace clock.

Mike