Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - Closed Until Next Season (Page 7)

not to belabor my T1/T2 issues, but thinking about it more, I think part of it is I'm afraid of forgetting something, like I'm so paranoid of forgetting to buckle my chin strap before I unrack bike I go through a mental checklist, like "Cycling shoes on and not running shoes? check. Sunglasses on? check. Helmet buckled? check? you're sure this is *your* bike and not someone else's? yup, that's my number, check! Okay, I guess it's time to go now, alright, let's get to it! Yup, everything's a-ok, you can leave now! Did you hear me? Okay, i'm going, i'm going!" Seriously, that's pretty much what it's like in my head. It's like I forget the clock is running or something. Every time.

Edited by johnmoran 2013-07-29 10:32 PM

John that's hilarious. I think you and I are very similar in the mental games department. I'll post more tomorrow regarding my transitions.

Tomorrow is my first day back to work since 7/19...and it's going to be a mess and not sure how much I'll be posting for a bit. Keeping on my training schedule while on vacation has been tough.

I had these grand visions of these amazing long uninterrupted intense workouts while off work... But then reality happened and I realized I have 4 little kids and we were on the go constantly. I missed a few workouts and my diet was pure garbage. I'm looking forward to getting back into the routine and it starts up again Tues morning with 85 minutes of the sufferfest.

For the most part a pretty smooth transition. Bravo to all you guys for not having a bunch of junk in your transition area. I always set up and am confused to no end how people have so much stuff in their T1 and T2 areas. "What are you doing with all that" I wonder to myself.

Among the tips above (and this hopefully addresses John's and David's checklist compulsion) find a chant or something for your t1 and t2 practice. Say it in a whisper to yourself if you need to. It's automatically running in my head now that I barely even think about it, but for several years coming into t1 I'd get to the bike set up similarly to yours and I say to myself "Glasses on, helmet on, grab the bike, go!" I have 3 things to accomplish in t1 since the goggles and swim cap will already be off and tossed aside I don't include them in my chant. Needing to get the wetsuit off is also obvious to me (a note on this in a minute) so I don't include it in my chant.

T2 goes similarly "Rack the bike, helmet off, shoes on, grab your stuff and go!" It used to just be grab your belt, but again I've added some nutrition there so it's "stuff" now. So much like John I am running through a checklist during my transitions, but I also practice this transition rhythm during my training weeks, the day before the race mentally and the morning of the race after I set up my transition zone mentally. I've practiced the t1 and t2 for a specific race 2-3 times mentally while I'm physically in position before I ever do it so I know I've got it down and I'm not missing anything in my transition zone.


A note on wetsuits. If you have trouble getting your wetsuit off your legs (I certainly did) cut it at the mid-calf line. You should be able to pull your leg up hard and come out of the wetsuit every time without struggling. You'll gain 10-20 seconds on a guy who is screwing around with his wetsuit when you aren't. If you can justify hanging onto 10-20 seconds then I want to see what kind of training plan you have to sacrifice 3 seconds per mile in free speed cause it's just a have to do.

A note on nutrition Although you guys didn't mention where you are possibly stashing your GU or gels (I use accel gel because of the protein content, but GU has become the word for energy gels like Kleenex is for toilet tissues). For a race I will use 4, or 5 if I take one afterwards for recovery. 1 pre race, 45 minutes before the start right before I begin my warmup. 1 within the first 5 minutes of the bike, 1 halfway through the bike and the 4th is in my t2 kit. This one is a special packet as I take a 12 ounce gatorade bottle with about 3 ounces of liquid in it (usually G2) and I pre-mix the accel gel in. I started doing this after last year at Nationals I took a gel on the run and despite accel gel being much more liquid than GU packets I was still gagging on it because of dehydration. Problem solved this way.

My 2 packets are actually taped to my bike with electrical tape by their tabs. They are pre torn about 1/3 of the way so when I pick them up they're already open. In case you don't want to litter I also just tried this out in Omaha and put a empty water bottle on the downtube of my bike. It had no lid on it so I used it as a mini trash can and no litter was left on the course.



That's enough from me for now, maybe I should do a transition video too. There's several good ones out there currently, but I might as well I suppose. It's going to be a fun little two weeks cramming projects in post Hy-vee, ha.

great info. I'm hot in the middle of several projects and trying to get caught up...I shouldnot be reading and posting....

quick question: does everyone bike without socks?

how about running without socks?

I've always put my socks on in T1 and use a 5 Gallon bucket turned upside down to sit on while I do this...probably wasting time there.

Haven't gotten the nerve to run without socks yet as I'm paranoid about blisters.

I had a battle with a girl in Omaha...I dropped her in the last mile on the bike but she came out of T2 ahead of me so I had to run her down. This is when I realized I need to spend some time in transitions.

No socks for bike or run. I train that way too, except for my long runs, in which I will wear socks because I get a hot spot sometimes after about 5 miles running. I have baby soft girl skin too, not rough manly skin, so if I can go without socks, anyone can! :-)

Good info Jesse.

A couple of things:

I think if I put my left foot on top of my shoe and just swung my leg over I would fall over. I usually mount by straddling the bike before I put my feet on the pedals. However I could have my shoes on the bike and held by a rubber band, then straddle the bike, put my left foot on top of my shoe and push off, then slip the shoes on while moving. I feel I can do that without too much problem and should save time over my current way. I'll start practicing it.

I usually run with the bike on my right side holding onto the neck/stem area. I have a road bike with clip-on aero-bars so there is a nice area to grab there. I do this with one hand and run along beside, so I don't think holding it by the seat will really gain anything. I'll post a picture if I can figure out how.

Great idea on racking the bike back in by the handlebars. I have been swinging the bike around and it never even occurred to me to just drop it in there front first.

Regarding nutrition: I have done mostly sprints and take a GU about 15 minutes before start time and then that is all except a little water on the bike. The one Olympic I did, I carried 2 additional gels in one of those small bags that attaches to your top tube. I took one halfway through the bike and the other near the end of the bike. I may try the tape thing instead of the bag next time. I've also thought about mixing a gel with a small amount of liquid and having it in a second water bottle. Haven't tried a gel this way yet.













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Yup, me too- i.e. falling over since I straddle first too. I actually tried starting with shoes on bike in practice. I went out to an empty parking lot and practiced for close to an hour. It was an exercise in comedy! I have no idea why it was so hard for me, but it was. I fell over twice. Once trying to start while rolling and another time my foot slipped off shoe, shoe turned down, heel of shoe hit pavement and dragged to a stop- it was like slamming on the brakes- over I went. Not fun. I guess I should try again on grass, but I thought "Man, if I have such a hard time with this alone, imagine what it would be like at the mount line with 20 people around me". I had watched videos on how to do this a number of times before going out too. Looks easier than it is, at least for me. I had better luck dismounting taking feet out of shoes before my imaginary dismount line, but I haven't done it in a race yet.

I'm probably one of those guys that Jesse is talking about with all the "stuff". Here's what I have:

A 5 gallon bucket (I put my transition gear in here from the car to the site)
My bike shoes
Running shoes
Socks (I also take an extra pair of socks in a plastic baggy that I put under my bucket, in case of a hard rain I thought I'd prefer dry socks to pull on)
Race belt (one GU, and a small baggy with a Lava Salt stuffed in the belt "holster' thingy)
Two Gu's taped to my top tube with electrical tape (just like Jesse)
A towel laid flat
Sunglasses
Helmet

I lay my towel flat to the front/right of my front tire. I put my bike shoes to the right of the towel with a sock lying flat across each shoes and my running shoes on the left side with my race belt lying across the top. I put my bucket directly in front and plop down on it to wipe my feet mostly dry and put my socks and shoes on.

I place my helmet upside down on my aero bars and my sunglasses lense first in the helmet. I gab the sunglasses, put them on and them attach the helment to my head. I run with my bike saddle in my right hand and have learned to "steer" it by just leaning it in the direction I want it to go.

I think if I follow the suggestions here and ditch the socks and rubber band my shoes to my pedals I could possibly cut my transition time in half.

I got a kick out of watching the Olympians in transition...it was amazing how seamless and fast it was for them.

Chris
It's a practice thing really. My personal suggestion would be to start working on this over the winter on the trainer. When you get on and off the bike have your shoes already attached so it's the same as T1 and T2. You get the added advantage of the bike being stationary while you start to work out the mechanics of it and build some of the muscle motor skills required to do it. After a whole winter of on and off like that I'll put bets on it being easier to start practicing the mount like I do it. I'm not particularly glamorous when I do it and sometimes I feel a little awkward myself, but I also need to continue improving my bike handling skills as well so its just a developmental thing I'd imagine.

Personally I think the harder trick to learn is dismounting for most people. Swinging your leg back over while on the bike. Left foot still on top of the shoe as you're "gliding" in on the bike and then throwing your right leg out to dismount and begin running all in one fluid motion. I practice my dismounts this way off the trainer for all my bricks and occasionally during the winter training rides. Obviously easier to begin learning the motions when the bike is stationary as mentioned before.

As far as GU is concerned here's your tip to keep in mind. On average you're only going to digest about 200-250 calories an hour while racing. It will obviously depend on your race time when you take your gels, but space them out accordingly and logistically to both time and transitions between sports.

David
No socks for racing personally. I do train in socks while running, a variety of brands but my nicer pairs of socks are Smartwool (expensive, albeit quality. I got them at a discount for a while working at a local shoe store that shall not be named). I'm sure swiftwick and some other manufacturers make similar quality stuff. I prefer the thinner version for running most days. Smartwool labels these the PhD Ultra Light Running Sock.

I train in the Asics Excel-33, weighs in about the same as the Hoka around 9.5 ounces. Admittedly they're stiff for the first 3 runs (no matter the length it seems), but they are meant to be very flexible and are part of Asics "minimal" line. After those initial runs they seem to be exactly what I want in terms of flexibility. The golden rule with shoes is that they should be comfortable from the get go, but I have actually made a small exception for these because I know what they are. They really aren't minimal at all in my opinion, but they work great for me now.

I race in the Asics Piranha SP3 (no longer available). Weighing in at 3.4 ounces you gotta make sure you run correctly in these or they'll beat you up after you've used them a while. I thought I was going to need to replace them this year, but my improved running form actually has made me think they are soft again. There's nothing to racing flats so it can sometimes be a tough judge on when to replace.

I've also raced in this Saucony racing flat I can't recall the name of. It had drains in the mid/outsole of the shoe which is a good idea in theory, but you also got rocks caught in the holes. All in all it was probably one if not the most comfortable shoe I've ever worn. I couldn't believe the difference switching from the GT-2100 series Asics shoes into that thing. That's when I knew I didn't need the medial posting and flexibility was my friend.

The guys and gals in the Olympics have to transition like pros, literally, because the difference in places can be milliseconds. I don't know if any of you were there at Hyvee in 2010 for the Elite Cup (World Cup at the time) race. It came down to the wire with 6 guys sprinting 100 meters at the end for the $200,000 win when Simon Whitfield came away with it. That level of competition demands nothing less than perfection. It was one hell of a finish to watch I'll tell you that. And of course my favorite female athlete, Emma Snowswill, came away with her second win at Hyvee that day with a come from behind blistering run in the 33's I believe... Anyway, enough reminiscing.


A note on shoes For what it's worth I've spent 2 years (blech) fitting people for shoes including very fit runners, very out of shape trying to be runners, people with AFO's, diabetes(this does matter), crazy looking feet, etc. If you want my opinion on a given shoe and who it might be good for feel free to ask. Easier to make a judge in person to be able to see shoe shape and other stuff or with some specs, but I'll throw my two bits in for what it's worth anyway.

Great idea about practicing on the trainer (when I get one). Again something I would not probably thought of doing.
As far as dismounting, I am halfway there. I have my feet out and top of my shoes, but I am still coming to a complete stop straddling the bike, then swinging the leg over and starting to move. So now I realize I have another component to add in.
Excellent advice as always Jesse. Thanks!

No problem on the advice that's what I'm here for. Plus you guys get to essentially be my guinea pigs and help me hone my internet coaching skills and thought processes without too much irritation coming my way if I throw off something a little out there, ha.


Transitions are a big deal that I think a lot of newer triathletes forget about. But one way to look at it is what kind of fitness is it going to take for you to drop 40 seconds on the run? It's free fitness if you improve technique via transitions.

As a good example, the guy finishing second after me in my age group in Omaha took 2:12 in T1 (to my recollection, give or take a few seconds). I spent 40.1 seconds in T1. Assuming he wants to exit T1 the same time as me, he has to swim 6 seconds per 100 meters faster than me. In reverse order, my faster T1 gave me a 6 second per hundred meter lead on him. I work out for an entire year to make 6 seconds per hundred happen so that's a stupid easy gimme in T1.


You can translate that into bike or run times too. I think the situation becomes way more real when you put it into time you need to shave off your other disciplines or can have freely to make it hit home how much free speed or wasted time you have on your hands.

Jesse, since you offered advice regarding shoes....

I have been tearing up shoes left and right. I wear Brooks Glycerin 10's. I have a problem where I quickly grind down the outside of the midsole of my right shoe. I've been to two major running shoe stores here and have had my gait evaluated and I'm pretty confident that these shoes are good for me.

I've been told that I just am going to wear them out quickly, unless I can fix my gait which seems to be fairly difficult. (some day I'll get around to posting a video of me running).

Here's 2 pictures of my shoes (right and left and you can see the one that is ground down). These shoes have 174 miles on them.
http://db.tt/bn0cSjSp
http://db.tt/iS1otdmK

The left shoe pic is just to show the relative wear on the other shoe.

I'm considering moving to Brooks PureFlow2 shoes for training and racing. Thinking of getting some in the next couple of weeks and breaking them in for my next event on 9/8. My thinking is that they will be a) much lighter b) I don't need the extra heel cushion as I don't strike with that part of the shoes, at all. Thoughts?

Also, I'm planning to run the next tri without socks. I ran yesterday about 1.5M sockless before putting a pair on for the remainder of the training session. I had no issues. Would you recommend working my way up to 5-6 miles without socks in training? Nothing new on race day....

Holy over-pronation Batman. That's the interior part of the forefoot, correct? Where you're coming off your big toe? I'll have to take some photos of the wear pattern on my shoes to show you what it looks like when you run with a good mid-forefoot strike cause it's a funny looking pattern compared to most people. I'm really surprised nobody has tried to suggest a stability shoe for you with that kind of eaten up midsole. Not that I necessarily think that's the only/best solution, but typically in a shoe store you'll get the store associate that will say "Stablity shoe, big foam block posting, next." for that kind of thing, especially at Gribbles.

First thought on looking at the specs of the shoes is that you're going to destroy the pureflows. Possibly a good race day shoe for you if you want to dedicate a shoe for that, but personally I don't see a huge difference between the two in terms of functionality unless you're really just drawn to the PureFlows for the smaller heel to toe drop. Which will by the way make you switch your gait to some degree at least until you start fatiguing and then you may switch back to how you normally run.

Any time you have a "lightweight" shoe that means there is some kind of air/nitrogen infused/puffed up foam on the inside and I mean this in the most pragmatic way possible, but you're a bigger guy David so your weight will have an impact on that fluffed up foam and smash it down faster than say an Olympic level Kenyan who is only a buck 10 on a heavy day. No offense meant by the comment, simply a statement of observation and applied physics. Practically it means you're going to change your shoes even faster without gait changes.

Functionally between the two we're talking only a couple ounces so I don't think weight is a great consideration here (you'll notice two ounces possibly, but I don't know if its worth switching if the Glycerin is working for you). My shoe motto is "If it's not broke, don't fix it." We of course can argue that your gait is slightly broke I suppose, but despite what the manufacturer's will tell you, shoes are not the instant solution (although they can aid the progress you make in making corrections). Until you're down to nitty gritty really working on getting your gait in line I don't know that a shoe change would be in order. This is my advice simply from a focus standpoint. New shoes, new attitude, new running style. Instead of new shoes, old running style and then later trying to change over. Just a mindset thing.

With that in mind I'd say try changing over to the new shoes if you so choose at the start of Base 1 after all your races are over for the season and then use that time to really rebuild so you're focus isn't elsewhere (getting ready to race, nerves, etc.). This gives you a second advantage in regards to physical adaptation. During base phase for most people it's a lot of aerobic (zone 1, zone 2) mileage just building upwards. Since you don't have to worry about burning up the track and keeping good posture/position/gait all in line and just need to work on a slower pace initially it gives you the chance to get good form without heavy fatigue and then build up your endurance in that form at the same time.

That's my two bits for now, let me know any other thoughts you had on why you want to change and maybe I'll have a bit more insight.


As for racing sockless. Nothing new on race day... a good typical adage, but I take issue with anything that's a blanket statement. Do what you're comfortable with. It probably won't hurt to try working up to that distance without socks. You'll probably get some hot spots and rubbing since most shoes aren't made with bare feet in mind. This will give you a good idea where you need to apply body glide. Also if you don't have body glide you can get some from Dick's, Sports Authority (I think) or the New Balance in OP. If you go to the NB to pick up the body glide talk to Walter (tell him I sent you) about your shoe questions. He'll probably reflect a lot of what I've said, but may have some other opinions too. Additionally he doesn't care one way or another whether you wear NB or another brand's shoes because he's open to the fact that lots of companies make good shoes despite where he currently works.

Anyway enough yammering. Time for a run before it gets too muggy today.

Jesse - good feedback.

The only note that I would make is that the funky wear pattern is on the EXTERIOR of the forefoot. So I severely Under-pronate...or supinate. What I've learned from my research is that this is a less common occurrence than over over-pronation and so most of the time a neutral shoe is fitted, versus a stability shoe.

I have a few thoughts on moving to the Pureflows.

#1 is purely superficial: they are lighter, and since I *want* to be fast I will run faster in these. Right? I figure they'll take at least a good minute off my mile time. (ha ha).

#2 cushion: The Glycerin's are nice and cushiony. Not quite like John's Hokas, but as you correctly noted...I'm a bigger guy and so this works well for me. From what I have 'heard' is that the Pureflow has the same mid-sole cushioning as the Glycerin, but is far more minimal in the heel and the rest of the shoe. My thinking is that while I am getting the benefit of the Glycerin's cushion, I'm trashing these things so quickly that I'm not really breaking the shoe down other than grinding down the exterior of the right shoe. (the shoes basically look new except for that). I guess I'm thinking that even though I'm crushing these things much more than the little Kenyan, I'm still not getting enough mileage on them to wear them out. Maybe, however, the added weight I carry would make a difference on every run though, so maybe I'd see some discomfort that way.

#3 gait: someone at UltraMax actually suggest that these *may* actually help with my gait a bit. First of all, the PureFlows are about $30 less expensive, so they don't have a lot of incentive to push a cheaper shoe (she wasn't pushing anyhow, just sort of hypothesizing). Her thinking was that since I'm landing on the outside of the foot first and rolling onto the big toe last, that possibly the lower drop would help my land in the middle more quickly, thus decreasing the amount of supination I have. It's a stretch, but it may work.

Ultimately, what you say makes sense in that it may be more reasonable to wait until the winter when I can spend my time focusing on adjusting the gait and go from there.

Thanks for the tip on going sockless. I've got some body glide and will lube up. I've got a few big brick workouts scheduled prior to my last race so I'll do those sockless and go from there.

You know I looked and looked at your pictures and just from the curvature of the shoe it looks like the inside. I was looking at the little plastic piece on the underside of the shoe which is typically on the inside of most neutral shoes or in the center and just couldn't make up my mind. I asked a second opinion of my girlfriend on which side of the shoe she thought it was and she also suggested it was the inside.

I think I'd like to see you run personally before I make any more suggestions... To be frank if you watch me run I do have a slight touchdown in the exact same area you're having blown out on with your right foot. Photos for reference from Omaha below.

Now just because I'm doing something doesn't make it right, but it is a very common occurrence if you go watch the fast heats of a 5k at a track meet pretty much all the guys in the front will land this way. Or if you watch any barefoot running video it will happen there as well. I'll have to ponder a bit the mechanics going on to make you so lopsided, but at least from an initial feel I think you may be on the right track gait wise. One of my former co-workers always joked with me because I used to wear the GT-2150's (and previous models) from Asics which is a stablity shoe before switching my form and running shoe to the excel-33 that by my wear pattern she would slap me in a motion control shoe without blinking. Which isn't entirely truthful, but it goes to show that context and philosophy are very important in fitting shoes.

I'd say make it a goal to get your video shot at the beginning or before your base season starts for next year so we can look at it and see what's going on.


I looked up the specs again and I was incorrect. Your pureflow 2 comes in around 8.8 ounces and the glycerin 12.2 (probably for a US size 10) so you'll notice a big jump there. Also worth noting is the forefoot stack heights of the shoes. The glycerin has a forefoot stack height of 28mm whereas the pureflow 2 is only 18mm. Had to dig a little to find that info since Brooks doesn't publish it directly. In practical terms you have less cushioning in the forefoot by 10mm which in my opinion is a bunch. Doesn't mean the shoe will be bad for you, but it is worth noting.

I wish I could figure out a way to have a blog or informational site to tear apart shoe specs, designs, etc. and I mean literally tear a shoe to pieces to dig out components. I'd have too much fun with that, but alas companies are so secretive about what they're doing nowadays they rarely even want stack heights published.







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Oh, as an additional note my shoes will typically "look" great even though I've put 300+ miles on them. The wear pattern isn't even too bad on them, but the midsole (all the cushioning and structure) is trashed for running at that point. I move them down to my casual kick around shoes because they are still OK for that, but don't provide the kind of cushioning for running I prefer.

So looks don't dictate when I change shoes as much as mileage and feel do for me at least, but it all has to be weighed with cost too I definitely know that.

Just wanted to post in possibly one last time before Nationals. I'll be leaving town Wednesday morning, but most of tomorrow will be spent in final preparations for heading out/packing/etc. I'll have a laptop with me (well, not my laptop, but whatever), however I don't know how often I'll be on it while I'm in Milwaukee.

Hope training is going well for everyone. If I don't answer questions until next week no need to wonder where I went I'm just off racing. Hopefully this time I'll actually get a blog post/race review written afterwards, ha.

Cheers.

good luck at your race!

Good Luck at Nationals!

I hope you do well Jesse and meet your objectives!

If you're still looking for a KK trainer-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KINETIC-Bicycle-Indoor-Trainer-Cycle-Ops-Ku...

Don't know anything about it besides what's posted, but it's supposedly unused, was used to display bikes, and it's $239 and free shipping. I get email alerts for all KK trainers on ebay and this is the best price I've seen in a awhile, especially for unused.

Thanks for the link, John.
I'll check it out.