GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 77)

ANNE -

YES! I heartily recommend Shimano WH-R500. The came "stock" on my Cervelo P2C, and in my humble opinion they are just about as good as my Hed race wheels. GREAT wheels! However.....
-- Because they were part of the package, i don't know their cost (but was i told $400/pair?).
-- Mine are 700, so i don't know if they come in 650.

I've had luck in the past with Ritchey, which I believe were part of my first Cervelo. Those also stood the test of time, taking a beating in the process.

With training wheels, I think aiming for the middle would work. I'd never consider top-of-the-line, and I ALWAYS avoid the lowest-priced anything. But this is worth knowing more about -- just how good do training wheels need to be?

MANDY -

Yup! You just said that -- you want at least two 20-milers.

I have photoed this page and it is now on YouTube. I have submitted it as an op-ed piece in the New York Times. I am currently negotiating with Entertainment Tonight to gove it air-time later this week, and Jay Leno may bring it to the nation's attention as soon as tomorrow evening. Moreover, it is now lodged comfortably between health care and joblessness as a concern on Capitol Hill. Enjoy your fame!!

Seriously, though, I am with you 100% in wanting more than just one run at/over 20 miles, and if you feel that way strongly, then it might be worth the roll of the dice to try to get them in there. I only put that forth to you yesterday to give you hope that a (probably decent) marathon could be run on relatively small mileage.

And for someobne who's been around 26.2 several times, I definitely feel that minimal mileage can work. The big horror possibility of small mileage awaits first-timers, but for veterans like yourself you know what your body will be getting at when it starts to whine and moan and balk and stall from about mile 16 until the end.

DIANE -

If it makes you feel any better, I don't think sciatica has any special preference for people who are, um, "seasoned". So, don't feel bad about it being a by-product of aging -- all it takes is pressure on that bad-boy sciatic nerve.

As for the 5km, take heart that there are a lot of them around, so if you miss the one on the 2oth, just wait a bit and another will come along. (They're kind of like rush-hour subways in NYC.) If you can do it or even contemplate doing it, then for the reason you say - to see what it is like - it might be worth giving it a shot. And maybe, too, having your trainer helping you work through this will aloow it to resolve itself more quickly than at other previous episodes.

Wonderful of you to volunteer for the sprint on the 14th! Not only is it a valuable service to provide, but it will give you all sorts of insights into what happens at these things. I cna hardly wait to hear your report and read your questions!

PLEASE let me know how the ride and swim went.

Steve-

Thanks!  You definitely made me feel better about missing some bigger runs, and knowing that with less mileage, I can definitely still do a decent 26.2.  I was a little freaked because I just severely under trained for the Goofy Challenge Debacle and just don't want to repeat that mess. 

I think I am going to see how I feel as far as training - if I am still hurting, I will do one 20 miler - or maybe bag the marathon if need be . 

I did 6 miles today, and the calf started out as an attention-getter (so I decided to try 3 instead), by mile 3 it was a nuisance (so I kept going), and by the end, I knew it was there, but it didn't really bother me.  I iced it and sticked it - I know it is there, but it isn't as bad as it was.  I think that I am going to do 10 as you suggested for a long run this week though. 

I have an appt with a PT next week to take a look, BTW.

My real goal is Timberman, so I don't want to screw that up.  I might need to re-arrange my plans if this keeps bugging.

Steve,
No worries, and thanks for the insights.  It does make some sense.  I start that run with a pretty steep incline, it flattens briefly and then a short but semi-steep decline.  With the legs fatigued, I could very well have been over striding off the bike, and have that exasperated on that downhill section.  I'll need to really think about the stride on the next bricks.  It's amazing how when your legs are tired, you lose your feel for that stuff.  Everyone that sees me run (shoe guys, VO2 guy, friends on group runs) always comment that I have a very compact stride which I take as a good thing - but those are always on fresh legs.  I'm sure the form is starting off from a much worse starting point after the long rides.

Along those lines, in the swim today, after about 45 minutes, I swear I couldn't feel my arms anymore.  LOL.  It wasn't that they were tired exactly - the shoulders and back weren't burning at all - I just forgot about moving them.  It kind of snuck up on me and after a while I realized that they were moving, but they were on autopilot.  I was thinking, "whoa!  no arms.  ok then, recover, reach, catch, pull, extend" and actually found my stroke lengthening again.  I never experienced that feeling of not really being in any distress, but having the entire stroke breaking down - I guess out of boredom.  It makes me think that I should back off the longer pulls and go back to more structured sessions of multiple 300-500m efforts, some shorter 100m "tempo" swims (and I use that term loosely when it comes to my swim pace).  Any thoughts on whether at this point I should be doing more or less of the long-pull sessions?

MANDY -

I normally don't think that I have a good gut, but it turns out that I havce a pretty high tolerance for most sports nutrition products. HOWEVER, I have to draw the line at any of the "gummilicious" ones, which just work to sickatate me. I have never enjoyed gummy bears or gummy worms (too cloyingly sweet?), and things like Clif Blocks make me want to gag myself with a pitchfork. YECHH! But that's me, and thousands love them including one of the women in my other group who made them the staple of her race-day nutrition.

So when you nmention turning into a "bowl of Clif Shot Block jello", I begin to almost feel nauseous. It's about the same as when I harken back to my abject inability to fly in small single-engine fixed-wing planes. It's been about 34 years since I last threw up in one, but even now I can still conjure up the smell of fuel and the pilot's cigarettes, and begin to feel that horrific sensation of impending air-sickness. For the second time today ---- O.....M.....G.....!

And really and truly -- you didn't run for a year and a half after it? Injury, or just disinterest, or firmly whupped into submission? (Maybe a bit of all three?)

STEVE -

Ha! It's funny that you mention the long pulls, because during mine today in the 50meter pool I was thinking about your long pull session from last week. Great minds think alike, eh?

I'm maybe the wrong one to ask that question, however, as I'm the guy who deliberately minimizes his kick during any race swim at oly and beyond. So, it is very easy for me to rationalize doing long pull sets, as I need to focus on developing swim-enhancing upper-body strength and endurance. So, using the pull buoy makes me over-reliant on traps, lats, pecs, triceps, and the whole shoulder infrastructure -- which is just what I will be relying upon on race day.

That said, if you suspect that youtr body is rebelling some against the longer stuff, by all means mix it up some over the next week or so. What you mention about more structured stuff and temp efforts sounds great to me, and probably after just one or two shorter and/or faster sessions, you'll be ready for the long pull workouts.

As for the shin and the run, well, maybe you're doing this already.....
On your bricks, very deliberately start out with short, compact strides. If you can get to a cadence of 90 on your good runs, aim for that from the moment you begin the brick run. And maybe even over-emphasize the short stride, just to make sure it is imprinted early on. I did that on each of my last two HIM, and I think it really helped to settle me down right from the first few yards of the 13.1 miles.

SHAUN -

Wow! Two more excellent runs for the books, with those on Thursday and Sunday! And yes, work hard to stay within that 10% range. There's no need to stray from it now, and the distances you are currently knocking off are obviously working well for you.

4:00/200m, or 2:00/100m -- that's a very good starting point! In fact that's very close to what I was when I began my first season, and I stayed there for a couple of months and then enkoyed a nice "bump" into faster territory. It turns out, however, that after a few bumps I settled into a seeming lifetime at around 1:45/100m -- but that's me, and there's every chance that you will continue to "bump" your way, over time, down into the 1:30s/100m.

I'd say your prognosis is very promising! Glub, GLUB!

SHAUN again -

I was very surprised, driving around Ottawa yesterday and today, how seamlessly people seem to have returned to their normal ways. I have literally not seen a single Team Canada hockey jersey, which is kind of conspicuous in its absence after the abundance of them over the weekend. There are a few Cnada touques and the odd Canada jacket, and still some of the signature red mittens, but mostly people are dressed "normal".

Of course, the newspapers are still covering the olympics as if they were still happening, but I guess that's to be expected.

Oh I remember the rabbit ears growing up!

Three Stooges - they still run that on the weekends on what used to be Channel 56 (now known as "The WB"). Husband loves it.

Thanks Steve.  Just to clarify, I don't actually use a pull buoy - I should be saying "long sets".  I'm the same way though, in the wetsuit, I literally drag the legs, only kicking as necessary for seaweed, sharks and those with no drafting etiquette who repeatedly swim into my feet!  (Serves them right for drafting off the slow guy!)  I'm nervous about using a pull buoy in the pool though, as I'm concerned about shoulder injuries (that's why I won't use those hand paddles).  But if you find them helpful in building some additional upper body strength, I'll pick one up at the store and slowly add it to the mix.  Probably won't help much with IMSG, but with Vineman in July, it could definitely be of benefit.

Will definitely work on the cadence!

Thanks.   I will take this information with me.   I forgot to mention they just aren't for training.   I would use them racing as well on those really windy days.   I really get pushed around using the ZIPPS in winds over 15km/hr.   

You and Diane I think were talking about wind.   It has been just crazy around here the past few years.   I used to HATE the wind.  It slowed me down so much and last year I decided it was going to be my friend.        I started to think of it as a training tool and it actually helped make the rides more fun and made me stronger.   It still bugs the heck out of me though when we have a windy race day! 

I am with you on gummy stuff - and small single engine fixed wing planes! Ugh.

Yup, I quit running (and doing much besides biking) for a year and a half - because of well, a bit of all three you mentioned, although I think all that was injured was my pride.  I just was burnt out and wasn't having fun running.  So I biked.  I didn't really start again until my first tri (which I didn't train for as far as running - DOH)  Triathlon gave me running back basically, I started to find that place I loved again. 

Edited by midlifeinsanity 2010-05-24 9:25 PM

Edited by midlifeinsanity 2010-05-24 9:25 PM

STEVEB,

Trying a test run of the new training days (for me) of the HIM program you recommended.   So far I like it.   Nice balance.   It felt so weird yesterday thinking I only had bike/yoga instead of swim/run yoga and seemed to have so much free time to do other things.    I am trying my first Wed swim this morning at 7:15 and can leave for volunteer work right from the pool (taking breakfast with me); but I am at a loss as to what to eat before the swim.   45 min to go and haven't eaten yet (got up at 6:00).   I know I shouldn't train on an empty stomach but might do that today.   Can you give me some ideas of what to eat when I only have 1 hr before swimming.   I don't really want to get up earlier.  

Only volunteer till 1:00 so in the nice weather plan to run then.   There is a beautiful park about 3 minutes away.   I can have a mid morning snack a couple of hours before which should give me enough energy, since my runs aren't that long.   I'm thinking today I should come home and have lunch and maybe run at 3:00.   Am going to attempt 5km.  

Morning, Gang!

Just want to let you know that I may be a bit scattered over the next few days. Lynn's dad died during the night, so there will be some attending to all of that; don't yet know the full extent of commitments, however.

This was no surprise. He'd been ravaged by Alzheimer's for a few years, and on her visit this weekend Lynn found him doing poorly. On Monday we were told that he might die anytime, and her three sibs are down there now. So, that's that.

Anyhow, I will try to stay tuned here -- I mean, I'm terrified that if I don't, there will be 14 pages of postings that I have to catch up on!

So, hold tight for mount/dismount, schedules, and other things I have promised that I would attend to.

As we are having some doors installed today, I'm here for most of it and may be able to do stuff here.....but Lynn'll need the phone line open, so it'll be catch-as-catch-can.

See you soon!

Edited by midlifeinsanity 2010-05-24 9:26 PM

SteveB, sorry to hear about your lose. Glad to hear it was not a surprise. Please extend my condolences to Lynn and the rest of your family.

STEVE:

So sorry to hear about your father in law. I hope you and your family are hanging in there.

Tracey

M -

"But not bad for me."

It sure isn't! And it's good - very good - for anyone who is really just starting out, period. We are all Projects of One, so don't compare your development against anyone else's. And besides -- ALL of us have been at where you are at right now - tentative swims, gentle bikes, cautious runs. Remember this day, this post ------ and check back every six months; you'll nebver cease to be surprised and amazed!

That's a good, comfortable HR to operate at on the bike, especially indoors. Keep track of these, although if you are like me it takes a pretty big effort on the bike to bump up my HR sinificantly. In other words, don't necessarily expect to see major fluctuations as you ride longer or harder.

And three cheers for the 50m without stopping. Woo hoo, indeed!

M -

And as for your other comments.....

Mostly people will not be relieving themselves in the water pre-race, so don't let that color (as it were.....) your opinion about race swims. It really is an isolated happening, and 99% restircted to longer races.

As for the run (you asked!!).......people do indeed do it while running, and then splash with water at aid stations. This is another one I have not done, so I can't give up-close-and-personal insights. ("Thank god for THAT!", M sighs relievedly.) But the word on the streeet is that both genders find it easy to do, just cruising along at race pace!

Sorry for your loss

SteveB,
So sorry.  Losing a parent is difficult - no matter the circumstances  - parents are the ones who love you no matter what
Denise

SteveB,

Well, this makes 4 total as I did another 33 minutes last night with no issues!!

I'm happy with the 2:00/100m for now. Feeling very comfortable in the water at that pace and overall. The one thing I should probably work on is having some sort of 'rest' or 'glide' in my stroke. I seem to just keep the arms going except for a slight pause when I breathe.

Wow, I am surprised at how quickly the memory might be fading. Still a good amount of comments being made around me at work. Probably doesn't help I'm still a proud Canadian and get asked regularly if I am one or not.