Wurkit_Gurl's Group - CLOSED (sssh...we're training) (Page 8)

Re: "larger steps", just be careful that you don't overstride, ie, let your feet land in front of your hips. You want your feet to land directly underneath you. Running long, slow steps often forces you to overstride. That doesn't mean, however, that you can't use your long legs to your advantage. There was recently a thread about cadence/force/stride in Tri Talk - I will see if I can find it. Aside from the 5 pages of bickering between some of the fasties around here, there are many good points made, and I believe, some books referenced. Good running form is incredibly important, since it's such a high-impact activity. Poor running form can screw you up.

Congrats on knocking a minute off of your time, though!

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=152379&start=1

Here is the link to the thread I was talking about. Like I said, aside from the bickering, there is some good advice in here.

well in that case i definately overstride. part of it comes from my cricket side i think, where i'm only urnning distances of 10 meters and bowling, and the bowling technicque requires you to put the left foot ahead. The thing about running as you say is i feel i'm not using my whole leg properly as i've always had a lot more muscle at the top of my legs from cycling etc.

Yup - let me get back to you on that, as I've got a busy evening, but I will follow up tomorrow!

All right to answer your question:

I think I understand what you mean about saying that you don't feel like you're using your entire leg. I find that for ME, overstriding puts a lot of strain in my quads. Anyway...as a general rule, gripping with your quads and hip flexors (ie, relying on them too much) can mess with your full range of motion. For good running form, you want to activate your glutes and hamstrings (actually, this goes for cycling as well, but that's another thread). For a lot of people, this is hard - hamstrings tend to be weaker than quads in a lot of people, since quads are the dominant muscle group. So it's hard to learn how to "use" your hams/glutes.

So learning good running technique will help you learn engage them. Learning good running technique will also teach you to NOT overstride. "Good running technique" is sort of a relative term. There are definitely things that you should NEVER do (like overstride), and general principles that are the same, however it's sort of intricate and what's natural for one person isn't natural for another person. And you never want to force yourself into a new technique or style quickly. However, since you're new at this and probably have not settled into anything concrete yet, it's not a bad time to start trying different things. 

There are several methods out there - I only have experience with one of them. A lot of people have found that the book "Chi Running" is spot-on for them. I've heard mixed reviews about the"Pose" method (also a book). Our tri team's running coaching is slightly aligned with a book called "Evolution Running" by a guy named Ken Mierke - he happens to be local to the area and coaches a local pro triathlete who is good friends with the team's head coach, so she comes and does clinics with us. I'm not plugging this method per se, since I know some people have certain beefs with aspects of it, though you'll find that with just about any book/method/technique out there. However, there are some basic principles in the drills that we do that align themselves with everything else I've read/heard from other athletes, as well as watching really good runners.

Since I'm not a coach, I am hesitant to give you any real instruction in this arena (since I don't know what BT elitists are perusing the Mentor threads and I don't want to incur their wrath). The best thing you can do is either get a coach-type to look at your form, or at the very least someone who ran in high school or college (preferably college). Otherwise, check out some of the books I mentioned, or check out articles on Runnersworld.com.

In general, when you run, as your legs come around in each cycle, you don't want your leg to swing out, but rather, draw your knee up, so that your thigh is parallel to the ground. Your feet should land directly underneath your body, and you should be using your glutes and your hamstrings to push off and back from the ground, in order to go forward. Think about trying to kick your butt. This is a little exaggerated, but as a drill, it's effective.

There is some debate about cadence around here as to what is "optimum" since it sort of varies by each person, but there is such a thing as "too slow". (Cadence is how many times in a minute your feet hit the ground, also called leg turnover) Since it's hard to overstride with a quicker cadence, you may want to try increasing your cadence. Note that this does NOT mean that you are running faster. You can run with a high cadence and not go very fast ("fast" is sort of determined by how much force you apply to the ground in order to push yourself forward). So this might mean that you will have to slow down a little - trying to take smaller, shorter steps will help to keep your feet landing underneath you. Once you've broken that habit, you can work on using your long legs to your advantage, ie, you can learn to take longer strides without overstriding, if that makes sense.

I apologize if this explanation isn't the best. But some of this is hard to describe without actually being able to show you, or watch you do it. If you have any other questions or want something broken down a bit more, please ask.

Congrats on a fantastic swim! Glad you had a good time.

If you ever get a chance to ride a computrainer, do it. A couple of the local bike shops here rent time on them during the winter, and my friends and I will go and "ride" various courses, like sections from IMs, etc. It's a lot better than riding a regular trainer, since there's variation on the resistance. And you can practice shifting a lot more, because it forces you to shift as it gets harder or easier. If I had a computrainer to ride all winter, I'd probably be a stronger cyclist. I always get a better workout on those than I do the regular trainer. Unfortunately, you can get a trainer for as little as $100, whereas a computrainer is about $1500 msrp (though you could hunt for REALLY good deals on Ebay or something). The computrainers I ride don't meansure heart rate or cadence (you can always do that with a heart rate monitor and a bike computer with a cadence sensor), but they do measure power (wattage), which is cool. And of course, mph, etc. And you can "race" the other people who you are riding with

Depends. Biking is one of the things where it's okay to sort of over-train the distance a little. However, the plans are designed to be heavy or light on certain days, certain weeks, etc. So you don't want to do "extra" biking on the day before a larger run day, etc or you can add it, but go easy, don't hammer it out and trash your legs. However, if you are accustomed to riding longer, on a regular basis, you could tweak the plan a little bit. Just make sure that if the plan has a week where it backs off on distance, do so appropriately.

The saying around here is "train your weaknesses and race your strengths". So if you're only planning on training for sprints, and you're a really good cyclist but a crappy runner, for example, I might pick a plan that emphasizes running a bit more.

amkaz - 2009-04-17 10:26 AM

wurkit_gurl - 2009-04-17 8:58 AM

(since I don't know what BT elitists are perusing the Mentor threads and I don't want to incur their wrath).

LOL after reading the thread about running I completely understand that.  I left that thread knowing I probably run wrong so I will read more to figure it out (and thanks for your tips, they make sense)... but I was like WHOA don't trip on your words around these guys!  I am sure they are full of valuable info, but man one wrong step and WHEW!

Yes, I was active for a bit in that thread too, but I know that what I was saying made sense and wasn't completely incorrect or invalid, so I just left it at that. After a point, it's not worth arguing. They just like to bicker about who knows more than who (and who is faster and why, etc). :-P But I posted the link, because if you weed through the bickering, as I said, there's good info there.

Excellent point. Back in the fall, I had to take a hiatus from running due to what I'm certain was just overuse, in training for a marathon. So I took 6 weeks off and slowly got back into running by helping a non-runner friend train for her first 10K, which I was also planning to run. I started her off with run/walk intervals, and since we were only running like 13 minute miles, I HAD to quicken my cadence in order to run that slowly. So this is what I did for several weeks. And now, I'm actually considerably faster than I was BEFORE I was injured. Part of it has to do with all the marathon training I did, which made me stronger. Part of it had to do with getting the shoe insert to even out my leg length thing. But I'm also pretty convinced that being forced to run like that helped my efficiency. I find that focusing on cadence helps me get up hills without getting winded, helps me keep going if I start to get tired, etc.

All right peeps, since the afternoon seems to have made everyone disappear, have a good weekend! I will be MIA again this weekend, as I will be down at my race, without connection to the interwebz

Hey mentees - back from my race. Fun weekend overall, but I did terribly at the race. The race report will be up tomorrow probably, but in brief, my bike sucked, which killed my run. And the run was hot and hilly. I'm pretty disappointed and I really hope the rest of the tri season goes better than this. After my 10-Miler run, I was looking forward to it.

Steph, how did your race go?

Enjoy your vacation!

Morning, mentees. How was everyone's weekend? Anything fun on tap this week, in terms of training?

Just wanted to share something, with regard to open water swimming. I did my first really cold OWS at my race yesterday. I've done OWS many times at this point, with and without a wetsuit. But I think the cold water (62 degrees) messed with me. I felt fine getting out of the water, but when I stopped at my transition spot in T1, I felt dizzy and kinda nauseous and pretty shaky - couldn't get my stuff on and off fast enough. I've heard that the cold water can cause this, esp. if it gets in your ears. So if any of you ever plan to do an early-season race in colder water, get some practice and maybe bring earplugs. But swimming in the water, once I got going wasn't bad at all, actually. The important thing is to get in before the race and swim around, get your face in, etc. so you can get over the initial shock the cold water will have to your body, heart rate, breathing, etc. Once a layer of water gets in your wetsuit, your body will heat it, and it will act as an insulator.