McFuzz's New Athlete Group (CLOSED) (Page 8)

@Joe,

I reread the forum to see your bio because I just couldn't remember everyones bio and I have seen you had some questions that weren't really answered. Because I feel like we are a bit the same (height and weight) and our running times are close to each other, I really watch at your progress and it motivates me a bit to keep going. I really like your weightloss album and plan on maybe doing the same. So, here are my comments on some things i saw in your bio.

I am at the moment running around 8.45 - 9 min miles, I am looking to get this down to hopefully as close to 7 min miles as possible I was training for a marathon during the summer so I feel I have a good base for this.

I now run at more or less the same pace as you. A bit slower maybe. My goal is to get as close to or lower then 8m/mile. But maybe we should both go out there and try to nail that 7m/mile monster :D

One thing I do have (some) experience with, is road bike. I've been doing this for some years now and did some nice TT with nice results as an amateur with no specific training towards it. The speed you are aiming at, is under a lot of influence from the terrain you are riding on and the wind. With no wind at all and a nice flat surface, I'm pretty sure I could nail down a 2:45m/mile over a distance of 27 miles (My OD distance this year) However, the track of the OD I want to do is everything but flat so nailing 3:15m/mile would make me a very happy man. 

And next to the terrain, you ask about your heart rate and how quick you can go. Well, if you haven't googled it a bit or got some advice here on the forum, you should know about heart rate and heart rate zones. One of the most important things to understand, is that there is a certain point when you shift from aerobic to anaerobic exercise. Basically this means your muscles need more oxygen then you can provide and your muscles starts producing lactic acid. Theory says that at this turning point, you should be able to do your effort for one hour before getting all cramped up. Now why is this important you may ask? It means that, if you know this point very well, and if you jump on your bike (after a nice warm-up) you can start pedaling and keep your heart rate at this point for one hour. In theory, this should be the maximum speed you can deliver in your curren state. This turning point can NOT be trained. Its something that you are born with. You CAN train your muscles better so they perform better with less oxygen thus giving you more power when having higher heart rate.

Okay, so this is all a very basic description and you may wonder why I put this down. Well, if you say you have this pace with 150-160BPM and ask if you can go faster, it mostly depends on how long you want to ride your bike and where your turning point is. (turning point probably has a nicer English word, i'm just using a basic translation of the Dutch word here).

You can find this point in two ways. One is the scietific way and will cost you money as you need to go to a sportlab where they will put you to the test. The other way is the DIY way (or bike for a couple of years and learn to interpret your data afterwards but you don't have this data yet).

First way is easy: Find yourself a sportslab, book a session and just do what they ask you to do. In addition, they normally will give you your max HR and your heart rate zones too. (surprisingly, your max HR will NOT be as accurate as it should be but i'll explain this later on)

Second way is first to find yourself a route where you can easily bike for 20 to 30 minutes without having to stop for traffic lights, cars, etc. Once you have this, do a little yet not very hard warm-up. This is purely to prevent injuries and to have the muscles a bit warmed up. After that, start pedaling at what you presume is about 80% of what you can do, look at your heart rate and try to keep this for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, raise your heart rate with anoither 5 beats. Keep this up for 5 minutes. Just repeat this untill you hit a block where you have to grind your teeth just to keep up this pace. You have erratic breathing, your legs hurt, you feel like utter crap. Yes,  just keep this up ;) If you manage to do this for 5 minutes (you really should try to do this for 5 minutes). Try to remember the heart rate you tried to keep. Do this minus 8 and you should have more or less your turning point. Keep in mind that your turning point for running is about 5 BPM higher.

This is important as it means that the higher you go above this heart rate while biking, the faster your muscles will take in the lactate acid and will cramp. So this can be very handy to know. Keep in mind this method will nog guarantee you 100% right number. And even if its correct, sickness, tiredness etc. can change this number -3 to +3 on any given day.

If you have this turning point, you can also start trying to discover your heart rate zones. This can be important if you want to train with heart rate zones (duh). To get started with this, you have to know and use the Karvonen formula.(calculte it here: http://www.ottawarun.com/heartrate.htm) Keep in mind the old 220 - your age is soooooooo wrong. For instance, i'm 31 but my maxHR is about 199. 10 years ago it was 203. So it dropped 4 in 10 years time. To determine your max, you need a set of fresh legs. The easy thing with this is, you can do it either with biking or running. It should give you the same result. I'll explain both ways:

Running: do a warming-up, then run a mile in a good strong pace but not at full speed, about 80-ish%. Then run a a minute or two at a normal pace and then sprint for about 400-500 yards. You should almost drop dead at the end and your stomach contents should try to get out the wrong way. Then you know you have done it well. (sarcastic grin)  Now hook up your sportswatch to your PC and watch for your highest HR and there you have it. Easy :D (well, except those 400-500 yards)

Biking: take your bike, find yourself a nice steep hill, approx 200-300 yards long with a nice grade. By the time you get to the base, I assume you are a bit warmed up. Now go conquer that hill as fast as you can. Again, same conditions like the running method. ;-) Come down the hill and do it again. The downside of this method, is that you probably will have to ride a few miles back home (unless you live next to the hillside) and that can really suck. But when you get home, hook up that watch and ta-da.

Now the reason why this is more accurate then during a lactate test (to determine your turning point) is that your muscles are already getting tired by the time you are doing your last block. Which means your heart is getting tired to and it will never reach your true max. These methods do because you start out fresh.

Normally there is this 10% rule which says you can make your training plans harder for 10% every week to prevent injuries. Now, when training solely on time/distance. Adding 10% is easy to do. When only looking at pace, this is pretty hard because i bet you can run 7m/mile if you are just doing a 1 mile sprint. And most training plans will never let you actually train the full distance of your objective in the race pace you want to reach.

I think this is the event you want to do: http://www.dengieevents.co.uk/#/big-east-triathlon/4543795761 and you are going to do the OD distance. I see its a flat surfaced bike/running course. I do believe with a tri steer on your bike you will get the 3min/miles mark when you try to do it in training. But I don't know how good you will be after swimming. I have no experience with this conversion. As for the running. I can't imagine myself running 7m/mile so after swimming and biking, for me, this would be one of my biggest sportive victories. But I don't know your capacities. I think it will be hard but hey, just go for it! I'll try it too! (allthough my OD is in July :D)

Well, I hope this post wasn't too boring and I hope I didn't tell a bunch of jibberish. And most of all, I hope I made myself clear because I think i'm the only non-english speaker in the company so do correct me when you see mistakes!

Originally posted by Jynxy

Originally posted by el penguino flat tire? broken chain? new PR? snow?

yes damn flat , I was 2 miles from home and could of very easy called the misses to pic me up but I decided that I may have to do it during a race so I replaced my inner tube. took me 15 minutes and I carried on after. I must say that it was gusting 40 mph and raining so my resolve was well tested but I am in a different state of mind now days I do have all the kit for repairs as well and was very tempted to use my nice CO2 cartridge

Congratulations on fixing a flat tire and continuing the ride.  I usually carry my frame pump on training rides and save my CO2 for "special occasions" (like races), but it is a good idea to have a little experience with the inflator prior to a race.  That way you can "expect" that the cartridge gets frosty cold when you use it and you know the sequence so you don't discharge all of that gas outside the tube. 

Originally posted by el penguino question: I was looking at training plans, and I see some are HR (Heart rate?) and some are RPE. What does RPE stand for? I have to psych myself up for my long run this weekend. The weather is awful- cold and windy and snowy, but I just can't do 6 miles on the treadmill so out I go. Do you think 20s and snowy and windy or low teens and windy, no snow sounds better? I'm leaning towards warmer and snowy and windy. Even if I have to dodge snowplows. I hope not.

Rate of Perceived Effort.  I've seen scales from 1-10 and 6-20.  Look at the instructions on your training plan, and it should tell you what the author means because RPE 8 will have very different meanings depending on the scale used. 

I like cold and snowy.  The snow on the ground can be soft and muffle your footsteps, making the run very peaceful. 

This is great everyone!  The mentor program at work. 

Encourage one another, post your successes, and realize that you can choose to make a setback temporary.  It is a new week with new workouts to tackle and new life-challenges to overcome. 

No, life rarely works out the way I expect either. 

aha, Aero bars. Thats what i meant! I assume you have no bike history. My experience with combining running and biking is that it works wonderfull! It really fits together well. The only thin you really need to train on your bike when you run a lot, is getting used to training over longer times. And of course, your muscles need to develop the feel for the motion. Thats why i'm pretty sure you will get to a great pace when you keep your training up.

On another note, starting tomorrow i'll make a weight loss album too. It sounds like a great idea to take pictures of yourself every week and (hopefully) notice the fysical changes next to the actual weight loss. It should provide me with some extra motivation.

Great progress! 

(If you haven't already, get a tape measure and record some body dimensions.  As you lose fat and gain lean muscle, the scale may not provide a reliable indicator of progress.) 

Which are the parts you measure? This morning I taped a piece of paper next to the bathroom mirror to keep track of my weight :D This evening I'll take pictures. I don't have a tape measure yet... I'll probably work around it with a piece of string which I'll measure with a ruler or something like that. A bit more work. My weight was at 99.9kg this morning

The first three measurements should be waist, chest, and hips.  You can add biceps, forearms, wrists, thighs, and calves if you desire.  Some of these are easier to measure if someone is helping you. 

Nancy, wait, 10 degrees fahrenheit? Thats like -12 degrees Celsius. Allthough I always say you can dress up to the cold, your airways can only endure a certain amount of cold. When sporting in that cold and breathing really deep from the exercise, be carefull not to get an infection of the cold.

And I bet having trained with a swim caoch to lay down the base will get you through the next 2 months!

Lol, you really need to start a mentor group in a few years :P

BTW whats the difference betwee hips and waist? And how do you measure all the rest you put in your profile?

(Grin)  That's the way it is supposed to work! 

Hips would be measured even with the joint where your legs attach to your pelvis. 

Waist is less easily defined...you could measure where the waistband of your pants are, but this might change over time.  Alternatively, you can measure using your belly button as a reference.  It may be hgher than your "natural waist" but will always be part of your anatomy. 

So thigh, do you measure them standing straight and with your legs together or one by one?

I usually measure one thigh, standing.