GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 9)

Anne! Thank you very much for your kind advice. For the moment I've only been looking online for information. Is there a book you would particularly recommend?Arthur

I'm a complete beginner too Arthur, I dont even know how to swim yet so you are not alone!

I have a question about finding a training program.  They all seem to imply that you must do all of it or none of it. I am used to doing a reasonable amount of running and some biking but as I mentioned dont even know how to swim yet, so I guess you can mix and match programs to suit?

Also I am wondering if doing some training on my recumbant bike will be of any use at all for bike training?

I was going to take swimming lessons, but now I am wondering if I am better off with TI or the other swim tapes instead?  Someone mentioned having to unlearn what they learned in lessons. I barely have time to learn, let alone unlearn and relearn!

Thanks Steve and anyone else that can offer any advice! 

Arthur, a book that I found very helpful when I was starting out was Your First Triathlon by Joe Friel. An easy read with a lot of good basic information in it without getting too technical.  There are several easy to follow plans as well in it, one of which was a plan I used for my first tri.

Lisa L.

One of the first books I read was called 'Triathlon Training' by Michael Finch, published by Human Kinetics, 2004.    Large format soft cover, easy to read, lots of pictures, nothing too indepth.   Sort of just enough to peak interest in further reading.  

This won't apply to you but for any woman beginner I read 'The Woman Triahlete' Christina Gandolfo, Editor, 2005; also Human Kinetics.   Used one of their training plans - quite doable and I had a good year with it.  

My most favorite is 'Endurance Athlete's Edge by Marc Evans; also Human Kinetics.   This one was over my head for a couple of years but I finally got grasp of it last year after having read it 5 or 6 times and getting some experience under my belt.   That introduced me to periodized training, which our mentor STEVE briefly mentioned in his last post to me. 

The other book I sort of live by is 'Food for Fitness - Eat Right to Train Right by Chris Carmichael, forward by Lance Armstrong - it also explains periodization very well and how it should apply to your nutrition as well as training.  I lost 10 lbs when I started tris, but following a periodized nutrition plan has kept my weight the same for the last 4 years.   It doesn't fluctuate up or down during the year.  

I'm sure STEVE will have some recommendations as well, that may be more suitable.  

Happy reading!  

Hi Linda,

I don't even know what a recumbant bike is, but I do know that I used to do spin classes 3 times a week in the winter for the first couple of years of doing tri's and wasn't sure just how useful it was.   But then I stopped the classes, and I DID notice a big difference when I started riding outdoors in the spring again.  

Anne

ARTHUR and LINDA -

Seeing as how you're concerns have a few things in common, I'll address you both together for now.

When I started tri in '00, it was coming off a few years as a serious runner-only. An tibial stress fracture on Jan. 1 of '00 shelved me for quite a while, and my sports doctor told me I should be spending more time on my bike anyhow, and less time pounding the pavement. The thing was, i had no bike - hadn'towned one for over 25 years. But i did a few spin classes and committed to getting some kind of bike once spring came. In the mantime, with 2-3 months off from running, I started swimming, just to keep in some semblance of shape. I took a few lessons, then went with TI. At some point in the pool one day, i had a "Eureka!" moment --- tat I was palnning to get a bike, and that I'd return to running before too long, and that I was swimming again ---- so maybe I ought to try that triathlon thing! So there it was.

I went into it with no formal plan -- and no bike, for that matter. The bike came about in late April, but for a couple of months I was operating kind of on faith alone --- that I would indeed eventually get a bike. I stayed planless for a very long time, just relying 95% on bookks and magazines, and 5% internet.

I agree with Anne that at first much of what I read was Greek to me. There was a TON of information there, and in fact for the longest time I felt that for every two new things I learned, I forgot something else. There just never seemed a way to get on top of all of that information!

having siad all of that, here's what I think. First and foremost, you have to have a plan that works for you and the rest of your life - family, friends, work, other interests, other commitments. if the plan seems too daunting or too time-consuming, then it won't work; often, in fact, no matter how hard you struggle to make it work.

Linda, when you mentioned "all of it or none of it", I was thinking of my own history above, and I hope you'll take some comfort in seeing the random way I approached my first season in triathlon. Beginning in about February I began the swimming, and was consistent at working on it as the months clicked by. Following a few (3 or 4, tops) spin classes in Feb., probably, i didn't do anything on abike until late April when I bought my first one. And as I didn't even have a trainer then, it was dependent on outside rides -- not always acomfortable given in spring in Ontario. As for the running, I got back into that sometime in April, i believe.

My first tri was in August of '00, and I followed with two more in September. They were all sprints, basically, and that worked for me. So, my first season was not at all fluid -- there was no grand plan, and mostly I just trained to LEARN HOW and to build my skills and base at the newer stuff, the swim and the bike.

I sucked up every bit of information I could, and threw it all into the same slow-simmering cauldron, and sampled from it whenever I could. I kind of ate/drank/slept triathlon for many months --- but there was no overarching plan.

SOOOO -- For now I think you can do what you want to begin to get comfortable in all of this stuff. BUT, if you find a program that works for you, then by all means give it a try. There are hundreds of them out there, and there will be one somewhere that works quite well for you. (Finding it might be another matter, however.....)

the thing with programs, as I mentioned yesterdy to either Stev or darren, is that they are not exactly science. They may be founded on certain athletic/scientific principles that are 100% vaild, but the actual structure of them makes them geared to a certain representative body of athletes, and that's where the science falls by the wayside. At that point they need to become more art than science, with individuals needing to embellish them to suit their own specific needs.

But I ramble still! So, botton line:

LINDA - Yes! You can mix and match to suit your needs!
ARTHUR - I will get the titles of some books to you shortly. It is a new generation of books that are out there now, as opposed to ten years ago, so I'll check our mega-stores here and find some titles that are good for you and other people starting out in this stuff.
LINDA - Your recumbent will help as a form of cross-training, to be sure. I have never been on a recumbent, but I suspect its application to tri-specific training is limited just by virtue of the muscle group it employs, as opposed to those used on a "regular" bike.
LINDA - I need to get a beginning swim post written for you and the other beginner swimmers! Where to start is the big quetsion, but the happy ansewwer is that there is really no wrong approach. I began with four (or six?) one-on-one lessons at a local Y, each about 30 minutes long, and that was great for some basic technique tips. (As I wrote to someone earlier, she told me that I would be a better breather going just to my right side, rather thsan my lifelong left-side breathing.) I then lived off of TI for several months, but also including a great little tape I purchased from www.multisport.com. (I'll try to find if that is still in existence.) Masters swim classes should come at some later point, especially if you are new to serious swimming.
LINDA - More about "learning and unlearning" later!





Edited by stevebradley 2009-12-24 8:30 AM

Just checking in..  I've been really busy the past week with the granddaughters and then had to work the past two nights.  I now have christmas shopping to finish today (in what seems to be a snowstorm) and baking to do tomorrow to prepare for hosting xmas dinner on Friday with hubbys side of the family and a get together with my family on Saturday, then back to work again on Monday for 4 more shifts and lucky me I even get to work a 12 hour night shift on the 31st.

Steve - responding to your post a few pages/days back.. in 2007 (my first tri season) I did the smith falls sprint, carleton place olympic, ktown short course, 1000 islands sprint and canadian half... I think we probably crossed paths once or twice that season... I was probably in T2 as you were packing up your stuff to leave !

I promise you'll see/hear more from me after the holidays as I do have some questions for you.

Enjoy the holidays everyone !!!

LINDA,  STEVE, ANNE and LISA,

Thank you so much for your suggestions. I'll definitely start the cycling off with a few spinning classes in January. Then I'll look into either getting my bike shipped over from the UK, or getting a new one (by the way, do any of you recommend purchasing an indoor trainer for the bike, so as to ride at home thereby decreasing the probability of crashing during training?).

As I mentioned on page 8, swimming is probably my strongest discipline, as I swam competitively between ages 6 and 16. I am not really familiar with the latest developments of stroke technique, I just have the vague impression that triathletes use more shoulder and hip rotation than elite swimmers because they swim longer distances (for the most part) and therefore economy is more important that absolute speed. The only advice I can give on top of my head is MAKE SURE YOUR ARM STROKE IS SAFE, ie, elbow always higher than the hand. Not respecting that simple rule can lead to one of the only (but nasty) shoulder injuries that swimmers are plagued with. About breathing, I entirely concur with what Steve said, and would only add that you should strive to breathe by tilting your head as little as possible. If your stroke, position in the water are right, you should be able to breathe with your mouth fully opened with only one goggle out of the water. If both goggle are out, it usually means you're tilting your head too much for optimal efficiency.

Arthur

Very close.  I could have been your shadow that day...except for the transitions.  I am TERRIBLE at transitions.  One of the the things I'm looking forward to in the IM distance - I think there is less pressure to be great at them!  LOL. 

Congrats Lisa!!!!

Steve et. all,

Thanks for the well wishes and good advice.  I have to admit, I'm only taking part of it so far.  My friend in Vegas is in town this weekend and we're doing a "long ride" on PCH on Saturday - so I want to make sure I don't just jump back into that cold.  So I'm doing my best to ease back into things this week and keep the intensity very low on my sessions.

That said I still came off the bike too fast yesterday on the transition run.  I keep doing that and need to work on it.  I've read lots of articles and been told by a lot of advisers that I want to keep my cadence high and stride length in check right off the bike.  Lately, that translates to going too fast to start, and then I have to really pull things in to gather myself and not blow up. 

One hour ride this morning on the trainer went well - again, I took it pretty easy. 

So, potentially politically insensitive question for everyone:  Are you going to work out on Christmas Day?

Workout tomorrow? Definitely! Planning to eat so much that if I don't run at least 90 minutes I'll hate myself for doing so.

A.

The biggest advantage I have found to learning to breathe bilaterally is so I am comfortable breathing on either side in a race, depending on which side I need to sight on. I find that during a race I usually breathe every other stroke on the side I use to sight.
Mark

PS - Steve, love the delta blues genre too. A long car ride and a load of blues on the ipod is one of my most relaxing things.

Hi Arthur:

Regarding the breathing, it sounds like you're talking about that "pocket" of air you need to find. My problem is trying to find that pocket, and also somehow having enough time to take a full exhale. Right now I'm exaggerating the head turn (almost turning it completely back) in an effort to maximize the amount of time I have to inhale. But I've been breathing every 4th stroke; I'm going to start trying every other - maybe that will help in terms of not feeling like I have to suck in every last molecule of oxygen...

Thanks!

Tracey

I was planning on working out until I came down with this sinus infection! (Not a made up excuse, I swear!)

Tracey

Hi Linda.

When I first started lessons, I exhaled through my nose, because the idea of opening my mouth in the water freaked me out (I had the feeling that water would come rushing in and I'd be coughing and gasping)... But then I started exhaling through my mouth and found that to be much more comfortable. Try both when you're at the pool (not swimming, just with your head under water), and see how they each feel.

Tracey

To STEVE and the other good swimmers:

Hi all. Don't mean to hijack the board, but was wondering if I could get some advice on the swim training I should pursue.

There is a TI coach in my area who I'm considering contacting for some one-on-one (or perhaps small group) sessions.

I also checked out this website mentioned by Steve:

http://www.swimsmooth.com/beginner.php

My biggest struggle is getting the breathing down. What would you recommend I pursue? I know the coach will obviously be more expensive than buying a DVD! Could I benefit from both? Do TI and swimsmooth even complement one another?

Thanks!

Tracey

Hope you don't mind my jumping in. The nice thing about TI is it starts you off floating and finding balance in 'sweet spot', a position where you are balanced in the water and can easily roll to the side for breath. You then learn to extend your arms (one at a time) finding balance with this extended 'vessel' - and still able to roll easily to breathe. You continue to add to this, always with balance in mind (which always allows the easy roll for breath). Once you finally add the arm stoke you are feeling very comfortable with the roll, so adding in breathing feels natural. I have never attended a TI clinic. If you wanted to invest in DVDs a/o books, I would recommend this bundle pack: Easy Freestyle DVD/Triathlon Swimming Made Easy Book Bundle. If you are going to try TI, I think you really need a DVD so you can see the skills & drills performed. I recommend this bundle because the Triathlon Swimming Made Easy Book has sections on workout sets and how to get faster. Hope this is helpful.
Mark

No workout for me.    Going out of town tomorrow morning to spend Christmas with 3 brothers and will be making Christmas dinner for everyone.   Back home late Saturday evening.   Hope to get a swim in on Saturday morning.  

Merry Christmas to all my new GrooveTime friends.   Hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday.  

Anne

Thanks Mark for the DVD/book suggestions. VERY helpful!

Tracey

HEY, GANG!

Oh, I've not been a very good boy today, being gone all day swimming and shopping, and then staying off the computer (we're on dial-up) so we can field phone calls from our kids, both of whom are flying in tomorrow. So, I've been a sub-standard communicator today.....and I owe a LOT of you responses. Keep the faith, please??

Soon, soon, soon.....

TRACEY -

Quickly.....

Preview of coming attraction!

Think Popeye. Visualize Popeye. Think Popeye's spinach. Visualize Popeye inhaling his spinach. Think swimming. Think breathing while swimming. Visualize how a spinach-eating Popeye might breathe while swimming.

Got it?

Steve,

You nailed it with this one!!  I don't think there is a better explanation!

Just my belly, liver and back of my eyelids!!

I'm taking most of the next week and a half off as most of the close places around where I am are either closed or not worth the one day admission. Trying to give my body some time to recover as well so I didn't even bring gym clothes with me. I did bring my bathing suit since this will probably be the only time I get use of a 50m pool.