Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED (Page 9)

I wonder if this helmet would fit?

http://www.realcyclist.com/giro-selector-helmet-womens

BTW, do you have a tri bike or a road bike?

Found this article on protien following workouts.  Interesting read from a guy who knows his stuff.

That's the perfect pace.  Just don't do go too far at first, even though you could.  The idea is to run frequently, but break up the mileage so the stress is way lower on your body.  Then you can start to build the per run miles back up. 

If you were targeting 10-15 miles, the first few weeks your runs should be more like 2 or 3 miles.  I know it sounds crazy, and almost not worth getting ready to run for such a short run, but try the 5 or 6 days a week method if at all possible.

So wait, I'm confused.  We weigh in next Weds to establish our "10" pound equivalent? 

I was with Jeff, but only down 3, so now we have to kick start again?  That's ok with me, since I've got more than 5 to lose, but I just want to know what we're dealing with here.

Good info.  Now, I always have some protein after a hard workout, whether it be high intensity or long.  I've tried with and without, and no doubt it helps, at least for me.  Jeff/Dirk can elaborate for sure, but that 30 minute window is famous from body building and other intense workout types.

Right.  From the body building perspective the idea is that your strenuous workout put your body in a catabolic state (eating muscle), so you stop that as soon as possible by providing the nutrients that allow it to switch to an anabolic state. 

I suppose that's exactly what you as a triathlete want for recovery after exercise too.  We triathletes all know that carbohydrate is used during workouts and seek to replenish it.  But we need to remember that every cell in our bodies is constructed from proteins and protein is an essential building block in cellular repair (even red blood cells for instance, not just muscle). 

The idea of consuming carbs and protein together post workout is used by bodybuilders because the carbs will elevate insulin levels. Insulin is the transport method for carbs to go to muscles and also carries the protein with it so it sort of 'slam dunks' the protein to the muscles.

The 30 minute window is because after a workout the anabolic drive is strongest right away and drops off quickly.

A bodybuilder is doing this to stimulate muscle growth.  A triathlete may not want big muscles, but their workout isn't the type that stimulates hypertrophy.  For a triathlete, doing this stimulates muscle repair without hypertrophy and gets them ready for the next workout more quickly and more completely.

However!  When trying to lose weight as some of us are right now...skipping those post workout calories can help keep us in that catabolic state longer.  We finish the workout burning fat stores (well, depends on duration) and by not eating anything for a few more hours we increase the amount of fat burned that day.  That's how I've lost 7lbs in about 7-10 days now.

Get water for sure. 

But yes, it will assist weight loss if you don't have calories right afterwards.  Try waiting 1 hour.  Yes, it WILL diminish your recovery rate post workout, but the trade off is increased fat burn.

It goes for both long and short workouts.

There is also evidence that working out in the morning on an empty stomach burns more fat than the same workout done later in the day.

Obviously, maximum performance requires good nutrition.  But you can do this along with your bread-n-butter workouts, the relatively easy volume.  You wouldn't have a good result if you were going in to a LT test or key interval workout under nurished.

Also, if you get so hungry that your blood sugar drops and you can't continue the workout that's counterproductive too.  But that will usually only happen when you are first training your body to more effectively switch from carbohydrate-based metabolism to fat-based metabolism.  For many of us, it's a hard, uncomfortable transition.  But it doesn't need to be if we occassionally train through periods of carbohydrate depletion.  (that's a controversial statement)

Thanks Jeff - that's interesting stuff.

On a more basic note, what do you guys use as a post-workout recovery drink (assuming a normal workout)? I usually just stick to water or Gatorade because I've never had the know-how to try anything else.

Part two - what do you guys take on the bike for a long workout? Water, Gatorade or something that won't taste awful after it gets warm in the sun?!

Thanks.

The thing with recovery drinks is that there are some really good products out there that tend to cost a lot.  And there are old school standbys that do just about as well.

One of the easiest old-school recovery drinks is chocolate milk.  Really.

Otherwise anything designed for body builders as a weight gainer.   They have protein and carbs in just the right mixture for recovery.  This is not to be confused with protein powder which is usually all protein.

And there are a lot of great products actually marketed as a recovery drink to triathletes too.

Oh, and don't think that it has to be a drink.  You can eat food for recovery too.  How about 6 ounces of Greek Yogurt?  With fruit.  The fruit/flavoring adds extra carbohydrates and the yogurt has around 15 grams of protein.  Plus water or fluid of your choice to wash it down.

I ride with just water up to about 40 miles.  After that distance I might carry along a gel in case I feel like I'm running out of steam on the ride and need carbs. 

Sometimes, especially if I don't have a gel handy to grab I will mix up a bottle of HEED, which is a gatorade type drink.  When I do, I like to have 1 bottle of heed and 1 bottle of water just because the heed can leave my mouth feeling sticky sometimes.

You could actually experiment with making your own mixture from your favorite flavor of cool-aid.  Mix it 1/4 to 1/2 as strong as normal to suit your taste.  That will add a little flavor and a little bit of carbs to fuel your ride.  You may like to supplement with sodium (it's debatable whether it's needed).  If so, you can add a 1/2 tsp of salt to a 20oz bottle and it shouldn't taste too salty.

If only I'd hit the gym more often as a kid... Who'da thunk it?!

I'm guessing the left over pizza I decided was a "recovery meal" today - because it has bread for carbs and cheese for protein - was probably not as good then?

...There's no need to answer that!

Pizza can be fine! 

I don't know if you are on that 5lb diet train, but if you are, pizza can be OK.  It's more about total calories than anything else.  But many pizzas are higher in fat content than we'd like due to meats and sometimes oils used in baking the crust.

If you are concerned with coronary health or with getting ultra-ripped then diet can become a very, very complicated matter.  But for most of us I don't think we need to obsess over it.

Those are my opinions anyway.  I'm sure many dieticians would disagree with me, but that's their job! 

Hey All,

Sorry I haven't been on for a few days. Been busy w/ doctor appointments and work, also training. Just updated my logs from the last few days (gotta stay on top of that).

My ortho looked at my MRI's, my compression fracture is healing up well and I have 2 bulging discs in my upper back, but they are have the size from the last MRI's.

The good news! I am cleared to begin full training at my leisure. Woohoo!!! I have decided to finish my PT and continue my aqua jogging/therapy until I feel confident about the way my body feels and then I'll take it slow and work back up to a good training regimen.

So, it's time to work on my goals, training schedule, nutrition, and get ready for my first race.

Great news Stan!!  Now you can get started on your tri training when you're ready.  I think it is really wise to get into the road running slowly and after you have completed the PT.  It might be a good idea to start your running on a treadmill at first.  You will have a little less impact stressing your back and the fractures and bulging discs. 

Another thing that is going to be an absolute MUST for you is a strong core!  With the back in the shape it is in there needs to be some core work for you much of the time.  Those support muscles will keep you in better condition and absorb some of the shock of running.  If you haven't already, I would suggest you discuss with your PT some exercises that will keep you strong in the the midsection. 

I also would like to stress proper lifting techniques while you are at work.  I used to power lift and was able to pull some pretty sizable loads from the floor when doing dead lifts.  I would not have been able to sustain a 8-9 year run in that sport without proper lifting.

I have to run.. I have to go watch my daughters swim meet.  I am getting very close to her last swim meet in her career in high school.  I am going to miss watching her compete.

Thanks Dirk!

I've already been doing core training with my PT for the last month and do it at home on a regular basis. My running (my worst part) is starting in the pool and I will continue with that at least through Feb. Then (just as you suggested) I then move to the treadmill (working up my running slowly). As far as lifting, I limit the weight I lift (25lb. max) and make my employees lift anything heavier.

So, Feb. I will begin swimming and running and take it slowly. Let my body tell me what to do. My biking isn't much of an issue. I will start ramping up my miles soon (weather permitting). First race is a bike race (century), so I'm sure this is my strongest part. Then a sprint a month later (Donner Lake Tri). After that I will evaluate my conditioning and decide if I will do a sprint or oly in my next race.

Anyway, it's good to be back!

I agree with this but I could never have put it nearly as succinctly as this^^^^^.  When I was power lifting I would take in copious amounts of protein but I usually didn't take it from a shake.  I almost always got it from lean meats and eggs.  It was during this time that I could consume more calories a day than I can even imagine taking in now.  Lean muscle mass burn vastly more calories than fat, so it kind of goes without saying that metabolizing food was something I didn't really think about.

Anyway, Jeff did quite the job explaining how protein works.  I have used it (and still do) after some of the harder WO's and whenever I feel like I need a little more for recovery or to help stabilize some already shaky muscles after a WO that took place a day or so before.  If I can feel soreness a day after a tough workout that might impede the upcoming day's WO or tomorrow's I take a little extra to boost recovery.  It seems to have worked well in the past and I still have faith that it's the right to consume protein.

I still miss my body some from the days of power lifting sometimes.  I was RIPPED!!  Not like a body builder's body at all, they are way different is purpose and destination.  I got big because I wanted to be strong.  Body builders want to be big and bulky and don't care about strength.  Pound for pound, power lifters could crush a body builder on maximum lifts.

I am so screwed with this already.  This week has been an eating fest for me.  I had a huge lunch 2 days this week and 1 large lunch.  On said days I ate a very small supper or a moderately sized one to try to bring my calorie consumption down a little bit.

It's back on the wagon tomorrow though.  Sorry, I'll do my weigh in tomorrow....after my 11 mile run and 1 hour swim.

I wonder if this helmet would fit?

http://www.realcyclist.com/giro-selector-helmet-womens

BTW, do you have a tri bike or a road bike?

Hey all,

For those of you that are injured and getting PT, ask your doctor for a script for a bike fit and running analysis. My ortho did it for me and when I get to feeling better I'm going to get another bike fit for FREE! Usually its $150 and the run analysis is the same cost. Im lucky that my PT clinic has both of these. Check around or ask, you never know!

Okay, so just to clear things up.

Let's weigh in on Wednesday 1/18.  That will be all of our "baseline" weight.  This means that everyone has be to concious of what they eat AND DRINK this weekend.  You can't overload on foot and salty foods up to Wednesday to establish a weight you know you're going to get rid of very quickly.  We obviously want a real baseline.  So start eating the right amounts every day.  I think 1/18 thru 1/14 gives us all roughly a month to make it to our 5 lb goal.  Our montly goal will be 4-5 lbs.  Because dramatic weight loss isn't smart when you are training hard, everyone that needs to lose additional weight can continue the next month.  This is roughly 3500 calories a week (below the amount of calories required to sustain your current weight) for those of you that love to count calories.

SO!  To keep our weight silent, if you weigh 150 lbs and want to weigh 140 lbs, your current weight will be 15 lbs (everyone in the group has a goal of making it to 5 lbs).  So I for example would like to weigh 180 lbs for race season.  I am currently at 188, so my "current weight" is 13 lbs (8 lbs above our goal weight).  Hopefully by Valentine's day I will weigh 8 lbs. 

If you have the goal of losing 30 lbs, it is likely that it will take you longer than 6 months, but in my opinion a gradual weight loss is important to be able to maintain it.  I have tried the idea of losing 15 lbs in two months.  I ended up feeling like crap and gained the weight back in about the same amount of time.

Very interesting....I never thought of this.  Your PT clinic actually does bike fits?  Am I understanding this correctly?

I think I will be switching my long run today to my long bike.  Currently "the weather outside is frightful" with a temp of 15, wind chill of -3, winds at 22 gusting to 40.  The idea of running 11 miles in that doesn't appeal much to me especially since last weeks 11 miles was run in shorts.  Bad part is a 2:50:00 bike after 2 days in a row on the bike already won't be very good on my seat (so to speak).

Tomorrow will bring new issues with running though.  We are expecting 2-4 inches of snow today and tonight so that will make 11 miles a little harder.  I guess I'll have to slow down a little bit and take my ice cleats with me just in case.

Swim is first on the agenda today though.

Awesome news Stan.  I'd give you the same advice to start out slowly and be smart, but it seems you've got everything well under control there.

I never even imagined this was possible.  Great idea.

Sounds like the right decision Dirk.  I'm working from home since we are covered in ice today.  I started to drive into work but didn't get too far before I realized it wouldn't be fun - lots of cars sliding around and such.  My run this afternoon should be fun.  I think I'll stay in the neighborhood and just do a few laps rather than brave the main streets.