GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 91)

YEAH!

I got to take my bike outside to play today! First time with aerobar.  And clipless pedals! Fun fun. Now, back to work.

Mandy

Boiling a frog - if you put a frog in a pot of water and turn the heat on, as the water heats up, the frog won't jump out.  It can't perceive the increase in temperature (discomfort) until its boiling and then it's too late!  :-)

Swim was a fiasco.  They no longer do the 50m set up, so it was a 25 yard turn around again, and CROWDED.  Swam for 40 minutes and then got tired of doing circles and got out.  Will do another session in my quiet/non-crowded pool to make up the time.  Have to admit that the arms were fatigued and I felt I was swimming through mud for a while.  At the same time, once I settled into mud-mode, I was fine. 

Hi,

SteveB,
I did not get out to try my clip-ins - maybe tomorrow.

I'm really glad you suggested shorter swim sessions when I'm doing speed work.  I really don't think I could've worked them into the long sessions.  30" sounds good.  I can probably find speed workouts but I would much prefer you recommend something - if you would be so kind.  Thanks so much.

Denise

Congratulations on getting out for your first outdoor ride of the season.   This is pretty early for us, isn't it?   I'm usually freezing in April.   Speaking of which, you are ALOT tougher than me - no socks and gloves!      You should  have seen me.   Cycling toque under helmet, UnderArmour, medium/heavy weight cycling jersey with sleeveless windvest, plus wool socks, toe booties and my gloves!  

Got out yesterday, a ?quick 10km ?????this aft? ?a??n?d? ???3?0??+?k?m? ?p?l?a?n?n?e?d? ?t?o?m?o?r?r?o?w?.? ? ? ? ? ? ??T?h?e?n?,? ??I? ?t?h?i?n?k? ?w?e?'?r?e? ?i?n? ?f?o?r? ?s?o?m?e? ?m?o?r?e? ?s?n?o?w?.? ? ? ??:?(

STEVEB,

Not sure what happened to my last post.???


Anyway, got a quick 10km in this aft and a 30+km planned for tomorrow.   Then I think we are in for some more snow.  

Hi,

Diane,
I just hydrate in transitions.  I know I need to do something more - it's on my list.  One advantage I have is that my tris are in MN, and even tho it can get hot here, it's unusual for morning races to be too warm, especially the 2 I did last summer which were Northern MN.  I'm sure it gets A LOT warmer down there.
Getting aero bars so I can drink easily probably makes sense, but I probably won't get them 'til I get faster on the bike.
Denise

CONGRATULATIONS DENISE!!!! 

Great long swim and PLEASE don't say 'pretty slow'.       That's a 2.00/100 meter pace which I don't think is slow in anyone's books.     I doubt I will EVER see that.   Well done!   

No No Anne - your calc can't be right(wish it was) - yds and meters are pretty close
I've got to leave now but I'll figure it out later for time/100 meters
Denise

Hey Shaun,
Yes, that was my trusty Trek 1200 with clip-ons.  Rode that for 5 years.  I am now on a 2009 Felt B12.  I'll use the B12 on the IMSG.  There was much debate in the online forums as to whether people should ride a tri or road bike on the course.  Having ridden the course, totally a Tri Bike course.  (As an aside, I think this tends to be a great area of debate (road vs. tri bike) and in my humble opinion, I can't think of any triathlon course that one is really better off using a road bike vs. a tri bike.  Maybe Savageman?  Maybe...  In my opinion, the only question on road vs. tri is what do you plan to use the bike for?  If you like to ride for fun and recreation then road bike.  If the only time you ride is for tri, then get a tri bike.)

As for tri history, I got into it at work, doing a sprint race for charity my first 4 years and then last year, stepping up to the OLY distance.  My MO was train for 4 months for the sprint, then sit on my butt for the following 9 months.  I'd generally start out at 180-185 lbs and drop to 170ish for the event and then quickly go back to 180-185 lbs. 

I have no real endurance history.  I ran a marathon about 8 years ago and hated it, swore I'd never run again, and only started again because the sprint distance was only a 4-mile run. In my opinion, I'm not particularly athletic.

Tri didn't become a "lifestyle" for me until sometime last year (mid-summer of 2009)  This past year (March 2009) I elected to try the OLY and "got serious" about my training.  (I did the BT Oly program btw).  Thinking back to how miserable my first sprint was, I was determined to train properly for the OLY and really focused on the process that the plan laid out.  That said, in March of 2009, I was up to 185 lbs, in my worst physical shape in a few years, and couldn't run for 20 minutes without feeling like I would vapor lock.  A long continuous swim was 5 minutes.  I literally had to build from nothing.  Anyway, somewhere in the process, a few things happened: I dropped 20 lbs, which made training more enjoyable because I was able to do it better, which made me want to do it more because I felt better about myself for doing it. 

ANYWAY - (long time to answer the question I know, but I'm bored in a meeting) - tri is now a way of life for me - distances are likely to be a minimum of OLY from now on - having done that, I prefer it more to the sprint distance.  I suspect, but won't know until I do it, that the HIM will likely be my distance of choice (2-3 a year).  So far, my mind understands and feels that the cost/reward of the OLY or HIM distances make sense to keep doing them for some time to come.  IM is an unknown for me.  I'll have to see how I feel after crossing the line.  I LOVE the process of training for it - just not sure that the joy/reward of the day will offset the punishment of the day enough to keep doing them. 

Time will tell....

MANDY -

Well, $1 just doesn't go very far anymore. (Not that $5 goes much further..... ) I'm just thinking that if I get in trouble far from home on a hot day, at least if I can make it to a store I can buy a Gatorade...or two. Sometimes I'll start the outside season with a five and then add another five later -- or some combination of the $1 and $2 coins we have here.

And then?!? At the end of the season, when I'm relegated to indoors for 4 or 5 months, I "rob the piggy bank"! BONUS! I'm richer than I thought I was!!

MANDY again -

True story:

I said that the practicing I did in motel rooms was before Timberman '01. So come race day, I was at the point where 106 turns right on to Leavitt Road*, and about 75 yards further alone there was another racer on the side of the road, desperately yelling for someone to help him with......his flat tire! Being a good samaritan, I stopped and gave him a brief bit of help -- showed him how to use the tire levers, got two of them in and started moving the one around to show what he had to continue doing. I then said I had to go, and that if he needed further help in a few minutes with the next step, someone else would likely stop and help. (Admittedly, there was no guarantee of THAT happening, but I had palces to go and things to do! )

Anyhow, I was glad that I knew kinda sorta what to do, and glad that I could help him in some small way. I couldn't help feeling that he should've practiced some himself before the race, but I tried to shove that bit of presumptuous arrogance out of the forefront of my brain! Anyhow, tube-changing practice is good!


* Ah-ha! The right turn onto Leavitt Road! Be ready for it!
Here's how it works:
The last part of 106 before that turn is a longish downhill -- maybe about 400 or 500 yards? The turn itself is a hard right, and I think it even comes back on itself a bit. So, it makes lots of sense to brake hard coming into it.......but the problem is that right after the turn a climb begins. The climb is not steep and it's not long, but it WILL get your attention -- especially if you were in your big ring (which is likely) coming down 106 AND you brake hard AND you don't shift into your small ring before you make the turn.

So my unsolicited advice is to MAKE 100% SURE that you have gotten into your little ring before the turn! And you can help yourself even further by shifting into one of your two easiest cogs (25 or 23; or 23 or 21, depending on your cassette). If you do this, you will come out of the turn going safely slowly because of your prudently necessary braking --- BUT you'll be in the right gear to spin as sweetly as possible up that buggery hill!

Sounds like a plan?

DIANE -

"....things that are triggered by almost anything..." Alas and woe, that's it exactly.........

And for me it's compounded not so much by being cocky (although I tend to be that way with swimming and my shoulder), but by forgetting that certain movements WILL have an undesired effect. I ws especially daft about this my last few years teaching, where every so often I would forget myself and chase a soccer ball with some kids and end up straining a hamstring or something. Sometimes I think the safest palce for me would be inside a Skinner Box.

Good on the buoyancy, and keep methodically and patiently working on the breathing. And one of these days it WILL all come together!

Did you ride today, and if so, did Senor Sciatica behave?

TIME OUT!!

Gotta wish you all a happy St. Patrick's Day! I realized that I know virtually none of your last names, so I don't even know to whom this day might even be somewhat important. Last year I knew there was a Palmer and a McCloskey and a Hangan, and all of them have that good old Irish ring to them.

But this year? I know few surnames! As for me, I once saw a gorgeous geneological map of Ireland and in searching the hundreds of names on it, all in small type, I found O'Bradly twice, in the counties of Cork and Donegal. But the word is that our family had more roots in Wales, and maybe is even predominantly garden-variety British (boooooring...... ), so my dream-quest of being Irish is probably unfounded.

Being Irish was somewhat important to me. I mean, growing up just outside Boston, I was a Celtics fan. And of course, Boston itself is thick with the Irish. And the town I grew up in was about 47% Irish and 46% Italian.....and I knew I wasn't Italian, so that left the Irish to try to identify with. (Of course, of that 93%, all but 2% were Catholic, and I knew I wasn't that, either. It was all so confusing!)

ANYHOW -- Happy St. Patrick's Day, one and all!

MANDY once more -

Of the 15-20 flats I have been plagued with over the years, about 80% of them have been the rear. Can you say *#!*@_!#*? I Sure can!

Finally, only about two years ago, I figured out a way to change out the rear wheel without getting the entire left hand all grubby-gritty-greasy, so at least when I get flats back there I don't make a mess of myself. And changing out the rear wheel, just going from training wheels to racing wheels and back and forth ad nauseum xx times a year, is almost enjoyable now. Look, Ma, clean paws!

DENISE -

Yup! I'll be happy to get a few speed-based workouts for you! And I'll try to do it in a more timely fashion than some of the other things I once promised here -- Louis Tharp thoughts, and mounts/dismounts, and shoulder injury prevention..... Oh, my.

So, if nothing comes in a day or two, PLEASE rattle my cage. Even throw sharp objects in my general direction, if you feel that might help. Let me know that I am being remiss!!

SHAUN -

ANOTHER sweet run! And the beat goes on -- it is certainly Groove Time for you and your running!

STEVE -

Thank you for the illumination about Boiling the Frog. Grisly, but something to know, I suppose. It's a good thing that lobsters and frogs don't frequent the same bodies of water, or else they might conspire to somehow get the upper hand (foot? claw?) on sadistic and/or hungry humans!

That's too bad about losing the 50m pool option. Mine is gone for this week, as the pool that does the 50m is taken over by kids at March Break camps. The nerve of those little punks!

In my days of doing evening swims, it was frequently a question of fighting for just about every inch of water-space. I'm very glad I'm no longer restricted to evening swims during the week. It was especailly awful when my coach wanted me to do 1000m time trials, as I spent more energy worrying about avoiding other people (punk adults.....) than with just swimming 1000m hard. Bah!

Definitely sounds like a plan!  Thanks so much!  I am going to check out the course sometime in July, so I will look for Leavitt Road and take note of it in the scouting mission so I am all ready for it on race day.

I filled a water bottle with tire changing stuff and have it in my drop cage now, love that idea... Thanks so much for sharing...I actually found the tires you mentioned, and I got them.   My current back tire is beat, and my front has a small crack in it...Keeping them to beat on with the trainer next winter....

I figure I will put them on myself just for the practice of putting stuff on.  That and my LBS is right next to my "local" pool...75 min away!  But my plan is to practice, practice, practice the tire change so I am am ready and hopefully don't have to use it.  Love the story about getting the guy started on the tire change, BTW.

Oh, and great point on the $5 bill.   These days, you might be better off with a $20.

ALL - Happy St. Patrick's day.  I am part Irish (my grandmother was from Ireland, near Galloway, I fondly remember her Gaelic rantings at my grandfather when she got mad at him), I had 2 Guinness and a boiled dinner down at the local pub in her honor and memory.  She would be so proud! 

Cheers,

Mandy 

ANNE -

I understand (lord, how I understand!) your frustration with fickle speed in the pool, and right at the start here I'm going to tell you to not beat up on yourself for being "full of excuses". The three you list there are all valid reasons for having an "off" day with those 50s, and even if you had not had late yoga, and had knocked off 9 hours of solid sleep, there is still this -- not every workout works out the way we hope.

Aside from the three valid "excuses", one more might be that you were trying too hard, and as a result your stroke lost some of its effectiveness. I have found over the years (countless times, in fact) that when I try for speed I can very easily assume stroke mechanics that are not optimal. I can tell this by seeing my times not being as fast as I'm aiming for, and by my stroke count being unnaturally high; it all just falls apart pretty quickly. And, believe it or not, I have never found a formulaic solution that works every time. That is, I can have a decent speed session one time, and the next time it's all gone to hell in a handcart.

But I do have a mental image of how I might look from thre deck when my speed isn't happening and my stroke count gets high, and ot's not pretty --- but it gives me something to work with as I try to rein in my form. And while that can usually work, it also kills the speed session right then and there. This is better than persisiting with poor form, but it's still frustrating.

Is Ken in the water with you all the time? Does he know what you look like (especially from the deck) when you're swimming well? If so, you might want to enlist his eyes from the deck the next time you're trying the 10 x 50 on 1.05. You know how many flaws there can be in a swim stroke, and he might see one or two that are obvious. Maybe when you aim for speed, sometimes your pull shortens....or you fishtail....or your legs splay on the kick....or your hands enter too early....or...or...or....

Or maybe it was just a bad day, due to late yoga and poor sleep (speaking of which, I woke up at 3 this morning, for no apparent reason, so I'm functioning on 3 hours sleep right now ), and the next time will show marked improvement. But if Ken knows what the swim-efficient you looks like, then he might be able to pick out the flaws when your efficiency isn't what you want it to me. Inspector Ken, solving the Mystery That Is Anne!

And reducing the 10 x 50 to smaller bites is a great idea, and my guess is that you will be able to hold it together for those. I've rarely done a speed session that hasn't worked right from the beginning; I mean, I can usually do a few lengths at the speed intended........and THEN it begins to fall apart on me! So if you can do (2 x 50 on 1.05) x 5 with the RI reduced, then within a short while you should be able to connect the dots between each set of 2 and see the results you're working towards.

And very nicely done on the easy cool-down at 2.18! Sounds like a relatively relaxed stroke worked for you right at the end!

ANNE again -

I just noticed your coda line about resisting doing TT for the swim. About all I can say is that I'm with you on it. For me, they were* (a) hard work, (b) full of dodging other swimmers, and (c) often disappointing. And as for the * there after were, that's to tell you that I resist them so much that I haven't done one in over three years, since the days when Erik would set them for me --- and I'd hate seeing them there in the workout blocks.

Now, having said that, I will tell you that I do quasi-TT in open water settings, using the buoy system in the Rideau just south of Hog's Back as my route/course. But as for doing those 1000m TT in the 25m pool........not in 3+ years!

ANNE once more -

About down-dresssing on the bike.....

I do pretty poorly with heat and humidity, so I figure if I can't make that extreme work for me, I'd better acclimate to racing in cold conditions. So that's what I'm aiming for -- a certain tolerance for racing when I'm cold. This has helped me in the past with early season potential freezefests such as Columbia and Mosseman, and for some late-season ones, too. In fact, one of the reasons I had a strong race at lake george last September was that I stayed minimally-dressed for the bike, while lots of other people took time in T1 to don layers. My only concession to that was having arm-warmers on my aerobars, and putting them on about a mile into the bike when my arms had dried off (I ended up removing them a few miles later, FWIW).

I made it through this (past?) winter wearing relatively little on all of my outside runs, and I feel good about that. That's not to say that I ever aimed to suffer, but I'm always looking to wear as little as possible, either riding or running in cool and cold. But what doesn't help me, ultimately, is that I have lousy circulation to my extemities, and that just seems to be getting worse as I age. So when my feet get cold in a swim, and then stay cold on the bike, I will start the run feeling as if I'm "running on stumps". This is pretty awful, but I guess it's like all other training goals --- experience them first in training, and they would shock you so much come race day. (Kind of sounds like a triathlete's version of an ascetic existence! )

DENISE -

I'll give you a few speed-focus workouts here. The first two will be from our old friend Matt Fitzgerald and his oft-mentioned book, and the last will be from "Workouts in A Binder", by Gale Bernhardt and Nick Hansen. The Fitz ones are slightly less complicated -- which does not mean that they are any less effective, just that they are easier to store in the brain (or to write on an index card to be put in a sealable baggy and kept at poolside).

1.) Swim Fartlek Interval (100-yard intervals with an easy/hard format, and 10-second rest periods)
***4 x 100 (25 easy, 25 hard....), with 10" rest between each 100

2.) Swim Lactate Interval (75-yard intervals swum hard, with the designated rest period)
***4 x 75, 45-second rest. If 4 x 75 is too much, and/or 45" rest is not enough, then adjust accordingly!

3.) Endurance/Speed 1
***4 x 200, moderate, with 20" rest intervals between each (moderate means aware of breathing, but not struggling)
***2 x 75, fast, with 15" RI (fast means as fast as you can while holding your form)

With all of those, do a decent warm-up -- an easy 200-400 yards should work. And don't forget the cool-down (200-300)!


Also, for the third one I have omitted a somewhat involved warm-up, and also a kick-set that follows the 2 x 75. If you want to know these, I will be happy to send them along to you. Anyhow, give these a try and see how they suit you.

And somewhere I have a stack of cards (that went in the aforementioned poolside baggy) from my days with Coach Erik, and I was hoping to use these for examples for you. I'm not sure where I've put them, however!

Finally, as I say above, feel free to make adjustments as necessary! These have to work for YOU, so if something is too many or too short or too whatever, dial it in to your own particular needs.

Glub, glub!

HEY! It's 5:23am here! Where is everybody??

HEY! I am right here! Morning!