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Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED (Page 39)
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 2010-11-18 7:05 PM in reply to: #3210904 |
Champion  7595     Columbia, South Carolina |  Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSEDjuneapple - 2010-11-15 7:47 AM slornow - 2010-11-14 9:20 AM Whats up next for you? It would be great to hear everyone's thoughts/plans for the 2011 season. I'm also going to put together a "what did I learn in 2010" list over Thanksgiving. I was thinking that could be a good reflection process... again, would love to hear others' thoughts in that arena. One resolution I have for 2011 is to never switch to breaststroke in the swim again :-) Stu Next year for me will be a mixed bag of short and long. I don't think I'll be doing another IM - the timing and the finances don't add up. I will, however, be doing long course world's in November, so that will be the focus of my late season. Early (December), I am going to start this crazy plan I have of getting fast in a 5K. I won't tell you what the plan and goal are because, well, I don't think I can bring myself to say it out loud. But I'm excited about starting the journey. juneapple - 2010-11-16 7:47 AM Weights... good issue and would love input from others on this. I've been thinking about doing some upper body work for my swimming. Something is going on with my swimming pace and one of the possibilities is the need for more strength. I had done some work with weights when I started swimming again and I think that might be part of the puzzle. But I've heard mixed reviews on weights on the boards here. Not so much for swimming, but for running/biking. Related to this is a strange question. I've found that although I can run 10 miles and not feel particularly winded (seriously, it's my muscles that are holding me back on the run), when I walk up stairs, I feel like a friggin' old man. Is this indicative of a weakness in a particular set of muscles... and if so, are they important to run/bike? I also find that I rapidly fall behind people on the run on inclines... I've always chalked this up to having more weight to lug up the hill, but maybe it is something else that should be addressed and related to the stair issue. I ran a hilly route last night that highlighted this issue for me. I don't avoid hills on my training runs, I'm just particularly slow on them. Thanks for any thoughts on this... will have a marathon question for you runners later this week. Just have to figure out what the question is... hahaha! Stu Yes, the fast people and those whose opinion I respect are not very keen on weights for the purpose of gaining speed. (Weights do have other benefits, especially for us older guys, who tend to lose muscle mass and bone density. I'm not referring to myself, here, however, because I think you have to HAVE muscle mass before you can lose it. OK, I have quads and hamstrings. That's about it for me...) I confess that I don't really know what to think on this one. I've tried some weight lifting in the past, and I find it difficult to stick with it. I don't have a problem working on 'functional' strength, however, by doing hill repeats on the bike or run, or using paddles on the swim (when my shoulder can bear it). As for your muscular versus cardio-vascular endurance, it is not uncommon for these to be 'mismatched'. I'm quite confident in saying that (regardless of whether weight lifting has other benefits), the issue here is not strength, but muscular endurance. You don't improve muscular endurance by lifting weights. How DO you improve it? I'll relate a conversation I had quite a while ago with a local racer in SC who regularly wins the open division races. After one race, we passed (he heading to the finish line, I to the turnaround!) and I noticed that he was breathing much harder than I was. I thought "no way could I be working that hard and make it to the finish". I asked him at the end how he could be working that hard and maintain the effort. He said: "I run 18 miles every weekend. I run it pretty hard. Not race effort, but pretty hard. That's why I can run 13.1 hard to the end." (I heard a similar comment from someone spectating at on of the one-day classics in Europe. Of course he was impressed by how fast they were riding, but what really got his attention was how much BODY HEAT they were generating.) I don't know whether he is right -- not every fast athlete understands WHY he or she is fast. But I can say that I've adopted a similar attitude towards my long runs and bikes -- I do not do them easy. I don't do them at race effort -- that would destroy me for training the rest of the week -- but I do them pretty hard. "Long slow run" has been excised from my training vocabulary. This approach has, I think, helped me to maintain a hard effort over the course of a race. |
| 2010-11-19 10:28 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Michael-your previous post brings up some interesting points about speed in training. I have been giving this alot of thought recently as I look to my training/racing for 2011. I have looked at several plans/training philosophies online that are very different yet generate successful results. For instance the Mark Allen Online coaching seems to emphasize lots of long slow distance in biking and running-focusing on keeping HR low and building fitness through lots of aerobic (Z1-2) training. On the other hand Endurance Nation plans seem to focus on "quality over quantity" incorporating more Z4-5 intervals in the biking and more frequent interval work in the running. Seems that both programs have achieved results for their members. ( I am not a member of either so my understanding is limited to what I have read online in reviews and at the websites.) I have trained somewhere in between. At least one interval/tempo run a week with 2 bike workouts with hard (Z3-5) intervals. I suspect anyone doing too much intensity too soon will have injury issues. I dont think there is one "right" way to do things but am just curious as to how 2 somewhat opposite training philosiphies can both work. Does it really boil down to just being consistent in your training-finding something you are comfortable with and sticking with it? The more I get into this the more I think that 90% of the gains that can be achieved can be obtained through consistency in training. The last 10% is the tough part and thats what is hard to figure out. I am looking down the road at doing New Orleans HIM in April and may do an Endurance Nation plan. They really focus on increasing FTP on the bike through hard intervals and more intervals in the running with fewer long slow runs. Seems to be a solid option given the limited daylight over the winter months. The swim is the swim and for now I think I will have a better return on investment by focusing on the run/bike. Over the winter I will shoot for 2 swims a week to try to maintain my current form, or lack there of. Sorry to get so long but this is interesting to me and was curious to see what others think. Randy
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| 2010-11-20 3:26 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Extreme Veteran 334 Oshawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED My reason for doing strength training at this time is simple. From what I’ve read about strength training is that it can help when racing courses that are hilly. My first Olympic and HIM will be on same very hilly course, so I thought I would add some strength training. As a beginner, I think any kind of training I add will be beneficial. It will make me stronger and help in some way. My view on the various methods of training, whether it’s for endurance or any other kind of sports, is that they all work. Reason they all work is it’s dependant on the individual athlete. What they never state in these claims is how many have tried their methods and failed. I would not be surprised the failed ones went over to the other method and succeeded. I bet if you tried both methods they would help you in some way. One will make your strengths stronger and the other would strengthen your weaknesses. Another way to look at it is one would give you a couple minutes improvement and the other tens of minutes. As an individual you need to figure out if you need to add more work on your strengths or on your weaknesses. All depends on your goals and races (course types and length). |
| 2010-11-20 6:16 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Thanks for the thoughts guys. Randy, for what it's worth, the intervals definitely made a huge difference for me this year (thanks again Michael for that guidance in the Spring). I didn't do tons of them, but it definitely contributed to my breakthrough times in all distances. But I don't see how you can be successful in running without some long and slow work too. Seems like variation is important. I spent alot of time prior to this year basically doing the same thing every workout (and more is better). And I had pretty much plateaued at an unacceptable level to me. Literally a month after starting the intervals, my speed improved. No doubt. I might try to do some testing over the winter of whether doing 24 miles in 4x6 miles vs. 4, 3, 6, 11 (or something like that). In other words, is a mile a mile or not? Especially if I try to work toward a marathon. So Sylvain, what specific weight training will you use... specific targeted or overall? Here's my marathon training question. If my goal is to run a full marathon (don't really care how slowly), how many miles do I need to build to in a week, and what should my long run be? btw, after my 10 mile run today, scale said 196! No official weigh in, but woah... haven't seen that for a long long time! Stu |
| 2010-11-20 9:15 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Extreme Veteran 334 Oshawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED I'm keeping my strenght training very simple for now: |
| 2010-11-21 9:01 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Randy, this is probably more than you were looking for, but here goes... Stu, I'll say something about your question at the end too. The issue that you raise is something I've also been giving a lot of thought to, as well as doing some research. Here's what I think (right now): Let's call 'more time, less intensity' the 'high volume' plan (that's a bit of a misnomer but nevermind) and 'less time more intensity' the 'high intensity' plan. First, if you (that's the generic 'you', not YOU!) cannot do the high-intensity plan without getting injured, then obviously it's not for you. Some people are more prone to injury than others. Oh, and the way to improve injury-resistance is to do a lot of the longer less intense stuff. So for many people, the intensity has to be 'backed up' with previous volume. A lot of training plans follow pretty much exactly that concept: they are high volume (well, build up to high volume) in the earlier stages, and high intensity closer to race day. For many people, this works. Second, I think that both methods can work. I do believe that one can get faster by just doing a lot of running (or biking or swimming). I also believe that one can get faster by doing less but more intensely. But, third, there is a limit to the effectiveness of either plan, in my opinion. Stu noticed it. If you stick with the high volume plan for a very long time, you will plateau. Your body needs a new stimulus. If you stick with the high intensity plan for too long, you will burn out. Your body just cannot take that week in and week out. Fourth, the two plans are also limited in another respect, in my opinion, and that is that neither 'scales' very well. What I mean is that it is hard to 'take it to the next level' while sticking faithfully to either view. Suppose, for example, you are running 50 miles per week on the 'high volume' plan. (For most triathletes, that's quite a lot.) How do you ramp that up (while still staying on the high volume plan)? (I'm ignoring the issue that we would all face, here -- lack of time!) Well, you bump it to 70, or 80, or 100 miles per week. Yes, it is absolutely true that you will see further gains by doing that (if you can do it without getting injured), but after around 50 miles per week (guestimating and it will be different for different people) the marginal returns on your training investment are going to go down. The gains you see going from 25 to 50, for example, far exceed what you'll get going from 75 to 100. The high intensity plan doesn't scale well either -- you'll just tear yourself apart. If you want to take your training beyond what you can get on the basic Endurance Nation type plan (which isn't bad! I'm not knocking it at all), or beyond what you can get just running easy 50 miles a week, then you pretty much are going to be forced to 'mix' the ideas, i.e., train long hours but with a decent amount of intensity thrown in. The mix will be different at different times of the year -- your plan should definitely be 'periodized' (which I think is a pretty misunderstood concept, actually -- a lot of people seem to think that it means 'go slow early, fast later'; that's not really it). But, in my view, if you have the time, then the way to go is definitely to mix the concepts. Of course, time is almost always an issue. The high intensity plan has the virtue of requiring less time, and I think that (again, assuming you can do it without injury) one can go a pretty long ways following such a plan. But, for the reasons I mentioned above, I think there are limits. Now, speaking specifically to the 'long slow run' (or the 'long slow bike'), I have pretty strong views about this. I think they are not very useful at all, at any time of year. They can be fun, in a sightseeing sort of way, but I don't think that they are very helpful. I think that apart from lack of consistency, the number one error in training made by amateur long-course athletes (HIM and IM) is going too easy on their long runs and long rides. I see it all the time. I've occasionally been guilty of it myself. I spoke with a couple of guys prior to Beach to Battleship and they were hoping that their taper would allow them to bike and run faster and harder during the race than they had in training. Huh? (No, I didn't say this to them; I was raised in the Midwest, where we don't tell people what we think of their ideas, at least not directly...) So on race day you are going to bike harder than you did in training? And then run a marathon? And you are going to run that marathon faster than you did in training? Sorry folks, but it doesn't work that way. An IM bike should be easier than any long ride you did in training. It should feel like those sightseeing rides (the ones you do only for fun, right?). This is not to say that one should not do a lot of easy running. (Biking is a slightly different story; you should do some easy biking, but I wouldn't say a 'lot'.) You do a lot of easy running because any running is good running, and you cannot run hard all the time. But using your long run to 'just gain miles' is a waste (especially if you are a long-course athlete, because then the long run triggers exactly the adaptations that you most need). You need to train your body to go hard for a long time, and going hard for a long time is very very different from going hard for a short time. Of course you don't run your long runs at an all-out race-type effort. But you should keep them hard. On the bike I would say that you can go even closer to race effort. (By 'race effort' I mean the effort you would put out if you were doing a single-sport race of the same length. The effort that would leave you collapsing on the finish line, ideally. Your HIM or IM race-efforts on the bike and run will be less than what you do in training.) So do your long run hard, and do most of your other runs easy, with some intensity thrown in if you can. That's my advice. How long to run? For a half marathon, I like my long run to be 13 miles or so. For a marathon, I want it to be 20. 18 is OK. 22 is OK too. I prefer to have at least two runs of these lengths. Your long run should not, at least not regularly, be more than around a third of your weekly volume. The reason for this 'rule' is that if your long run is too high a percentage of your weekly volume, then your weekly volume is probably not enough 'backing' for the long run. Speaking non-metaphorically, your weekly volume is not producing enough fitness and resistance to injury, so that your long run is likely to either tear you down too much (your fitness really can't handle a run that long) or just leave you injured (your resistance to injury is not high enough. So we can work backwards and see that your peak weekly volume would ideally be at least 39 miles for the half marathon and 60 miles for the marathon. You can get away with less, however, because the longest of your long runs can bend the 1/3 rule a bit. (You don't want to be bending that rule on a regular basis, but a few times is probably OK unless you are very prone to injury.) I would feel very comfortable (by which I mean, I would be confident going in that I could perform reasonably well and recover well) doing a half marathon on a peak volume of 35 miles per week or so, and a marathon on 50 miles per week. Following another rule (10% increase per week, with the occasional week of no increase), those numbers mean that I also had many weeks of running that were not too far away from my peak -- I built up to that peak slowly, right? For example, the weeks leading up to my half marathon last spring looked like this:
(I just looked this up in my logs to see whether I had put my training where my mouth is! Whew! I was not tapering for this race, so ignore that aspect of things.) As an example of what I mean by doing your long runs 'hard but not all out', that 13.1 the week before the race was done in 1:37. My race time was 1:28 (on similar terrain). (Again, if I had been tapering for this race, I would NOT have run that hard the week before.) |
| 2010-11-21 9:02 PM in reply to: #3219684 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED juneapple - 2010-11-20 7:16 PM btw, after my 10 mile run today, scale said 196! No official weigh in, but woah... haven't seen that for a long long time! Stu Way to go! I moved in the opposite direction this past week, but I'll start doing something active again soon... |
| 2010-11-22 1:12 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Extreme Veteran 334 Oshawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Michael, you've got the gift of becoming a great trainer. I love it when you spill out your thoughts. |
| 2010-11-22 8:34 AM in reply to: #3220866 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED sstucker - 2010-11-22 2:12 AM Michael, you've got the gift of becoming a great trainer. I love it when you spill out your thoughts. I'm glad you found it useful Sylvain. Anything I write here is just my thoughts, which you can use as you wish. Strides: 30-40 seconds is all you really want to do. 9 or 10 times during a run is a good number too. The point of strides is more about improving neuromuscular 'wiring' (they improve form and help you learn to turn over faster) than fitness. If you are running enough to 'back up' your speed work (see my earlier post for what 'backing up' means for me), then in my opinion a good place to start doing some speed work is fartlek-style running. You'll find a wide variety of definitions of 'fartlek' out there, and even some (perverted, in my view) attempts to turn it into an 'official' and very specific track workout. But really it just amounts to throwing in bouts of speed during a normal training run. A good way to do it is to pick landmarks and say "OK, I'm going to run hard (not all out, just hard!) until I get to that spot". The time you spend running hard could be as short as half a minute, but I think typically people go for longer, maybe 2-5 minutes. After you run hard, don't stop (if you need to stop, you ran too hard). Just resume an easy training pace, and then, when you feel up to it, go hard again. I cannot recommend this style of speed training highly enough, especially starting out. You are letting your body dictate what it wants to do rather than forcing it to do what the little piece of paper says. Whenever I've been away from speedwork for a while, I always begin with fartlek for this very reason. Plus, as the name implies, it's fun. ('fartlek' is Swedish for 'speed play'. It's supposed to feel like you did when you were a kid running around on the playground.) |
| 2010-11-22 1:07 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Stu-good job on the weight loss! Lots of good information guys. I think that variety in training is important and keeps things interesting and makes the body adapt to different stimuli. I have a hard time doing a "long easy ride" just staying in the same gear and spinning along. I always try to throw in some intervals to push things on those rides. I try to keep the overall stress of the workout as low if it is an easy ride so the intervals would not be so hard as to turn it into a tempo ride. As I get closer to a race I try to incorporate much more "race pace" work into both my long runs and long rides. For instance my last longish run before the HIM was 12 miles with last 3 miles at my goal race pace or faster. Great way to get your body accustom to working hard at the end of a tough workout. I think it is a mistake to blindly follow any one plan or philosophy. However, I do like having a plan to follow so that I can have specific workouts. Otherwise it can be too easy to overtrain or undertrain depending on how you feel on a particular day. With that said I am not using a plan right now-trying to maintain solid run and bike fitness and a more technical focus in the pool. Too much going on over the next week or two to jump into something . In December I will begin a plan with eye on doing New Orleans 70.3 or another April/May HIM. Michael-good luck with the fast 5k plan! Maybe we can have a contest where each of us predict what your 5k goal is and what you will ultimately run.............Winner would get swim lessons from you Sylvain-must be tough staying focused through the winter in the Great White North-way to keep at it! Randy |
| 2010-11-22 1:42 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Extreme Veteran 399 St. Louis | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Stu- Sub 200 way to go. No longer a clyde! : ) I wish I was doing as well. I've been RAVAGED by injury and sickness. At this point if I could get 2 weeks of continuos training finished I'd be happy. It gets a little depressing knowing you have lost 100lbs and still have 30-40 to go. : ( Michael- Thanks for the info. OMG you are a training encyclopedia! Just checking in and saying hello. It sucks being side lined. Phil |
| 2010-11-23 12:12 PM in reply to: #3221851 |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Michael... awesome post!! Thank you. Everything you say resonates with my experience (albeit at a much lower level) which allows it to "stick" to my training memory somewhat better. I think you also may have provided me with another breakthrough insight. I've been presuming that one should only have one long run each week (and it seems to me that simple running plans I've seen reinforce this approach), but if I'm reading your post correctly, it is okay to have two equally close (or in the same neck of the woods) long runs each week. Thus, to get to 36 miles / week, you might have two 13 mile runs and two 5 mile runs. Is that correct? If so, that answers one of my questions regarding the "your long run should be about 1/3 of your training volume" that I keep seeing in posts. And, while I'm at it... Happy Thanksgiving to you all and your families! (Not looking forward to seeing the scales on Monday!) |
| 2010-11-24 8:06 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Stu, If I were to do two runs at my long run distance per week, one would indeed be very easy, the other 'hard', as I described. I would prefer to see the easy one broken up into two runs, though. So instead of something like 5 - 13 (easy) - 0 - 5 - 13 (hard) - 0 - 0 I'd prefer to see something like 4 (recovery) - 5 - 9 - 0 - 5 - 13 (hard) - 0 where either that first 5 mile run or the 9 mile run might include some speedwork. I don't think that the first one is awful, but the second is better. It is better in part because if one is feeling up to it, there is an opportunity for some speedwork. The first plan does not leave a reasonable opportunity for speedwork. You could move the 13(hard) back a day to get speedwork in, like this 5 - 13(easy) - 0 - 5(speed) - 0 - 13 (hard) - 0 but I think that speedwork that close to a hard long run is not ideal. Probably both will suffer. Also, in general I think that running more days per week is better than running fewer, for the same mileage. A ot of people could do a ot worse than run 5 miles a day every day. (Yes, OK, the boredom factor would soon become overwhelming.) But I'm so convinced of the value of increased mileage up to around 50 miles per week that I'd say just about anything that allows you to increase mileage, up to that point (or thereabouts), is a good thing. If that means running two 5s and two 13s per week then go for it. Just pay attention to how you feel, because that plan could lead to injury. HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! |
| 2010-11-24 10:43 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Happy Thanksgiving Everyone-be safe if you are traveling. Among numerous other things, I am thankful that I am able to get out and enjoy being active in this sport-even swimming although I am usually most thankful when I am getting out of the pool. My son, a HS junior, and I will be leaving the Thanksgiving festivities tomorrow to head for Charlotte, NC and the Footlocker South Cross Country race that takes place Saturday morning. We have done this the last 2 years and it is always alot of fun. This year he is running in the "seeded" (top) race and is hoping for a PR (sub 16 5K). A couple thousand of the top HS runners from throughout the South/Southeast will be there and it is always amazing to watch these young athletes. He has focused on peaking for this race since the Summer so hopefully all will go well. He is healthy and his training has gone well now itjust boils down to racing. Randy
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| 2010-11-25 6:45 PM in reply to: #3225735 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED slornow - 2010-11-24 11:43 PM Happy Thanksgiving Everyone-be safe if you are traveling. Among numerous other things, I am thankful that I am able to get out and enjoy being active in this sport-even swimming although I am usually most thankful when I am getting out of the pool. My son, a HS junior, and I will be leaving the Thanksgiving festivities tomorrow to head for Charlotte, NC and the Footlocker South Cross Country race that takes place Saturday morning. We have done this the last 2 years and it is always alot of fun. This year he is running in the "seeded" (top) race and is hoping for a PR (sub 16 5K). A couple thousand of the top HS runners from throughout the South/Southeast will be there and it is always amazing to watch these young athletes. He has focused on peaking for this race since the Summer so hopefully all will go well. He is healthy and his training has gone well now itjust boils down to racing. Randy
Best of luck to you and your son! Sounds like a good time. |
| 2010-11-29 8:17 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Hey Michael, as a philosopher type, is this article the triathlon equivalent of "in order to run fast, you must run slow"? http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/paradoxical-truth/ Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving... after 2 18 hour drives, way too much food, and an above average amount of workout time, my home scale seems to have been adjusted upward while I was gone. Hopefully by the end of this week, I will be back within 1-2 lbs of where I was 10 days ago. I really have a love/hate relationship with this time of year when it comes to food :-) Found out next weekend's 1/2M is sold out, so I need to start planning next year asap so I don't lose training momentum! Stu |
| 2010-11-29 8:19 AM in reply to: #3225735 |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED slornow - 2010-11-24 11:43 PM My son, a HS junior, and I will be leaving the Thanksgiving festivities tomorrow to head for Charlotte, NC and the Footlocker South Cross Country race that takes place Saturday morning. We have done this the last 2 years and it is always alot of fun. This year he is running in the "seeded" (top) race and is hoping for a PR (sub 16 5K). A couple thousand of the top HS runners from throughout the South/Southeast will be there and it is always amazing to watch these young athletes. He has focused on peaking for this race since the Summer so hopefully all will go well. He is healthy and his training has gone well now it just boils down to racing. How did your son do, Randy? |
| 2010-11-29 12:59 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Stu-thanks for checking on us. We had a good time but the race was kind of a mixed bag. He got a PR of 16:06 so thats good but he was really hoping for around 15:45 given his training times over the last 6 weeks. He was right on pace to hit the 15:45-50 range but there is a steep hill at about midpoint of the race and his rear leg got clipped on the downhill causing him to take a hard fall. I did not see any of this as it was back up in the woods and had no idea until after the race that he had fell. His right knee looked like a cheese grater had spent some time there and he had abrasions on his hip, elbow and pretty much his whole right side. I am really proud of him for continuing the race despite the adversity. He had focused on this race since Summer so despite the solid time he was pretty dissappointed. Fortunately, he is a junior so he can try again next year. He really wants to run in college and was hoping to lay down a fast time to get the attention of the coaches at the schools he is interested in. Actually, he is interested in a couple of VA schools including one very close to you! Sounds like you were on the road a good bit too! Randy Edited by slornow 2010-11-29 1:02 PM |
| 2010-11-29 9:47 PM in reply to: #3229067 |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED slornow - 2010-11-29 1:59 PM Stu-thanks for checking on us. We had a good time but the race was kind of a mixed bag. He got a PR of 16:06 so thats good but he was really hoping for around 15:45 given his training times over the last 6 weeks. He was right on pace to hit the 15:45-50 range but there is a steep hill at about midpoint of the race and his rear leg got clipped on the downhill causing him to take a hard fall. I did not see any of this as it was back up in the woods and had no idea until after the race that he had fell. His right knee looked like a cheese grater had spent some time there and he had abrasions on his hip, elbow and pretty much his whole right side. I am really proud of him for continuing the race despite the adversity. He had focused on this race since Summer so despite the solid time he was pretty dissappointed. Fortunately, he is a junior so he can try again next year. He really wants to run in college and was hoping to lay down a fast time to get the attention of the coaches at the schools he is interested in. Actually, he is interested in a couple of VA schools including one very close to you! Sounds like you were on the road a good bit too! Randy Hi Randy, Sounds like he ran a heck of a race, especially in light of the fall. I feel for you both... nothing tougher as a parent than seeing the disappointment on your kid's face... even when you know in the greater scheme of things, it is another important step in a bigger learning process. What am I saying... 16.05... wooohooo! :-) If you're talking about UVa (very close indeed), they've got a fabulous young CC/T&F coach. Also, not a bad school, academically :-) My wife is faculty in the French Dept. in case y'all have any questions (especially regarding the french program!). If he visits the campus ("the grounds") on a warm spring day, it's tough to imagine a better place to spend 4 years. Big year for him... and no doubt you'll be making the grand tour over Spring break (what a blur that was). Stu |
| 2010-11-30 8:03 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Stu-you are right UVA is a beautiful school and we will be doing the circuit over Spring break. I am from Hampton, VA originally and went to JMU so its always nice to get back to the Commonwealth. UVA has had some really strong recruiting classes for their XC and distance programs over the past couple of years. Its very difficult to be accepted to UVA as an out of state student but I suspect he will apply to both UVA and W&M in Virginia-of course its no coincidence that they both have exceptional cross country/track programs. He does well academically so it should be interesting to see how things come together over the next year or so. Maybe we can get together for a jog when I get up there! Take care Randy |
| 2010-11-30 8:37 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Randy -- congrats to you and your son. Overcoming adversity is a great trait for someone that young to have. Thanksgiving (two of them, in fact...one per family) combined with post-IM blues had me gaining some weight as well. Real run training resumes this week. Bike next week. Swimming has to wait until my shoulder heals. |
| 2010-11-30 10:34 AM in reply to: #2775149 |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED |
| 2010-12-01 6:45 PM in reply to: #3230342 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED slornow - 2010-11-30 11:34 AM Michael-are you starting the "fast 5k" journey that you mentioned before? Randy Yep. Today was day 1. It's going to take a long time! My basic idea (unconventional) is to get my body running at close to (at this point, actually, faster than) hoped-for pace, even if only for very short stretches. |
| 2010-12-03 6:55 AM in reply to: #3229932 |
Expert 1384 Charlottesville, Virginia | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED slornow - 2010-11-30 9:03 AM Stu-you are right UVA is a beautiful school and we will be doing the circuit over Spring break. I am from Hampton, VA originally and went to JMU so its always nice to get back to the Commonwealth. UVA has had some really strong recruiting classes for their XC and distance programs over the past couple of years. Its very difficult to be accepted to UVA as an out of state student but I suspect he will apply to both UVA and W&M in Virginia-of course its no coincidence that they both have exceptional cross country/track programs. He does well academically so it should be interesting to see how things come together over the next year or so. Maybe we can get together for a jog when I get up there! Randy - You must have thoroughly enjoyed JMU's upset of VaTech then :-) Yes, tough at both schools to get in out of state. When Katherine was looking, she really liked W&M and I have to say (even as a Wahoo) that I had the sense it encouraged a more complete, serious student than UVa. Several of her good friends wound up there so I'll pass on any insights I hear after they all get together over Christmas break and compare notes. Virginia has so many great in-state options. We're fortunate that way... but like many schools across the country, ours are coming under the budget fire as well. Hopefully, by the time you come to visit my all out run will be strong enough to keep up with your jog! Stu |
| 2010-12-06 5:48 PM in reply to: #2775149 |
Master 3058 South Alabama | Subject: RE: Experior's Group, Take Two -- CLOSED Michael-how is the 5k program going? Anyone doing any races this month? I think I am going to do an 8k Saturday. I've been trying to incorporate more intervals in my run and bike training. I'll see if it has helped my speed if I do the race. Have found excuses to avoid the pool for 2 weeks. Planning to swim tomorrow though. Hope everyone is well. Randy |
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