Adjusting bike aero position as season progresses

You're going to be "adapting" to an aero position for 6 months.   Just pull the band aid off and ride in a proper position, adapt for a couple weeks and forget about it.

I put adapting in quotes, because if you are continually dropping the bars and sliding the seat forward and feeling good about it, you are not adapting, you are riding a bad position until you get around to riding a good one.

Everyone does it this way and it is just silly. You are not limited by your flexibility, core strength or athleticisim to ride a proper position. You are limited by your belief in aerobar folklore.

I have seen this scenario play out several hundred times now. 

And let me add this as well. If you have sufficient flexibility to bend at the waist and touch your knees (not you toes, your knees) then your fitter at best gave you poor service. More likely the fitter was an idiot who bilked you out of $175.  

That's right, I said it!  Nobody of sufficient athleticism to ride aerobars should walk out of a professional bike fit with 0cm of drop. The proper drop will relate to your self selected seat tube and hip angles, and it will also scale somewhat to height, but you would need to be extremely short for 0 drop to be proper.

Wow, thanks Dave for the very "to-the-point" advice... I wasn't expecting that, but your reply does make a lot of sense.  I did feel ripped off when I left the shop with a 0 drop aerobar fit. I also admit I've been perplexed by how easy each "adaptation" phase has been so far -- too easy, actually. I keep waiting to feel at least a bit of back and arm discomfort/soreness, but it hasn't come. My only concern with increasing the angle has been the loss-of-power versus aerodynamics trade-off. But I guess I won't be able to find that point until I do some experimenting. Thanks again. Best of luck with your swim program and coaching!

Wow, Dave, Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Seriously, though, thank you. I will don't anticipate getting a Tri bike until next year sometime, but I will not let them put me on a 0cm drop...

How about the notion of moving the seat forward for more drop? Is that correct?

I recently dropped my bars a bit further but didn't move the seat. It feels a bit more stretched out now. Should I be moving the seat forward anytime I drop the bars?

How about up and down? Should the seat go up or down when the bar height changes?

Yes the seat should come forward as you drop down.  The goal is to equalize for hip angle so I am not sure that a simple 1:1 ratio is always going to be correct.

As far as seat height, it should be equalized as well. So as your seat comes forward, the height itself will be lower relative to the bottom bracket. So forward = raise the seat.

Thanks a lot Dave, will be making some adjustments before my ride tonight.

It's nice to have you on the boards Dave; a refreshing voice of reason...

Yup...don't forget this.  Easy way to smoosh yourself up if you don't.  But in case you are wondering 1cm drop up front does NOT mean 1cm seat height in the back.  You just have to do a quick "two triangle" calculation where the hypotenuse of the triangle is the same length and the base changes (shortens).  Hope that makes sense.

step 1- drop your front end as low as you can go and still be able to see the road
step 2- slide saddle forward to maintain hip angle
step 3- swap stem to maintain the same reach
step 4- switch to 145-165mm cranks
step 5- adapt 

Once again...

step 2a.  Raise saddle

Thanks everybody for your input/help on my question last week... I can now safely say I'm no longer in a 0cm drop position!

I made some adjustments and brought the bars down as far as they would go and switched from 25mm to 12.5mm spacers under the arm pads. I also moved my saddle forward (it's now maxed out too), and raised my seat post. Here's the result (all the shots in these sequences are using the same current configuration):

Sorry for fuzziness of the pictures -- they were taken as screenshots from a video.

So far, this position feels comfortable -- only a slight bit of soreness after the first ride, but nothing else since then. Should the seat post go higher?

I suspect I could go lower in front if I had more adjustment room (as I said, I'm currently maxed out with my saddle-forward position and bar height). Earlier today, I ordered a Ritchey Comp Adjustable Road Stem (80cm -- I'm currently using a 90 cm stem). I think the adjustable angled stem could also help bring in my horizontal reach.

Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

I'm so desperate right now I'm tempted to fly to Richmond to see you for a fit.

Thanks apicek... I agree -- I'm not going any higher with the seat post. The pictures are a little deceiving because my pedals are at too steep of an angle at the bottom of my downstroke. I live up in the hills, and I could barely find a 100-foot flat section to take the pictures. So I was either pumping uphill or coasting downhill and had problems establishing a relaxed, natural cadence. I'll probably make a few more minor adjustments, but I think I'm getting closer...

Well sorta, but maybe even not really....

I think the use of (and belief in?) the words aggressive and comfortable are the root of many bike fit problems.  I don't want you to be either. 

I want you to ride the position that feels best and most powerful WITHOUT letting your preconceived notions about aggressive positons being uncomfortable get in the way of this. 

"Comfort" is a little tricky.  You are not riding a laz-e-boy.  You need to be sustainable and able to run well without being in anything more than mild to maybe moderate discomfort (if the race is short). It is still an ok or even excellent position even if it is somewhat of a relief to get out of your aerobars or off your bike when you are done.

When the cessation of an activity is somewhat of a relief you are not participating in a comfortable activity. And that's ok. Semantics to a degree but I feel this is an important distinction as well.

Podiums are comfortable.

"Aggressive" just bugs me. We attach this word to positions with entirely appropriate body angles, support etc. 100 degrees of hip angle is a powerful position to pedal the bike for a majority.  It is also quite low in that it leads to a fairly flat back most of the time. It can look aggressive I suppose, though it requires roughly the same flexibilty as required to touch your knees, maybe a little less. Not your toes, your knees, or at least your lower quads.  That's the position. Bend over straight legged and touch your knees. Now place your arms in a position of skeletal support and put aerobars pads under your elbows to hold you up.  Pedal. It works.

I'm aggressive in that I aggressively force my head down as far as I can and have only 12cm between the centers of my aerobar pads.  I also run a proper seat height and exactly 100 degrees of hip angle.

So I would restate your question as "if i chose to ride an appropriate position for say a sprint or olympic distance race, its just a matter of riding in the position long enough to become sustainable and confident in that position?"

To which I would say that if the position is truly appropriate it should lend itself to confidence almost immediately, and it will be as sustainable as properly selected touch points (seat, pedals, bars) allow it to be.

All of the above assumes a reasonable fit and athletic individual suitable for aerobars to begin with. This is not for all of us, but it certainly can be for most of us. And it surely is for more of us than believe it.

There are bad bike fitters and good bike fitters like anything else.  I hope you find a good one less than a plane ride away.

If you ever feel the need to fly to Richmond for a fit, I'll do it for free.

saddle is way too high.  flip stem.  

Thanks. Yep, the stem is already flipped. I ordered an adjustable stem yesterday with a shorter reach.

I think part of the issue with the saddle height might be because of a bad foot angle on my part in the photo sequence. I couldn't find an adequate flat area near my house to take the pictures. As a result, I wasn't pedaling with a steady cadence and I think it messed up my form. But I'll try it a little lower anyway. I went on a 54-mile ride today and felt pretty good. I didn't seem to be rocking. I also found it easier to move forward on the saddle. I guess there's still some tweaking to do...