Interesting swim problem (to me at least <G>)

I'm in the same funk you are in - not really kicking, at least not normally.  I'm interested to see what kind of responses we get to this . . .

How about this: Don't worry about kicking. You read that right. If you are swimming a reasonable distance in a triathlon, you will need your legs for the bike and the run, so if you can swim without kicking, or by kicking very minimally, do so. If you are familiar with Total Immersion, he recommends a "non-overt" kick, which means the main thing that your legs need to do is not get in the way of slipping through the water.

I'm no expert, but I know that it is a lot easier for me to swim distances without wasting energy kicking.

I've been waiting for this post for a long time. I've had the exact same experiences! 4 months ago, I couldn't swim legs only with a kickboard even 25 meters without my legs being tired. I decided to take some personalized swimming lessons with a swim coach. I did better after that. But the pull buoy thing is exactly the same. I could swim 1600 meters straight through with a buoy (I've done 1000m)already and wasn't even tired. So I'm going to take the last post's advice and use "non-overt" kicking. That way my legs won't be exhausted when I get out of the water and get on my bike.

Yes I have had and still do have this problem at times.  My legs were using all of my available oxygen and it was killing me.  I would get done swimming and my legs were dead.  I still kick way to fast but I am much better and swimming a little farther.  It has become a focus for me just like the TI drills on breathing, balancing, ect....now it is kicking.  Slow it down and don't spend too much time with the bouy.  Use it to get the feel of how you should be swimming but not so much you start using it as a crutch.  I don't think they allow them on the swim portion of the course   But then I haven't done one of these yet!

I've had this same problem too!!! Swimming is my weakest link and I usually only last 25 minutes in the pool before I'm completely exhausted (read: sucking water). I read on this site about ZOOMERS and went to their web site to read up on them. I bought a pair when I was down island for my 10K this last weekend ( a gift to myself for doing so great in the race!!). I used them this morning for the first time. WOW!!! They really let you power through the water and concentrate more on your stroke and breathing. I swam for 35 minutes (the first 15 minutes without them) and quit as I didn't want to over do it on my first training session with them, although I could have done more. My calfs were a bit sore, but my arms got a great work out, I worked on the entry, catch and finish of my stroke without worrying about moving through the water. I used a very light kick and still found myself surging through the water. Anyway, I would recommend them for swimming training, especially for us nonfishies! Their web site is zoomers.net
Is there anyone else out there using ZOOMERS with good results???

Dolly

Well glad to see I am not alone. I have the TI video, and I work on integrating those things into my workout as much as I can. One thing I did find today was that if I watch my hands underwater it helps with my overall comfort level in the water which, in turn, made me kick less and with less haste.

What a frustration this whole swimming thing is!!! I started swimming for the first time a few months ago in prep for my first tri on June 5th. Being very analytical I studied everything I could find on swimming, and finally found my greatest assistance with the TI DVD that I bought a few weeks ago. It has totally helped, understanding balance in the water.

What I have found to help with the breathing and kicking is to not kick at all, simply allowing my legs to flutter enough to assist me with my balance. Also swimming downhill-- burying my head 1-2 inched below the surface of the water, and taking small pauses as I reach to grab more water in front of me before I start the pull phase of the stroke.

This has been a huge success for me--I used to have to stop and take a few breathes every coulple of laps since I was working so hard just trying to go fast enough so it didn't feel like I was going to sink. With the slower arm stroke, my overall time has gotten better, my endurance has dramatically improved since I am not working as hard, and it is somewhat relaxing to swim when my heart is not trying to jump out of my chest.

Being a swimmer in college I was always told to kick when I swim but it messes up my stroke. I have a 2 beat kick which means I kick once every arm stroke, just enough to keep my feet from sinking. If you watch swimming on tv you will see that distance swimmers all have a 2/3 beat kick which is also perfect for tri swimming. I suggest leaning down in the water with your chest, aka swimming down hill, this will help your legs not sink so much. Also if you want a real challenge swim 25 yards without a pull buoy and your feet crossed at the ankles. It is very hard to do, but it will help you learn how to bring your feet up without kicking a lot.
Hope this helps

mindy

Edited by Minkota 2004-05-06 2:08 AM

i think (just my opinion though so take it with a pinch of salt! that if you use a kick board its pretty evident that it is the arms that do the most work. when i swim f/s my kicking is constant but moderate and smooth (but when i am using a kick board i do look like i am jot moving, it could be that for some when kicking it throw's the stroke off as the kick is too violent (splaying etc.) and is rocking you all over the place (this is what i found anyway), this would defintely take your breath away.

i know what you mean about the pull-bouy but you could interperse some kick-board only in your trainning sessionsand build up the legs on their own, then when you put it all together start off kicking lightly maybe just to get the motion going on even if they arent contributing that much to the stroke, then build it up over sessions. Its just like anything, if you are weak in one area focus in on it, give it special attention...

this is just my opinion though, i am not qualified to give any advice or anything, so i could be utterly wrong!

Here's another 2 cents....I find that I rotate much better when I use the pull-buoy (and much less when swimming "regular"). Perhaps you need to practice your rotation when you swim so your stroke can be longer and you can be more efficient and able to use less legs/kick?? If I concentrate a lot on rotation, I slow down my arm speed but my time is better and I breathe easier.
For what it's worth... and good practicing!

ok i found this on http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/swimming/freestyle.htm

'The main propulsive force of the Freestyle stroke is the arm cycle. The legs add only 10% of total speed through the water, depending on whether you use a 2, 4, 6, or 8 beat kick. The main function of the legs is to help keep the body balanced and efficient to allow the arms to do their work and keep the body moving when the arm cycle is at its weakest point.'

so i presume if you kick is offset you will come unbalanced

.....just an idea

joscon,

I don't like pull buouys!
They give you an arificial sense of floatation in the water.
Your coach was right about one thing, you are probably kicking too hard and expending a lot of energy.
When you are practicing your TI drills, a good thing to do would be to use fins. The best are Zoomers or Hydrofinz. These will not only let you take your mind off your kick while doing the drills, they will also help you improve your kick by helping with ankle flexibility (and secondarily, strength).
Drop the buoy!

Good luck,
Kevin