General Discussion Triathlon Talk » High heart rate for run leg Rss Feed  
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2012-07-16 10:46 AM

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Subject: High heart rate for run leg
I am four weeks into training for my 3rd tri (sprint) and still have a high heart rate when running (and I am a slow runner). Yesterday I did a 17 mile bike and transitioned into a run at an 11 minute mile pace yet my heart rate was in zone 5 the whole time. How do I bring this down? Longer, slower runs? More intervals? Any feedback would be helpful.

Edited by mary_wilcox 2012-07-16 10:47 AM


2012-07-16 11:25 AM
in reply to: #4313607

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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg
One - it's easy to jump off the bike and feel like you're going slow, so you actually accidentally run at a much faster pace than you should be.Two - Hydration that far into the workout?Three - It happens to me too. HR just increases as fatigue level goes up. Perhaps increasing your long rides and add some speed work so you're relatively less fatugues getting off the bike?
2012-07-16 12:06 PM
in reply to: #4313607

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg

Hi Mary! Welcome to BT.

Whose Zones are you using (each coach/author has slightly different ones) and how did you determine your own heart rate ranges for each zone?

Reason I'm asking, though, is that in most systems Zone 5 is anaerobic ... we're talking short sprints (as in true sprints, not "sprint" triathlons). Your heart simply isn't able to sustain in that level for more than a couple minutes.

2012-07-17 8:29 PM
in reply to: #4313887

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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg

I originally calculated my max heart rate based on formula in Sally Edwards' "Triathlons for Women" book, which was the same as the heart rate chart that came with my Garmin. I have the heart rate programmed into the Garmin, which calculates the zones. 

I should clarify that when I said zone 5 it is really on the threshold of 4/5, but still higher than I feel it should be given I am only running an 11 minute mile for a combo workout.

2012-07-19 9:48 AM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg

It's a great book. I have an autographed copy from when I met Sally, who is phenomenal.

I can't remember if it says so in the book, but I do know Sally and pretty much any other coach would tell you that a formula MAY work okay for starting out, but once you have a little bit of running and cycling under your belt, it's time to determine what YOUR zones are PERSONALLY.

Check out the first post in this thread, and the links in it for more information.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1

You will find, over lots of frequent and consistent running primarily in Zone 2 (with little excursions into 3 and 4 called, say, "hills"), that you can run faster at the same heart rate.

2012-07-19 10:43 AM
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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg

I agree with TriAya.  Make sure you are calculating your zones correctly like in the thread posted.  I would add though that the goal is not to bring your HR down, but rather to be able to run faster at a given HR.  As you increase your fitness, your HR Zones will likely stay the same (perhaps even increase if you are new to running), but the speed you are able to maintain at a given HR will likely increase.  For example, when I started out, I could only run a 10:00/mile pace for my 20 min test and my Avg HR was around 165.  Today, my Avg HR is roughly the same (actually slightly higher) for the same test, but my pace is now around 6:50/mile.

Building running fitness by running more (focus on frequency over distance) will help make you faster.  There is no need to do intervals for running when you are starting out.  It will only increase your chances of injury. 

Personally, I have had better success with using pace vs. HR for training.  I use the VDOT Calculator to help set my pace's for training.  I still wear an HR Strap, but more so to understand how my body responding and measure fatigue. 



2012-07-19 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg
A few things...

1) As mentioned, if you haven't tested your HR zones, maybe your HR isn't actually too high. Here is what my zones are that were acquired from testing at a center:

HR Zones for Run:
Warm up / Recovery - 123 - 155
Steady State / Endurance- 156 - 172
Tempo - 173 - 184
Interval - 185 - 189
Anaerobic Capacity- 190+

You didn't mention what your HR was. Only that is was zone 5. But maybe you weren't that bad off? I don't hit zone 5 till 190+ BPM. BTW- I am about to be 40 years old, 5'4", and 125 lbs. But none of that really matters since we all have different HR zones. The 220-minus your age is BS.

2) If you haven't been training that long, you may not be that aerobically fit... YET. Keep training. It will get better. To see how aerobically fit you are, when you stop running, see how long it takes your HR to drop. If it drops 20-30 beats quickly, that's good!

3) If you ran in the heat, that will elevate your HR QUICKLY. It will also make your HR drop slower. I ran last night off the bike and had to walk a lot to keep my HR out of zone 3. It was hot, and that's just how it goes in the heat.

4) As others mentioned, zone 2 work helps. Maybe people when they start zone 2 running they have to walk a lot. But keep working it, and it will get better. That's when you see your heart not working as hard to keep an easy pace.

Good luck! Keep training!



Edited by KSH 2012-07-19 12:49 PM
2012-07-19 5:43 PM
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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg

I have noted that my run HR is generally higher than the bike HR, in fact, my avg. run HR is about the same as my max bike HR: I did a 70km bike with avg/max 132/161 and a 7,5km run with 165/175, both on routes without steep climbs. This is likely because of the differences in the disciplines, running being a weight bearing sport.

Your max HR is a guesstimate, I've tried different formulas and they all give around the same give or take a few beats, my max should be around 185. Well, I did a bike route with a steep climb, climbing 400m over 8km and hit 235! I thought it was an error but looking at the data the HR was sustained over some time and there were multiple peaks over 200. According to some formulas, with max HR 235 I should be -15years, oh, and last year running in the park I could see my HR peaked as I passed a group of girls, loosing 10 years in a split second! Tongue out So, the lesson, don't take HR too literally. HR and zones are a good guidance, but only a guidance.

AFAIK the HR zones are mapped to your metabolism. In different zones the metabolism relies more on some or other processes to produce energy. So, for example 85% fat burning in zone 3, 50% fat/50% sugar in zone 4 etc. Well, in zone 5 you should work so hard that you almost entirely rely on muscular glucose, this cannot be sustained for a prolonged period of time because you run out. 

Hence, if you can sustain "HR Zone 5" for a long period of time, maybe your zones are wrong.

BR

2012-08-10 9:14 PM
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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg
Thanks for the feedback. I have been training for quite awhile, unfortunately, but my running has always been a weakness.  I have a race in a week, so too late to do anything differently at this point, but after this race I will probably drop back to training strictly in lower zones for awhile to see if that helps.  My heart rate does drop very quickly when I finish, so I know I am not completely un-fit!
2012-08-11 5:08 AM
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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg
Quick tip that works for me to get my HR down, shorten your stride. Feels like baby steps but it works fr me to quickly get hy HR down.
2012-08-11 6:21 AM
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Subject: RE: High heart rate for run leg

Don't worry about your pace. If you're going anaerobic slow down even if it means walking. When I started using a HRM, I had to slow my run down by 2 min/mile. Now, after 2 months, I'm back where I was pace wise but at a lower HR.

Try to feel when you're starting to go anaerobic, one thing I notice is my breathing rate really picks up. 

When Mark Allen started training this way he had to walk up hills to keep his HR in check. This was just after his 2nd place finish at Kona.



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