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2016-09-16 8:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Trump

Apparently Chris Matthews thought she was doing it at the time.

http://truthfeed.com/video-more-proof-that-hillary-clinton-started-the-obama-birther-movement/23950/

*edit to fix dead link



Edited by tuwood 2016-09-16 8:41 PM


2016-09-16 8:53 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Trump

As I mentioned the birther thing is very complex and has evolved a lot over time.  It's also had many variants such as he's born in indonesia, kenya, hawaii, etc. and then the whole muslim thing which gets tied in but is technically a completely separate issue.

Hillary's campaign was playing the indonesia birth card as well as the muslim card.  Do you remember when Hillary's campaign released the famous picture of obama in native dress.  So Obama apparently thought she was being quite the (I guess we'd call it racist now)
http://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/obama-slams-smear-photo-008667

Here's the article about Hillary's staff sending the picture to Drudge:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1579833/Barack-Obama-tribal-photo-sent-to-Drudge-Report-by-Hillary-Clinton-staff.html

I do agree with you that it's quite unlikely that Hillary was sitting at the top and making this stuff up, but her campaign was knee deep in it. 

Do you remember Bill's lovely quote about Obama carrying his bags:
Bill Clinton, in an effort to secure an endorsement for Hillary from Ted Kennedy, said to Kennedy, “A few years ago, this guy would have been carrying our bags.” Clinton’s role in the campaign rattled Obama. He told ABC News in an interview that Clinton “has taken his advocacy on behalf of his wife to a level that I think is pretty troubling.”

Yet again for the entire weekend there is going to be story after story of Hillary and Bills blatant racism and involvement in pushing racist anti-muslim stories against Obama.  Trump is destroying her so bad she doesn't even know what to do and the media is helpless.

2016-09-16 9:49 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

What's the logic behind Trump not admitting Obama was born in the US? His campaign says he now believes it, his son says he believes it, but he refuses to come out and say it. 

If he wants to move past this and turn the focus on his platform, then just say it and get it over with. He'll take like one day of chit for it and then the story dies. By refusing to answer the question, it gives the impression that he's still a birther and allows the press to keep nagging him on it. Is there some benefit for him staying quiet?  Does it play to his supporters somehow? I really don't get it. 

I'm not 100% sure, but my speculation is that he used it for another 30 minutes of free airtime on every cable outlet.  He let it build a little and didn't go too far down the rabbit hole.  Then he let the campaign contradict him a little and said he'd have a "big announcement" today.
Every cable news outlet cut to him live and he spent 30 minutes having veterans endorse him and tell america how great he was and then at the end with a dagger to the heart he mentions that Hillary started the birther movement (which is true) and he finished it.
Now the media is spinning full time trying to say that Hillary didn't start the birther movement.

Being heavily involved in the birther controversy was a negative for Trump, but I think he figured out a way to throw it back on Hillary and make it hard for her to use it against him.  Just my opinion of course, so we'll see how it plays out.

There's plenty to attack Hillary on, starting the birther movement is not one of them. Come on, a fan of Trump should recognize the difference between a supporter of a candidate and the campaign staff of a candidate *cough* David Duke *cough*. Until Assange finds emails showing Hillary spread the rumors, I have to believe this is one time she's innocent.

So if Trump is the candidate of David Duke is Hillary also a KKK candidate?  Will Quigg is the KKK Grand Master of CA and he openly endorses Hillary.  However, Hillary hasn't disavowed him yet so we can only assume she supports the endorsement.  (you see how this game works)

The birther movement is complex and has many parts to it.  Some of it was actually started by Obama and his publicist because they promoted him being from Kenya because they thought it would sell more books, but they changed the language shortly before announcing his presidential run. 
Then Hillary and her supporters took the reigns by suggesting Obama didn't have American ties and that he was a Muslim.  They didn't directly bring up the birth certificate itself, but it was all part of the same line of attack that he "wasn't American enough".  The actual birth certificate portion came later and I think that one did originate in conservative circles.
Here's a CNN article speaking of such http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/06/politics/fact-check-donald-trump-claims-that-hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/index.html

Here's a conservative spin on essentially the same information: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/09/26/washington-post-confirms-hillary-clinton-started-the-birther-movement/

There's no question that Trump was involved in the Birther stuff, but it wasn't until many years later.

The irony of this whole situation is that Hillary's contribution to the birther movement is far more damaging than Trumps.  I'm listening to the radio and looking at news sites and every one of them has articles trying to defend that Hillary didn't start the birther movement which is brilliant chess by Trump.

 

There is zero, absolutely zero, proof that Hillary or her camp had anything to do with the birther movement.

I think you spoke too soon:

Media jump gun on branding Trump claim on Clinton birther role 'false'

“There was a volunteer coordinator, I believe in late 2007, I think in December, one of our volunteer coordinators in one of the counties in Iowa. I don't recall whether they were an actual paid staffer, but they did forward an e-mail that promoted the conspiracy,” she said on CNN, adding that Clinton herself made the decision to fire the person “immediately.”

 

2016-09-17 4:00 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

What's the logic behind Trump not admitting Obama was born in the US? His campaign says he now believes it, his son says he believes it, but he refuses to come out and say it. 

If he wants to move past this and turn the focus on his platform, then just say it and get it over with. He'll take like one day of chit for it and then the story dies. By refusing to answer the question, it gives the impression that he's still a birther and allows the press to keep nagging him on it. Is there some benefit for him staying quiet?  Does it play to his supporters somehow? I really don't get it. 

I'm not 100% sure, but my speculation is that he used it for another 30 minutes of free airtime on every cable outlet.  He let it build a little and didn't go too far down the rabbit hole.  Then he let the campaign contradict him a little and said he'd have a "big announcement" today.
Every cable news outlet cut to him live and he spent 30 minutes having veterans endorse him and tell america how great he was and then at the end with a dagger to the heart he mentions that Hillary started the birther movement (which is true) and he finished it.
Now the media is spinning full time trying to say that Hillary didn't start the birther movement.

Being heavily involved in the birther controversy was a negative for Trump, but I think he figured out a way to throw it back on Hillary and make it hard for her to use it against him.  Just my opinion of course, so we'll see how it plays out.

There's plenty to attack Hillary on, starting the birther movement is not one of them. Come on, a fan of Trump should recognize the difference between a supporter of a candidate and the campaign staff of a candidate *cough* David Duke *cough*. Until Assange finds emails showing Hillary spread the rumors, I have to believe this is one time she's innocent.

So if Trump is the candidate of David Duke is Hillary also a KKK candidate?  Will Quigg is the KKK Grand Master of CA and he openly endorses Hillary.  However, Hillary hasn't disavowed him yet so we can only assume she supports the endorsement.  (you see how this game works)

The birther movement is complex and has many parts to it.  Some of it was actually started by Obama and his publicist because they promoted him being from Kenya because they thought it would sell more books, but they changed the language shortly before announcing his presidential run. 
Then Hillary and her supporters took the reigns by suggesting Obama didn't have American ties and that he was a Muslim.  They didn't directly bring up the birth certificate itself, but it was all part of the same line of attack that he "wasn't American enough".  The actual birth certificate portion came later and I think that one did originate in conservative circles.
Here's a CNN article speaking of such http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/06/politics/fact-check-donald-trump-claims-that-hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/index.html

Here's a conservative spin on essentially the same information: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/09/26/washington-post-confirms-hillary-clinton-started-the-birther-movement/

There's no question that Trump was involved in the Birther stuff, but it wasn't until many years later.

The irony of this whole situation is that Hillary's contribution to the birther movement is far more damaging than Trumps.  I'm listening to the radio and looking at news sites and every one of them has articles trying to defend that Hillary didn't start the birther movement which is brilliant chess by Trump.

 

There is zero, absolutely zero, proof that Hillary or her camp had anything to do with the birther movement.

I think you spoke too soon:

Media jump gun on branding Trump claim on Clinton birther role 'false'

“There was a volunteer coordinator, I believe in late 2007, I think in December, one of our volunteer coordinators in one of the counties in Iowa. I don't recall whether they were an actual paid staffer, but they did forward an e-mail that promoted the conspiracy,” she said on CNN, adding that Clinton herself made the decision to fire the person “immediately.”

 

A volunteer coordinator and a guy saying he was told by a guy almost a decade ago. That's your proof? I hope I'm never on a trial where you're a juror. LOL

She absolutely spread the word that Obama was a Muslim. That he was raised overseas and in Hawaii, therefore he doesn't have "American roots". Trump can rightfully attack her on those points. But there is not a shred of evidence that says she ever participated in the birther nonsense. Maybe proof will come out. I'm sure Congress will throw that in to their next investigation of HRC. But for now, it's just another baseless accusation by Trump. No different than when he threw out there that Cruz's father was involved in the JFK assassination. He's throws everything at the wall and waits to see what his followers believe.

2016-09-19 8:32 AM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

What's the logic behind Trump not admitting Obama was born in the US? His campaign says he now believes it, his son says he believes it, but he refuses to come out and say it. 

If he wants to move past this and turn the focus on his platform, then just say it and get it over with. He'll take like one day of chit for it and then the story dies. By refusing to answer the question, it gives the impression that he's still a birther and allows the press to keep nagging him on it. Is there some benefit for him staying quiet?  Does it play to his supporters somehow? I really don't get it. 

I'm not 100% sure, but my speculation is that he used it for another 30 minutes of free airtime on every cable outlet.  He let it build a little and didn't go too far down the rabbit hole.  Then he let the campaign contradict him a little and said he'd have a "big announcement" today.
Every cable news outlet cut to him live and he spent 30 minutes having veterans endorse him and tell america how great he was and then at the end with a dagger to the heart he mentions that Hillary started the birther movement (which is true) and he finished it.
Now the media is spinning full time trying to say that Hillary didn't start the birther movement.

Being heavily involved in the birther controversy was a negative for Trump, but I think he figured out a way to throw it back on Hillary and make it hard for her to use it against him.  Just my opinion of course, so we'll see how it plays out.

There's plenty to attack Hillary on, starting the birther movement is not one of them. Come on, a fan of Trump should recognize the difference between a supporter of a candidate and the campaign staff of a candidate *cough* David Duke *cough*. Until Assange finds emails showing Hillary spread the rumors, I have to believe this is one time she's innocent.

So if Trump is the candidate of David Duke is Hillary also a KKK candidate?  Will Quigg is the KKK Grand Master of CA and he openly endorses Hillary.  However, Hillary hasn't disavowed him yet so we can only assume she supports the endorsement.  (you see how this game works)

The birther movement is complex and has many parts to it.  Some of it was actually started by Obama and his publicist because they promoted him being from Kenya because they thought it would sell more books, but they changed the language shortly before announcing his presidential run. 
Then Hillary and her supporters took the reigns by suggesting Obama didn't have American ties and that he was a Muslim.  They didn't directly bring up the birth certificate itself, but it was all part of the same line of attack that he "wasn't American enough".  The actual birth certificate portion came later and I think that one did originate in conservative circles.
Here's a CNN article speaking of such http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/06/politics/fact-check-donald-trump-claims-that-hillary-clinton-started-birther-movement/index.html

Here's a conservative spin on essentially the same information: http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/09/26/washington-post-confirms-hillary-clinton-started-the-birther-movement/

There's no question that Trump was involved in the Birther stuff, but it wasn't until many years later.

The irony of this whole situation is that Hillary's contribution to the birther movement is far more damaging than Trumps.  I'm listening to the radio and looking at news sites and every one of them has articles trying to defend that Hillary didn't start the birther movement which is brilliant chess by Trump.

 

There is zero, absolutely zero, proof that Hillary or her camp had anything to do with the birther movement.

I think you spoke too soon:

Media jump gun on branding Trump claim on Clinton birther role 'false'

“There was a volunteer coordinator, I believe in late 2007, I think in December, one of our volunteer coordinators in one of the counties in Iowa. I don't recall whether they were an actual paid staffer, but they did forward an e-mail that promoted the conspiracy,” she said on CNN, adding that Clinton herself made the decision to fire the person “immediately.”

 

A volunteer coordinator and a guy saying he was told by a guy almost a decade ago. That's your proof? I hope I'm never on a trial where you're a juror. LOL

She absolutely spread the word that Obama was a Muslim. That he was raised overseas and in Hawaii, therefore he doesn't have "American roots". Trump can rightfully attack her on those points. But there is not a shred of evidence that says she ever participated in the birther nonsense. Maybe proof will come out. I'm sure Congress will throw that in to their next investigation of HRC. But for now, it's just another baseless accusation by Trump. No different than when he threw out there that Cruz's father was involved in the JFK assassination. He's throws everything at the wall and waits to see what his followers believe.

lol, Hillary's campaign manager confirmed the staffer on Friday so it definitely happened.  I agree that it's just a low level dude and there's people on all sides that play in the fringe areas so I don't really blame that aspect on Hillary.  She was doing everything she could to win and as a crafty politician she was peddling in the areas she felt that would help her such as planting the muslim garb picture to drudge etc.

The other piece as I mentioned earlier is that the "birther" and the "muslim" stories are very much interwoven so it's difficult to separate them.  No matter what the facts are in the matter Trump did a masterful job of deflecting what was a legitimate wild card Hillary had to use against him.  When everything started going to poop her and her staff started up the drone of "Trump was a birther" to garner more support.  Trump took it and shoved it so far down her throat she doesn't even know what hit her and that entire line of attack is completely dead now.  Absolute brilliance

2016-09-19 10:55 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Trump

He was elected POTUS in 2008 and it took 3 years to produce a birth certificate? 

I could not get a passport for myself or my children without a valid, raised-seal, birth certificate!  How can one become POTUS and not produce a birth certificate? 

Even if you lost it, you can send $20 to the state and request another one......so I never really understood this issue.

Why did it take 3 years?  Guess no one cares about that......maybe he was busy......

 



2016-09-19 11:13 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Rogillio

He was elected POTUS in 2008 and it took 3 years to produce a birth certificate? 

I could not get a passport for myself or my children without a valid, raised-seal, birth certificate!  How can one become POTUS and not produce a birth certificate? 

Even if you lost it, you can send $20 to the state and request another one......so I never really understood this issue.

Why did it take 3 years?  Guess no one cares about that......maybe he was busy......

 

There are three requirements to be President.

1. Be a natural born US Citizen2. Be at least 35 years of age
3. have lived in the US for at least 14 years

The interesting part of it all is that there's really no legal precedent for the first one.  Even taking Obama being born in the US as fact there are still interesting legal questions about his eligibility due to a lack of case law.  This site as an example says that if you are born abroad you have to have two american parents in order to be a natural born citizen.  That's not the case with Obama of course, but that was one interpretation which caused people to push the birther movement.
I personally believe that no matter where you are born in the world, if you have one american parent then you become a citizen so you don't have to be naturalized.  If you don't have to be naturalized then you are a natural born citizen at birth.  So in Obama's case it was irrelevant if he was born in Kenya or the US IMHO.

One thing I found interesting during the 2008 campaign was how the opposing candidate is the only one with legal standing to challenge.  There were dozens of lawsuits filed against Obama to prove he was a citizen/born in the US and they were all tossed out for lack of standing.  Meaning the person filing the suit wasn't a party of interest so they couldn't file a case.

 

2016-09-19 12:06 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Rogillio

He was elected POTUS in 2008 and it took 3 years to produce a birth certificate? 

I could not get a passport for myself or my children without a valid, raised-seal, birth certificate!  How can one become POTUS and not produce a birth certificate? 

Even if you lost it, you can send $20 to the state and request another one......so I never really understood this issue.

Why did it take 3 years?  Guess no one cares about that......maybe he was busy......

 

There are three requirements to be President.

1. Be a natural born US Citizen2. Be at least 35 years of age
3. have lived in the US for at least 14 years

The interesting part of it all is that there's really no legal precedent for the first one.  Even taking Obama being born in the US as fact there are still interesting legal questions about his eligibility due to a lack of case law.  This site as an example says that if you are born abroad you have to have two american parents in order to be a natural born citizen.  That's not the case with Obama of course, but that was one interpretation which caused people to push the birther movement.
I personally believe that no matter where you are born in the world, if you have one american parent then you become a citizen so you don't have to be naturalized.  If you don't have to be naturalized then you are a natural born citizen at birth.  So in Obama's case it was irrelevant if he was born in Kenya or the US IMHO.

One thing I found interesting during the 2008 campaign was how the opposing candidate is the only one with legal standing to challenge.  There were dozens of lawsuits filed against Obama to prove he was a citizen/born in the US and they were all tossed out for lack of standing.  Meaning the person filing the suit wasn't a party of interest so they couldn't file a case.

 

 

I totally agree.  If you come out of the womb of an American citizen, you should be a US citizen....even if you happen to be on vacation in China.  But, that works the other way too.  If his daddy was Kenyan, then he is also a Kenyan citizen. I'm not sure if dual citizenship disqualifies him or not....he would probably have to renounce his Kenyan citizenship.

I have yet to hear a valid reason why it took 3 years to produce the document.  Makes me wonder how he got a US Passport without a birth certificate.

 

 

 

 

 

2016-09-19 12:26 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Rogillio

He was elected POTUS in 2008 and it took 3 years to produce a birth certificate? 

I could not get a passport for myself or my children without a valid, raised-seal, birth certificate!  How can one become POTUS and not produce a birth certificate? 

Even if you lost it, you can send $20 to the state and request another one......so I never really understood this issue.

Why did it take 3 years?  Guess no one cares about that......maybe he was busy......

 

There are three requirements to be President.

1. Be a natural born US Citizen2. Be at least 35 years of age
3. have lived in the US for at least 14 years

The interesting part of it all is that there's really no legal precedent for the first one.  Even taking Obama being born in the US as fact there are still interesting legal questions about his eligibility due to a lack of case law.  This site as an example says that if you are born abroad you have to have two american parents in order to be a natural born citizen.  That's not the case with Obama of course, but that was one interpretation which caused people to push the birther movement.
I personally believe that no matter where you are born in the world, if you have one american parent then you become a citizen so you don't have to be naturalized.  If you don't have to be naturalized then you are a natural born citizen at birth.  So in Obama's case it was irrelevant if he was born in Kenya or the US IMHO.

One thing I found interesting during the 2008 campaign was how the opposing candidate is the only one with legal standing to challenge.  There were dozens of lawsuits filed against Obama to prove he was a citizen/born in the US and they were all tossed out for lack of standing.  Meaning the person filing the suit wasn't a party of interest so they couldn't file a case.

 

 

I totally agree.  If you come out of the womb of an American citizen, you should be a US citizen....even if you happen to be on vacation in China.  But, that works the other way too.  If his daddy was Kenyan, then he is also a Kenyan citizen. I'm not sure if dual citizenship disqualifies him or not....he would probably have to renounce his Kenyan citizenship.

I have yet to hear a valid reason why it took 3 years to produce the document.  Makes me wonder how he got a US Passport without a birth certificate.

Dude, even Trump has given up on the birther conspiracy. It's time to let it go.

It did not take him 3 years. In 2008, he produced the certificate of live birth that was given to him by the state of Hawaii. The same document that Hawaii gives to all of their residents who requests a birth certificate, the same document that Hawaiians use to get their drivers license and passports, the same document that the federal government and all courts recognize as a valid form of identification for citizens born in the state of Hawaii. That was good enough for McCain and the GOP.

Speaking of Trump, what caused him to finally reverse his birther position? As recently as last year, he was still saying that he thought Obama's long form birth certificate was fake. So what happened between then and now to convince him otherwise? Shockingly, that was mentioned in his big press announcement the other night.

2016-09-19 1:04 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Rogillio

He was elected POTUS in 2008 and it took 3 years to produce a birth certificate? 

I could not get a passport for myself or my children without a valid, raised-seal, birth certificate!  How can one become POTUS and not produce a birth certificate? 

Even if you lost it, you can send $20 to the state and request another one......so I never really understood this issue.

Why did it take 3 years?  Guess no one cares about that......maybe he was busy......

 

There are three requirements to be President.

1. Be a natural born US Citizen2. Be at least 35 years of age
3. have lived in the US for at least 14 years

The interesting part of it all is that there's really no legal precedent for the first one.  Even taking Obama being born in the US as fact there are still interesting legal questions about his eligibility due to a lack of case law.  This site as an example says that if you are born abroad you have to have two american parents in order to be a natural born citizen.  That's not the case with Obama of course, but that was one interpretation which caused people to push the birther movement.
I personally believe that no matter where you are born in the world, if you have one american parent then you become a citizen so you don't have to be naturalized.  If you don't have to be naturalized then you are a natural born citizen at birth.  So in Obama's case it was irrelevant if he was born in Kenya or the US IMHO.

One thing I found interesting during the 2008 campaign was how the opposing candidate is the only one with legal standing to challenge.  There were dozens of lawsuits filed against Obama to prove he was a citizen/born in the US and they were all tossed out for lack of standing.  Meaning the person filing the suit wasn't a party of interest so they couldn't file a case.

 

 

I totally agree.  If you come out of the womb of an American citizen, you should be a US citizen....even if you happen to be on vacation in China.  But, that works the other way too.  If his daddy was Kenyan, then he is also a Kenyan citizen. I'm not sure if dual citizenship disqualifies him or not....he would probably have to renounce his Kenyan citizenship.

I have yet to hear a valid reason why it took 3 years to produce the document.  Makes me wonder how he got a US Passport without a birth certificate.

 

 

 

 

 

At birth Obama was a US Citizen and a Kenyan Citizen which was a British Territory so he was also a British Subject.
When his mother married Lolo Soretoro and moved to Indonesia Obama also became a citizen of Indonesia.  All politics aside, he has an amazing story.

He never lost his US Citizenship so these are all just fun facts and don't matter.

2016-09-19 1:12 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Rogillio

He was elected POTUS in 2008 and it took 3 years to produce a birth certificate? 

I could not get a passport for myself or my children without a valid, raised-seal, birth certificate!  How can one become POTUS and not produce a birth certificate? 

Even if you lost it, you can send $20 to the state and request another one......so I never really understood this issue.

Why did it take 3 years?  Guess no one cares about that......maybe he was busy......

 

There are three requirements to be President.

1. Be a natural born US Citizen2. Be at least 35 years of age
3. have lived in the US for at least 14 years

The interesting part of it all is that there's really no legal precedent for the first one.  Even taking Obama being born in the US as fact there are still interesting legal questions about his eligibility due to a lack of case law.  This site as an example says that if you are born abroad you have to have two american parents in order to be a natural born citizen.  That's not the case with Obama of course, but that was one interpretation which caused people to push the birther movement.
I personally believe that no matter where you are born in the world, if you have one american parent then you become a citizen so you don't have to be naturalized.  If you don't have to be naturalized then you are a natural born citizen at birth.  So in Obama's case it was irrelevant if he was born in Kenya or the US IMHO.

One thing I found interesting during the 2008 campaign was how the opposing candidate is the only one with legal standing to challenge.  There were dozens of lawsuits filed against Obama to prove he was a citizen/born in the US and they were all tossed out for lack of standing.  Meaning the person filing the suit wasn't a party of interest so they couldn't file a case.

 

 

I totally agree.  If you come out of the womb of an American citizen, you should be a US citizen....even if you happen to be on vacation in China.  But, that works the other way too.  If his daddy was Kenyan, then he is also a Kenyan citizen. I'm not sure if dual citizenship disqualifies him or not....he would probably have to renounce his Kenyan citizenship.

I have yet to hear a valid reason why it took 3 years to produce the document.  Makes me wonder how he got a US Passport without a birth certificate.

Dude, even Trump has given up on the birther conspiracy. It's time to let it go.

It did not take him 3 years. In 2008, he produced the certificate of live birth that was given to him by the state of Hawaii. The same document that Hawaii gives to all of their residents who requests a birth certificate, the same document that Hawaiians use to get their drivers license and passports, the same document that the federal government and all courts recognize as a valid form of identification for citizens born in the state of Hawaii. That was good enough for McCain and the GOP.

Speaking of Trump, what caused him to finally reverse his birther position? As recently as last year, he was still saying that he thought Obama's long form birth certificate was fake. So what happened between then and now to convince him otherwise? Shockingly, that was mentioned in his big press announcement the other night.

I think you're the only one talking about Birther stuff.  Neither of us are saying he wasn't born here.  :-P

Hillary played her birther card and it backfired horribly.  The ship has sailed and even she and her campaign (cough media) have dropped it because it backfired so badly. 

Now, back on the actual birther subject I do have a theory about the whole thing (purely for entertainment purposes).

Obama was born in Hawaii with multiple citizenships and then moved to Indonesia with his mom.  We know he had passports from other countries (likely Indonesia) because he spoke of traveling to Pakistan while in college when it was a banned country for US travel.  Meaning, he couldn't have traveled on a US passport. 
He managed to get into some amazing schools for college and if I were in his shoes (remember, just dumb 18 year old kid stuff) I would have played the international citizen card to the fullest extent for scholarship purposes.
I feel the initial concern over releasing school records (which he never did) and whole cloud was purely a political decision to prevent some potentially embarrassing stuff from getting out with scholarships or a fib about citizenship.  Then once the birther thing became a real thing of the tinfoil hat variety it became useful to him in his campaign so he didn't necessarily shut it down right away even though he could have.

I truly was fascinated on the topic and followed it closely, but never felt Obama wasn't eligible for the office.



2016-09-19 1:17 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Speaking of Trump, what caused him to finally reverse his birther position?

 

No offense but this is the dumbest question I've seen the media asking over and over and over the last few days.  Let me answer it for him:

 

I have NOT reversed by beliefs at all!  I am simply giving this fight up as a lost cause.  I remain unconvinced he was born in HI but at this point, it is moot.  I am doing this for political expediency in much the same way that Hillary and Obama both changed their beliefs about homosexual marriage.  Why did no one hound them about 'what caused you to believe marriage is no longer about a man and a woman' as  you both had said over and over?  Why exactly caused you to change your position?  At what moment did the light go on in our lil haid? 

 

 

2016-09-19 1:42 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Rogillio

 

Speaking of Trump, what caused him to finally reverse his birther position?

 

No offense but this is the dumbest question I've seen the media asking over and over and over the last few days.  Let me answer it for him:

 

I have NOT reversed by beliefs at all!  I am simply giving this fight up as a lost cause.  I remain unconvinced he was born in HI but at this point, it is moot.  I am doing this for political expediency in much the same way that Hillary and Obama both changed their beliefs about homosexual marriage.  Why did no one hound them about 'what caused you to believe marriage is no longer about a man and a woman' as  you both had said over and over?  Why exactly caused you to change your position?  At what moment did the light go on in our lil haid? 

 

 

Trump said "President Obama was born in the United States — period" and that's what you think he meant? That's hilarious. He even punctuated his statement with miniature hand gestures and took credit for ending the controversy. 

Everyone knows why Hillary flip flopped on gay marriage. The country's overall attitude, especially in the younger generation, is changing and she cares more about votes than her own personal convictions. She was criticized by plenty of conservatives over it. 

Probably not a good move for Trump to question Hillary's changing positions though, given how he's basically contradicted himself on every single issue there is except for his wall. NBC has an amazingly comprehensive list of him arguing with himself. Sure, it's a liberal website. But they're all Trump's quotes. Unless...maybe...THEY DON'T GET SARCASM? http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801

2016-09-19 1:49 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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That article was really confusing.  I didn't read all of it, but after reading through the first 20 lines or so I didn't see any conflicts, just different verbage of saying the same thing.  Maybe it was just the writers style, but I was genuinely confused.  (or maybe I'm just dumb)   lol

2016-09-19 2:28 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Originally posted by tuwood

That article was really confusing.  I didn't read all of it, but after reading through the first 20 lines or so I didn't see any conflicts, just different verbage of saying the same thing.  Maybe it was just the writers style, but I was genuinely confused.  (or maybe I'm just dumb)   lol

Really? Because I can honestly say I have absolutely no idea what Trump wants to do with the 11 million illegal aliens currently living here. He wants to deport all the criminals, I got that. But the rest; deport them, amnesty, just ignore them and let them leave here illegally so long as the're not breaking the law?

And that's just the first topic. His Muslim ban, minimum wage, troops in the middle east, climate change, the national debt, gun free zones, healthcare. He's contradicted himself on everything. 

2016-09-19 2:41 PM
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Originally posted by Rogillio
 

No offense but this is the dumbest question I've seen the media asking over and over and over the last few days.  Let me answer it for him:

 

I have NOT reversed by beliefs at all!  I am simply giving this fight up as a lost cause.  I remain unconvinced he was born in HI but at this point, it is moot.  I am doing this for political expediency in much the same way that Hillary and Obama both changed their beliefs about homosexual marriage.  Why did no one hound them about 'what caused you to believe marriage is no longer about a man and a woman' as  you both had said over and over?  Why exactly caused you to change your position?  At what moment did the light go on in our lil haid?  

At least he's an equal-opportunity birther.  He went after Ted Cruz the same way :)



Edited by spudone 2016-09-19 2:41 PM


2016-09-19 3:01 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

That article was really confusing.  I didn't read all of it, but after reading through the first 20 lines or so I didn't see any conflicts, just different verbage of saying the same thing.  Maybe it was just the writers style, but I was genuinely confused.  (or maybe I'm just dumb)   lol

Really? Because I can honestly say I have absolutely no idea what Trump wants to do with the 11 million illegal aliens currently living here. He wants to deport all the criminals, I got that. But the rest; deport them, amnesty, just ignore them and let them leave here illegally so long as the're not breaking the law?

And that's just the first topic. His Muslim ban, minimum wage, troops in the middle east, climate change, the national debt, gun free zones, healthcare. He's contradicted himself on everything. 

Did you listen to his immigration speech?  He spelled it out pretty clear and to the best of my knowledge he's been very consistent throughout the campaign.
I think the issue is that he was very high level early in the campaign so the media came out with the deportation forces and mass elian gonzolas events type scenario which was just fantasy.
He's taking it in stages with the obvious first step of securing the border to stop the inflow.  Then he'll target the criminal element where we will immediately send back who has broken our laws.  He's then going after employers to require e-verify so that they can't legally hire "illegals" anymore.  At that point the illegals that are here will likely self deport due to the inability to find work.

He also added that we will take a look at our current immigration process and adjust it accordingly to what's in the best interest of America.

We can certainly agree/disagree on the contribution of illegal immigration and what to do with it, but I think Trumps been very consistent on that particular subject.

2016-09-19 3:20 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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haha, friend just posted this on Facebook.  The birth certificate part made me laugh out loud.

https://www.facebook.com/rayrafent/videos/840348922764509/

 

2016-09-19 3:43 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

That article was really confusing.  I didn't read all of it, but after reading through the first 20 lines or so I didn't see any conflicts, just different verbage of saying the same thing.  Maybe it was just the writers style, but I was genuinely confused.  (or maybe I'm just dumb)   lol

Really? Because I can honestly say I have absolutely no idea what Trump wants to do with the 11 million illegal aliens currently living here. He wants to deport all the criminals, I got that. But the rest; deport them, amnesty, just ignore them and let them leave here illegally so long as the're not breaking the law?

And that's just the first topic. His Muslim ban, minimum wage, troops in the middle east, climate change, the national debt, gun free zones, healthcare. He's contradicted himself on everything. 

Did you listen to his immigration speech?  He spelled it out pretty clear and to the best of my knowledge he's been very consistent throughout the campaign.
I think the issue is that he was very high level early in the campaign so the media came out with the deportation forces and mass elian gonzolas events type scenario which was just fantasy.
He's taking it in stages with the obvious first step of securing the border to stop the inflow.  Then he'll target the criminal element where we will immediately send back who has broken our laws.  He's then going after employers to require e-verify so that they can't legally hire "illegals" anymore.  At that point the illegals that are here will likely self deport due to the inability to find work.

He also added that we will take a look at our current immigration process and adjust it accordingly to what's in the best interest of America.

We can certainly agree/disagree on the contribution of illegal immigration and what to do with it, but I think Trumps been very consistent on that particular subject.

July 2015 "We have a law, right? You're supposed to come in legally. I would get people out, and I would have an expedited way of getting them back in to the country so they can be LEGAL."

November 2015 "You're going to have a deportation force, and you're going to do it humanely, and you're going to bring the country"...yada yada build a wall, wall will have a door..."They're going back where they came. If they came from a certain country, they're going to be brought back to that country. That's the way it's supposed to be. Now they can come back, but they have to come back legally." 

What he wanted to do last year is not consistent with what he's said recently. And you can't blame the media when they're using his words.

 

2016-09-19 3:54 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Rogillio
 

No offense but this is the dumbest question I've seen the media asking over and over and over the last few days.  Let me answer it for him:

 

I have NOT reversed by beliefs at all!  I am simply giving this fight up as a lost cause.  I remain unconvinced he was born in HI but at this point, it is moot.  I am doing this for political expediency in much the same way that Hillary and Obama both changed their beliefs about homosexual marriage.  Why did no one hound them about 'what caused you to believe marriage is no longer about a man and a woman' as  you both had said over and over?  Why exactly caused you to change your position?  At what moment did the light go on in our lil haid?  

At least he's an equal-opportunity birther.  He went after Ted Cruz the same way

 

But....but....I thought the birth issue was racist....

 

2016-09-19 3:55 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Trump

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by tuwood

That article was really confusing.  I didn't read all of it, but after reading through the first 20 lines or so I didn't see any conflicts, just different verbage of saying the same thing.  Maybe it was just the writers style, but I was genuinely confused.  (or maybe I'm just dumb)   lol

Really? Because I can honestly say I have absolutely no idea what Trump wants to do with the 11 million illegal aliens currently living here. He wants to deport all the criminals, I got that. But the rest; deport them, amnesty, just ignore them and let them leave here illegally so long as the're not breaking the law?

And that's just the first topic. His Muslim ban, minimum wage, troops in the middle east, climate change, the national debt, gun free zones, healthcare. He's contradicted himself on everything. 

Did you listen to his immigration speech?  He spelled it out pretty clear and to the best of my knowledge he's been very consistent throughout the campaign.
I think the issue is that he was very high level early in the campaign so the media came out with the deportation forces and mass elian gonzolas events type scenario which was just fantasy.
He's taking it in stages with the obvious first step of securing the border to stop the inflow.  Then he'll target the criminal element where we will immediately send back who has broken our laws.  He's then going after employers to require e-verify so that they can't legally hire "illegals" anymore.  At that point the illegals that are here will likely self deport due to the inability to find work.

He also added that we will take a look at our current immigration process and adjust it accordingly to what's in the best interest of America.

We can certainly agree/disagree on the contribution of illegal immigration and what to do with it, but I think Trumps been very consistent on that particular subject.

July 2015 "We have a law, right? You're supposed to come in legally. I would get people out, and I would have an expedited way of getting them back in to the country so they can be LEGAL."

November 2015 "You're going to have a deportation force, and you're going to do it humanely, and you're going to bring the country"...yada yada build a wall, wall will have a door..."They're going back where they came. If they came from a certain country, they're going to be brought back to that country. That's the way it's supposed to be. Now they can come back, but they have to come back legally." 

What he wanted to do last year is not consistent with what he's said recently. And you can't blame the media when they're using his words.

 

Hey, I really admire you're desire here but the line of attack is weak at best and it won't work against him.

I can't remember what show I was listening to earlier today but somebody said that this year is really unique because Hillary has a political playbook with hundreds of well proven plays that have worked year after year.  She then started the game with Trump who is throwing plays at her that she's never seen before but she hasn't adjusted and keeps running the tried and true plays that aren't working.
The "he said this word and now says that word" kind of attacks are old playbook and Trump is immune from those attacks.  It may or may not be right, but it's the reality of this election.
Certainly he has said various things throughout the campaign such as the height of the wall as an example.  Sometimes he was exaggerating but often he presented it as serious and the joke was that the wall kept getting bigger every week.  Nobody cares about the height of the wall, they only care about the wall.
Similar to getting the illegals out of the country, people don't really care what it looks like or what he's said they just want the rule of law to be enforced and Trump has always been consistent in that area. 



2016-09-19 3:56 PM
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Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Rogillio
 

No offense but this is the dumbest question I've seen the media asking over and over and over the last few days.  Let me answer it for him:

 

I have NOT reversed by beliefs at all!  I am simply giving this fight up as a lost cause.  I remain unconvinced he was born in HI but at this point, it is moot.  I am doing this for political expediency in much the same way that Hillary and Obama both changed their beliefs about homosexual marriage.  Why did no one hound them about 'what caused you to believe marriage is no longer about a man and a woman' as  you both had said over and over?  Why exactly caused you to change your position?  At what moment did the light go on in our lil haid?  

At least he's an equal-opportunity birther.  He went after Ted Cruz the same way

We all know Hillary started the Cruz birther movement.  ;-

2016-09-19 3:57 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Rogillio
 

No offense but this is the dumbest question I've seen the media asking over and over and over the last few days.  Let me answer it for him:

 

I have NOT reversed by beliefs at all!  I am simply giving this fight up as a lost cause.  I remain unconvinced he was born in HI but at this point, it is moot.  I am doing this for political expediency in much the same way that Hillary and Obama both changed their beliefs about homosexual marriage.  Why did no one hound them about 'what caused you to believe marriage is no longer about a man and a woman' as  you both had said over and over?  Why exactly caused you to change your position?  At what moment did the light go on in our lil haid?  

At least he's an equal-opportunity birther.  He went after Ted Cruz the same way

But....but....I thought the birth issue was racist....

Well Cruz is a Canadian Latino :P

2016-09-19 4:00 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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The "he said this word and now says that word" kind of attacks are old playbook and Trump is immune from those attacks.  It may or may not be right, but it's the reality of this election.

Funny how the people who don't care about Trump's lack of consistency -- are the same ones who were out chanting "flip-flopper" at John Kerry just a few years back.  Not a big deal when it's your candidate though, apparently.

2016-09-19 4:07 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

Originally posted by Rogillio

 

Speaking of Trump, what caused him to finally reverse his birther position?

 

No offense but this is the dumbest question I've seen the media asking over and over and over the last few days.  Let me answer it for him:

 

I have NOT reversed by beliefs at all!  I am simply giving this fight up as a lost cause.  I remain unconvinced he was born in HI but at this point, it is moot.  I am doing this for political expediency in much the same way that Hillary and Obama both changed their beliefs about homosexual marriage.  Why did no one hound them about 'what caused you to believe marriage is no longer about a man and a woman' as  you both had said over and over?  Why exactly caused you to change your position?  At what moment did the light go on in our lil haid? 

 

 

Trump said "President Obama was born in the United States — period" and that's what you think he meant? That's hilarious. He even punctuated his statement with miniature hand gestures and took credit for ending the controversy. 

Everyone knows why Hillary flip flopped on gay marriage. The country's overall attitude, especially in the younger generation, is changing and she cares more about votes than her own personal convictions. She was criticized by plenty of conservatives over it. 

Probably not a good move for Trump to question Hillary's changing positions though, given how he's basically contradicted himself on every single issue there is except for his wall. NBC has an amazingly comprehensive list of him arguing with himself. Sure, it's a liberal website. But they're all Trump's quotes. Unless...maybe...THEY DON'T GET SARCASM? http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801

 

What he meant is, I'm tired of beating this dead horse.  I think he remains unconvinced.  He was left no choice but to capitulate and cry uncle.  Ever had to tell your sibling you are sorry even though you were not sorry?  He did what he had to do politically.  Too much secrecy in BO's past.....maybe he is an Islamic Manchurian candidate set out to destroy the US economically from within?  just kidding.....sort of. 

Point being, people are free to believe what they want to believe.....

Still people who think Roosevelt know about the pending Pear Harbor attack but needed an excuse to get the US into WWII.  Some believe the mafia killed Kennedy and always will.  Some believe Bill Clinton helped NK get a nuclear bomb. 

 

 

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