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Overcoming Adult Onset Swimming (Page 2)
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 2016-02-22 2:00 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran  717   Chicago, USA |  Subject: RE: Overcoming Adult Onset SwimmingOriginally posted by miamiamy I think this is absolutely true. When selecting a swim coach you want somebody who is totally a swimmer and instructor. Somebody who can identify what you're doing and explain to you how to adjust it to improve. There is a huge difference in my opinion between a triathlon coach and a swim instructor (with the obvious exception of the rare triathlon coach who was a swimmer and swim instructor first). I don't know if it matters hugely if it's a tri coach or a swim coach. What matters, far, far, more is to find a coach who actually knows what he/she is talking about and can provide evidence for that (i.e. do fast distance swimmers actually do what he suggests?). Many coaches do neither. Also, when selecting a technique instructor, it is very wise to avoid one that has swum fast since early childhood. Because the important thing for you as a new swimmer is not to just find a super fast swimmer as a coach. Yes, you should find someone who can swim fast, but what you really need is someone who (and here's the kicker) can teach you how to swim faster. And, as you might imagine, this is not so easy to do. Sure, many very fast swimmers who have been training since youth swim great, but they do it almost instinctively, they simply don't know how to closely observe and troubleshoot your technique and then tell you exactly how to correct it. Partly because they've never been down that path themselves. But, often, some fast swimmers who started out as slower swimmers (i.e., they were not trained competitive youth swimmers), but then learned piece-by-piece how to swim very fast often end up being the very best swim technique coaches. Because they know exactly what it took for them to "get" the fundamentals of better technique and better body position. As result, they'll most likely be able to help you in a way that you can rapidly comprehend, fully understand, and then easily execute. Edited by DarkSpeedWorks 2016-02-22 2:01 PM |
| 2016-02-22 3:00 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Extreme Veteran 1648  | Subject: RE: Overcoming Adult Onset Swimming Originally posted by RedCorvette I've always tried to be a student of swimming (I've had a copy of Doc Councilman's The Science of Swimming since it first came out), but never got the instruction or feedback to develop good technique. Funny you mention Doc- his son Brian was one of my USS coaches for a short while. I learned a ton from underwater video analysis with him! Now I have to go buy the book! I agree that the best swimmers are not always the best coaches. I also think that different coaches click with different people. One way to play with stroke- although best with a coach is to tie yourself to a block or ladder with a bungie cord and pay attention to where you are vs the tiles on the bottom. If you change your hand angle do you move further forward vs. the tiles or fall back. If you're really a geek you can play with all of your angles (although this works best over a mirror- but they are hard to find.) I used to spend hours playing with my stroke on a bungie (luckily with a coach and mirror most times). I also think video is a good thing to look at - and it's so easy to get these days. (I need to charge my go pro and do this!) |
| 2016-02-22 5:26 PM in reply to: 0 |
Official BT Coach 18500  Indianapolis, Indiana Gold member | Subject: RE: Overcoming Adult Onset Swimming Originally posted by RedCorvette To Scott's comments, I do think my current masters situation is the exception rather than the rule, and I do feel very fortunate. Mark Mark, Your situation is definitely the exception! And if I remember correctly, didn't she in effect come to you . . . so to speak? Edited by k9car363 2016-02-22 5:50 PM |
| 2016-02-22 5:47 PM in reply to: 0 |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana Gold member | Subject: RE: Overcoming Adult Onset Swimming Originally posted by DarkSpeedWorks . . . Also, when selecting a technique instructor, it is very wise to avoid one that has swum fast since early childhood. Because the important thing for you as a new swimmer is not to just find a super fast swimmer as a coach. Yes, you should find someone who can swim fast, but what you really need is someone who (and here's the kicker) can teach you how to swim faster. And, as you might imagine, this is not so easy to do. Sure, many very fast swimmers who have been training since youth swim great, but they do it almost instinctively, they simply don't know how to closely observe and troubleshoot your technique and then tell you exactly how to correct it . . . I am afraid I have to respectfully take exception to this comment. I was fortunate to have been a VERY fast swimmer. I started swimming when I was about a month shy of 11-years old. I entered my first swim meet at 11 1/2 and won everything I entered so I guess I am that guy you are referring to that swam fast since "early" childhood. I went on to very successful high school, college, and club swimming careers including swimming at the national and international level. Since I hung up my competitive speedo I have successfully coached MANY athletes from the couch to sub 60-second 100 yard freestyle times. I take a special interest in novice, beginner, and back of pack swimmers as they often tend to be the most receptive to stroke technique instruction. I also happen to derive a great deal of enjoyment seeing a new swimmer experience "ah-ha" moments as they develop proper technique. I think a better way to phrase your comment might be something along the lines of "find someone who can observe your stroke deficiencies and can clearly articulate proper technique and communicate what needs to be done to improve your technique" instead of making broad brush statements against all swimmers who happened to be fast when they were young. Being fast and being able to teach proper technique are not mutually exclusive. Just my two cents. Edited by k9car363 2016-02-22 5:49 PM |
| 2016-02-22 6:01 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
| 409 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Overcoming Adult Onset Swimming Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by DarkSpeedWorks . . . Also, when selecting a technique instructor, it is very wise to avoid one that has swum fast since early childhood. Because the important thing for you as a new swimmer is not to just find a super fast swimmer as a coach. Yes, you should find someone who can swim fast, but what you really need is someone who (and here's the kicker) can teach you how to swim faster. And, as you might imagine, this is not so easy to do. Sure, many very fast swimmers who have been training since youth swim great, but they do it almost instinctively, they simply don't know how to closely observe and troubleshoot your technique and then tell you exactly how to correct it . . . I am afraid I have to respectfully take exception to this comment. I was fortunate to have been a VERY fast swimmer. I started swimming when I was about a month shy of 11-years old. I entered my first swim meet at 11 1/2 and won everything I entered so I guess I am that guy you are referring to that swam fast since "early" childhood. I went on to very successful high school, college, and club swimming careers including swimming at the national and international level. Since I hung up my competitive speedo I have successfully coached MANY athletes from the couch to sub 60-second 100 yard freestyle times. I take a special interest in novice, beginner, and back of pack swimmers as they often tend to be the most receptive to stroke technique instruction. I also happen to derive a great deal of enjoyment seeing a new swimmer experience "ah-ha" moments as they develop proper technique. I think a better way to phrase your comment might be something along the lines of "find someone who can observe your stroke deficiencies and can clearly articulate proper technique and communicate what needs to be done to improve your technique" instead of making broad brush statements against all swimmers who happened to be fast when they were young. Being fast and being able to teach proper technique are not mutually exclusive. Just my two cents. I agree with you. I don't think DSW was trying to be rude, but you hear that in every sport. Typically those who are naturally good don't make good coaches because they never had to learn what most people have to. |
| 2016-02-22 7:27 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
Extreme Veteran 717 Chicago, USA | Subject: RE: Overcoming Adult Onset Swimming Originally posted by k9car363 I am afraid I have to respectfully take exception to this comment. I was fortunate to have been a VERY fast swimmer. I started swimming when I was about a month shy of 11-years old. I entered my first swim meet at 11 1/2 and won everything I entered so I guess I am that guy you are referring to that swam fast since "early" childhood. I went on to very successful high school, college, and club swimming careers including swimming at the national and international level. Since I hung up my competitive speedo I have successfully coached MANY athletes from the couch to sub 60-second 100 yard freestyle times. I take a special interest in novice, beginner, and back of pack swimmers as they often tend to be the most receptive to stroke technique instruction. I also happen to derive a great deal of enjoyment seeing a new swimmer experience "ah-ha" moments as they develop proper technique. I think a better way to phrase your comment might be something along the lines of "find someone who can observe your stroke deficiencies and can clearly articulate proper technique and communicate what needs to be done to improve your technique" instead of making broad brush statements against all swimmers who happened to be fast when they were young. Being fast and being able to teach proper technique are not mutually exclusive. Just my two cents. You are clearly an exception to my observation and that is a great thing. My view is just based on what I have seen, but, you're right, it is not a universal rule. Unfortunately, there a just lots of folks out there who do a really poor job of teaching/correcting swim technique and that's not a good thing. I do think that a beginner swimmer should actually try to find a coach who is quite fast. Buy if that coach figured out how to get fast in his/her 20s, 30s, or even 40s (rather than "naturally" is his youth), then that coach might also be a great candidate for helping a beginner get the fundamentals of powerful, low drag swimming. Learning to swim fast as an adult usually means that you have figured out some important things about swimming, and you might be able to pass those on. But nothing is guaranteed. As I posted here, swimmers getting instruction from coaches have to be open minded, have to be engaged, have to ask a lot of questions, and be skeptical. But to every observation about coaches or whatever, there are exceptions and limitation. I completely acknowledge that. It sounds like you might be an excellent swim coach. Keep it up, we sure need more coaches like you. Greg @ dsw |
| 2016-02-22 8:28 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Overcoming Adult Onset Swimming Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by RedCorvette To Scott's comments, I do think my current masters situation is the exception rather than the rule, and I do feel very fortunate. Mark Mark, Your situation is definitely the exception! And if I remember correctly, didn't she in effect come to you . . . so to speak? Sheila T wanted to relocate from Michigan to a destination location where folks would come to her, rather than her having to travel all the time for her clinics and speaking engagements. Sarasota is a good place to be for that purpose, not only for the weather, but also because of the ability to add OWS sessions to her clinic syllabus.. We benefit because we get her on deck the rest of the time. She also actively coaches at all our masters meets. Here she is with a group of us at the Valentine meet in Clearwater, FL. last week. She worked the entire meet, keeping all our splits, SPL's and turnover rates, then debriefed us after each race.
From a triathlon perspective, ST coaches us how to race triathlons, not just finish them. That involves putting in some pretty intensive work at times. Not what everyone is looking for, but she will make you faster if you put in the work. Mark
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| 2016-02-22 8:59 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: Overcoming Adult Onset Swimming Originally posted by k9car363 I'm pretty sure you're selling yourself a little bit short. Isn't there a WR and an Olympics you left out of that? Of which I think you were there with a few people I know and an ex coach if I have the year right. Unless I'm confusing people. Originally posted by DarkSpeedWorks . . . Also, when selecting a technique instructor, it is very wise to avoid one that has swum fast since early childhood. Because the important thing for you as a new swimmer is not to just find a super fast swimmer as a coach. Yes, you should find someone who can swim fast, but what you really need is someone who (and here's the kicker) can teach you how to swim faster. And, as you might imagine, this is not so easy to do. Sure, many very fast swimmers who have been training since youth swim great, but they do it almost instinctively, they simply don't know how to closely observe and troubleshoot your technique and then tell you exactly how to correct it . . . I am afraid I have to respectfully take exception to this comment. I was fortunate to have been a VERY fast swimmer. I started swimming when I was about a month shy of 11-years old. I entered my first swim meet at 11 1/2 and won everything I entered so I guess I am that guy you are referring to that swam fast since "early" childhood. I went on to very successful high school, college, and club swimming careers including swimming at the national and international level. Since I hung up my competitive speedo I have successfully coached MANY athletes from the couch to sub 60-second 100 yard freestyle times. I take a special interest in novice, beginner, and back of pack swimmers as they often tend to be the most receptive to stroke technique instruction. I also happen to derive a great deal of enjoyment seeing a new swimmer experience "ah-ha" moments as they develop proper technique. I think a better way to phrase your comment might be something along the lines of "find someone who can observe your stroke deficiencies and can clearly articulate proper technique and communicate what needs to be done to improve your technique" instead of making broad brush statements against all swimmers who happened to be fast when they were young. Being fast and being able to teach proper technique are not mutually exclusive. Just my two cents. Edited by Goggles Pizzano 2016-02-22 9:00 PM |
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