General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Hilly Course Cassette Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
2016-07-28 8:17 AM

User image

Expert
2852
20005001001001002525
Pfafftown, NC
Subject: Hilly Course Cassette
I have three cassettes I can utilize for an upcoming HIM on a hilly course. I'm not exactly sure of which chainrings I have on my bike, but..............

If I'm running a 12/25 right now, shouldn't an 11/28 be a better climbing option for me (changing nothing else)? Would an 11/32 be even "better"? There's a 1 mi. climb at 6% on this course (at mile 42). I'd like to know I could spin up that thing and not kill myself.

Or....am I overthinking this? If it helps, I weigh 190+#'s.

Edited by nc452010 2016-07-28 8:17 AM


2016-07-28 9:09 AM
in reply to: nc452010

User image

Champion
10650
500050005001002525
Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette

Not knowing anything about your personal climbing strength, if I were running a 12-25 in training, and the hills I rode in training were similar to what you'll see on this course, I'd stay with that for the better gaps between gears. If this course features something a little out of your normal experience zone, then go with the 28 (though you're losing some potentially good gears in the middle). The 32 is something that I find uncomfortable on the road, as the gaps between gears are too large. Yes, that's what I use for gravel events, but those feature extended climbing well into the "up a vertical wall" range on non-paved roads.

2016-07-28 9:16 AM
in reply to: nc452010

User image


754
5001001002525
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
What type of bike will you be on? Some tribikes, including mine, climb like bricks.

To me, 1 mile at 6% doesn't sound very hilly if that is all the course has, but it is all a matter of what you are used to. Are there any other hills on the course? I have an 11 speed, 11-32t that I put on my road bike for Savageman 70 (11-25t was more than enough for the short course), but I take it off after the race. The shifting just isn't as smooth as an 11-25t or 11-28t. You also have to consider that you will probably need a long-cage RD for an 11-32t, but you can probably get away with the one you have if you just go to 11-28t.

The best thing is to just go out and do some hill repeats or hilly rides before the race. If you do switch to an easier gear for the race, let me share some advice that I was given--don't train in it. Never train in your easiest gear. Even if it is on the bike, just test ride it to make sure that everything shifts properly, but don't get used to using it. Teach your legs to suck it up, then if you need it on race day, it will really help.
2016-07-28 9:48 AM
in reply to: nc452010

User image

Master
3887
20001000500100100100252525
Overland Park, KS
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by nc452010

I have three cassettes I can utilize for an upcoming HIM on a hilly course. I'm not exactly sure of which chainrings I have on my bike, but..............

If I'm running a 12/25 right now, shouldn't an 11/28 be a better climbing option for me (changing nothing else)? Would an 11/32 be even "better"? There's a 1 mi. climb at 6% on this course (at mile 42). I'd like to know I could spin up that thing and not kill myself.

Or....am I overthinking this? If it helps, I weigh 190+#'s.


The AVERAGE grade on that 1 mile climb is 6% but what is the MAX grade on that climb? I've done some similar climbs but within that average was a MAX grade of 15 even 20% which can make it difficult with only a 25 on back. But as previously mentioned, what is your climbing ability with that 25? For hilly courses I really appreciate that fact that I have a 28 on the back of my TT bike. I had a 25 on my road bike but this year I switched to a 28 and I'm glad I did it. You will have at least something to gain by having the 28 on the back and really nothing to lose IMO.
2016-07-28 10:03 AM
in reply to: 0


31
25
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
You will need change the chain if you change the cassette. The chain will be too short for it to work with either the 11/28 or the 11/32.

It may work for most of the gears, but you will not be able to shift into the big ring up front and the big ring or 2 (possible 3) in the back. This might not be an issue if you remember that limitation.



Edited by L0ST0NE 2016-07-28 10:10 AM
2016-07-28 10:06 AM
in reply to: reecealan

User image

Master
3887
20001000500100100100252525
Overland Park, KS
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
If your race is IM Augusta 70.3 I don't see any really bad grades on that course. From a couple Garmin GPS routes I saw total climbing is only 1500-1700 feet depending on what device was used (I say "only" because what is considered hilly is relative to what that person has encountered in their cycling career.

I say go with the 28 as I think the 32 will be overkill and the 28 should give you better intermediate gearing capability. You can them just stay with the 28 even for flatter courses as that's what I've been using with pretty good success. You and I are basically the same weight.


2016-07-28 10:07 AM
in reply to: L0ST0NE

User image

Expert
2852
20005001001001002525
Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
I've run the 11/28 (came on the bike) and the 12/25 already this year with the same chain.
2016-07-28 10:09 AM
in reply to: reecealan

User image

Expert
2852
20005001001001002525
Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by reecealan

If your race is IM Augusta 70.3 I don't see any really bad grades on that course. From a couple Garmin GPS routes I saw total climbing is only 1500-1700 feet depending on what device was used (I say "only" because what is considered hilly is relative to what that person has encountered in their cycling career.

I say go with the 28 as I think the 32 will be overkill and the 28 should give you better intermediate gearing capability. You can them just stay with the 28 even for flatter courses as that's what I've been using with pretty good success. You and I are basically the same weight.


I plan to run the 12/25 at Augusta. My main concern is Lake Logan, next weekend.
2016-07-28 10:11 AM
in reply to: nc452010


31
25
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
You are going to fewer teeth on the gears so your chain would be long enough to handle it.
2016-07-28 10:11 AM
in reply to: 0


31
25
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by nc452010

I've run the 11/28 (came on the bike) and the 12/25 already this year with the same chain.


You are going to fewer teeth on the gears so your chain would be long enough to handle it.

If you go to the 11/32 you will have the limitations I was talking about.

Edited by L0ST0NE 2016-07-28 10:14 AM
2016-07-28 10:19 AM
in reply to: L0ST0NE

User image

Expert
2852
20005001001001002525
Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
I appreciate that info. I haven't put the 11/32 on my tri bike.

Thanks.


2016-07-28 11:53 AM
in reply to: nc452010

User image

Member
1748
100050010010025
Exton, PA
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Many bikes today are sold with a 50/34 chainring, some have a 52/36 or a 53/39(used to be standard for years)

No one is going to be able to answer your question but you, we don't know how strong of a rider you are and what kind of hills you are used to.

For me, I have a local hill that is 2 1/2 miles long at a mostly steady 7% grade. I go up that in 39- 23 gear without a problem. So I would leave the 12/25 cassette on. You may be different, most people don't ride as many hills as I do.
2016-07-28 12:02 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Expert
2852
20005001001001002525
Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
My typical 52.1 mi. route has 2,179' gain. That's not a hilly ride, here.

I'm not concerned with whether or not I can go up the hill. I'm concerned about how much energy I could save by utilizing different cassettes.

Edited by nc452010 2016-07-28 12:08 PM
2016-07-28 12:57 PM
in reply to: nc452010

User image

Master
3887
20001000500100100100252525
Overland Park, KS
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by nc452010

Originally posted by reecealan

If your race is IM Augusta 70.3 I don't see any really bad grades on that course. From a couple Garmin GPS routes I saw total climbing is only 1500-1700 feet depending on what device was used (I say "only" because what is considered hilly is relative to what that person has encountered in their cycling career.

I say go with the 28 as I think the 32 will be overkill and the 28 should give you better intermediate gearing capability. You can them just stay with the 28 even for flatter courses as that's what I've been using with pretty good success. You and I are basically the same weight.


I plan to run the 12/25 at Augusta. My main concern is Lake Logan, next weekend.


Ahh got it. Yeah 3,400+ feet of climbing will be some work. Looks like Tango Ln is the climb you're talking about looks like nothing over 15% there. I did IM Branson 70.3 a few years back with a 28 on the back and that was over 5,500 feet of climbing, that thing had 9 Cat5 climbs but nothing really in the double digits in terms of grade. I think you're for sure safe with the 32 but you can probably handle things with the 28.
2016-07-28 1:22 PM
in reply to: reecealan

User image

Expert
2852
20005001001001002525
Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by reecealan

Originally posted by nc452010

Originally posted by reecealan

If your race is IM Augusta 70.3 I don't see any really bad grades on that course. From a couple Garmin GPS routes I saw total climbing is only 1500-1700 feet depending on what device was used (I say "only" because what is considered hilly is relative to what that person has encountered in their cycling career.

I say go with the 28 as I think the 32 will be overkill and the 28 should give you better intermediate gearing capability. You can them just stay with the 28 even for flatter courses as that's what I've been using with pretty good success. You and I are basically the same weight.


I plan to run the 12/25 at Augusta. My main concern is Lake Logan, next weekend.


Ahh got it. Yeah 3,400+ feet of climbing will be some work. Looks like Tango Ln is the climb you're talking about looks like nothing over 15% there. I did IM Branson 70.3 a few years back with a 28 on the back and that was over 5,500 feet of climbing, that thing had 9 Cat5 climbs but nothing really in the double digits in terms of grade. I think you're for sure safe with the 32 but you can probably handle things with the 28.


Are you looking in NC? I think the road I'm talking about is called Stamey Cove.......but, I could absolutely be wrong. Where did you find a profile?

Here's the elevation chart from the race site. The climb I'm interested in is at mile 42.

http://setupevents.com/files/Lake_Logan_Half_plus_Elevation_r2.pdf
2016-07-28 2:31 PM
in reply to: nc452010

User image

Master
3887
20001000500100100100252525
Overland Park, KS
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by nc452010

Originally posted by reecealan

Originally posted by nc452010

Originally posted by reecealan

If your race is IM Augusta 70.3 I don't see any really bad grades on that course. From a couple Garmin GPS routes I saw total climbing is only 1500-1700 feet depending on what device was used (I say "only" because what is considered hilly is relative to what that person has encountered in their cycling career.

I say go with the 28 as I think the 32 will be overkill and the 28 should give you better intermediate gearing capability. You can them just stay with the 28 even for flatter courses as that's what I've been using with pretty good success. You and I are basically the same weight.


I plan to run the 12/25 at Augusta. My main concern is Lake Logan, next weekend.


Ahh got it. Yeah 3,400+ feet of climbing will be some work. Looks like Tango Ln is the climb you're talking about looks like nothing over 15% there. I did IM Branson 70.3 a few years back with a 28 on the back and that was over 5,500 feet of climbing, that thing had 9 Cat5 climbs but nothing really in the double digits in terms of grade. I think you're for sure safe with the 32 but you can probably handle things with the 28.


Are you looking in NC? I think the road I'm talking about is called Stamey Cove.......but, I could absolutely be wrong. Where did you find a profile?

Here's the elevation chart from the race site. The climb I'm interested in is at mile 42.

http://setupevents.com/files/Lake_Logan_Half_plus_Elevation_r2.pdf


Whenever I do out of town races I always do an Event lookup on Strava. This will give a nice list of riders who have done the course and gives you elevation gain info from different devices (920XT, Edge 500 etc.).

Here's a link to some random rider who did the course.
https://www.strava.com/activities/365061527

This is where I saw a segment called Tango Ln which looks like the one you're talking about. I like how Strava lets you do some course "recon" so to speak.


2016-07-28 2:58 PM
in reply to: reecealan

User image

Extreme Veteran
660
5001002525
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Augusta I would the 11/25 but if the course is really hilly I have no problem using the 11/32 I used at the milkman tri in madison wi as well Ocean side HIM and Madison IM. you will find some holes when you are on flat ground so its always a trade off. I love spining up hills .at 95rpm when the others are grinding away to get up the hill.

it always amazes me when racing the number of people strugglig to get up a hill but still have more gears left to use.

also make sure that your rear derailer supports the 11/32 most do not support it
2016-07-28 5:44 PM
in reply to: BuckHamilton

User image


216
100100
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by BuckHamilton

also make sure that your rear derailer supports the 11/32 most do not support it


Yeah, the decision is probably made for you by the limitations of the rear derailleur. A short cage (SS in Shimano parlance) derailleur typically has a maximum rear cog size of 28 teeth. A long cage (GS in Shimano parlance) has a minimum large-cog tooth count requirement of 28.

It would be unusual for a TT bike to have a long cage derailleur.
2016-07-28 7:31 PM
in reply to: gary p

User image

Expert
2852
20005001001001002525
Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by gary p

Originally posted by BuckHamilton

also make sure that your rear derailer supports the 11/32 most do not support it


Yeah, the decision is probably made for you by the limitations of the rear derailleur. A short cage (SS in Shimano parlance) derailleur typically has a maximum rear cog size of 28 teeth. A long cage (GS in Shimano parlance) has a minimum large-cog tooth count requirement of 28.

It would be unusual for a TT bike to have a long cage derailleur.


I'm no bike expert (obviously), but this was a concern when I bought my road bike (being able to switch the cassettes. I was told my TT bike (Cervelo P2 - 2015) has a long cage RD.
2016-07-29 7:46 AM
in reply to: nc452010


467
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Just went to the Cervelo website an looked at the pics of the current P2. It has the standard, not long cage rear derailer that would only work with up to a 28 tooth gear. You can also google image gs vs ss rear ders and compare the pics to what you have . . .
2016-07-29 8:38 AM
in reply to: MikeD1

User image

Expert
2852
20005001001001002525
Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by MikeD1

Just went to the Cervelo website an looked at the pics of the current P2. It has the standard, not long cage rear derailer that would only work with up to a 28 tooth gear. You can also google image gs vs ss rear ders and compare the pics to what you have . . .


Mine looks just like this one.





(P2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
P2.jpg (153KB - 2 downloads)


2016-07-29 11:13 AM
in reply to: nc452010


467
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
My eyes aren't what they used to be, but that "looks" like a long cage der . . .
2016-07-29 1:37 PM
in reply to: MikeD1

User image

Extreme Veteran
660
5001002525
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
I would agree
2016-07-29 1:39 PM
in reply to: BuckHamilton

User image

Extreme Veteran
660
5001002525
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
on the short one there very little space between the 2 little cogs
2016-07-29 4:20 PM
in reply to: 0

User image


216
100100
Subject: RE: Hilly Course Cassette
Originally posted by MikeD1

My eyes aren't what they used to be, but that "looks" like a long cage der . . .


I agree. Kinda surprised your bike hasn't spontaneously erupted into flames from running the 12-25 cassette on a long cage derailleur

When in doubt, run the wider range. The consequences for being wrong are less severe. I'd rather risk having a few wider-than-optimal gaps than risk blowing up on a climb.

Edited by gary p 2016-07-29 4:21 PM
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Hilly Course Cassette Rss Feed  
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
RELATED POSTS

Tri Bike for Hilly Courses

Started by JohnP_NY
Views: 1398 Posts: 22

2009-10-09 6:24 PM GordyP

Hilly course + clip ons = not that useful?

Started by merlin2375
Views: 781 Posts: 11

2009-07-06 8:29 PM tcovert

pacing hilly courses

Started by newbz
Views: 940 Posts: 14

2009-03-19 7:36 PM newbz

Wheels for hilly course?

Started by maubueno
Views: 1108 Posts: 7

2008-08-14 8:13 PM maubueno

Muskoka 70.3 Bike Course-How Hilly???

Started by dayooper951
Views: 4409 Posts: 12

2009-07-20 9:21 AM juniperjen
RELATED ARTICLES
date : October 12, 2011
author : Amy Kuitse
comments : 0
How to train for hills when you don't have any hills to train on
 
date : November 5, 2008
author : FitWerx
comments : 0
Is gear overlap from the big to small ring a consideration? Will the ratio increment of the compact setup be very beneficial to my riding?
date : July 5, 2005
author : KevinKonczak
comments : 0
After you have established the Ironman goal, the most important factor outside of the training is which race to choose? What is your best sort of course, hilly, rolling, flat?