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2017-04-10 8:54 AM
in reply to: jessicarandall


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Subject: RE: Lap swimming etiquette
I don't have problems at my gym....
except they started doing a water aerobics class on Saturday morning...at a time when I know a lot of triathletes are using the pool.
I can tell by the watches, swim caps from races, and all the little laminated flip books they keep looking at that I presume are training plans.

At first, I was like..."OK, it's their gym too." And there were about 8 of them. Now, it's 2-3.....and the instructor insists on taking all the lane floats out. I would imagine 2-3 people could manage with just one lane. Let alone the entire pool. Plus, she's kind of scary.

At least leave one lane available.


2017-04-10 11:01 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Lap swimming etiquette

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Jwse30
Originally posted by Left Brain

Oh.....you haven't really seen anything until you spend some time around "swim parents".  There is no creature on earth more annoying.....even triathletes absolutely pale in comparison.

As a parent who has a child on an age group swim team, I will have to respectfully disagree. And before I get accused of not seeing what you are talking about because I am one of them, I rarely sit in the stands during meets (or practices for that matter). I officiate most meets I attend, and if I stay for more than a few minutes for practice, it's because I work the help desk. I have seen a few parents that really aren't doing their kids or anyone else any favors by behaving the way they do. Up to a few years ago, my daughter also did ballet dancing. Those moms are just... well, this is a family forum. I've heard cheerleader moms are worse yet, but dance moms were enough for me. They made the swim parents who give me grief for DQing their kid for doing the wrong stroke ("it was just for a few feet!") seem like angels. And to get off on a quick tangent, as an official, I never DQ a swimmer; I witness them DQ themselves and then I tattle on them. I will also be the first to admit that for every infraction I see, I likely miss 3 or 4. At most meets, we are watching 3 lanes for half the pool and your eyes can't be everywhere J White

Ah yes, the official koolaid line of a swim official.   The craziest officiating I ever did was for a meet of para athletes.  I was just lost trying to figure out what was a violation and what wasn't.  For those who wonder, the rules are exactly the same......go try to work what is a stroke violation out for a kid with one arm.  In the end, I wasn't about to DQ anyone swimming a 1:05-1:10 100 with one or or leg. I was in awe of those kids.

 

Article 105 of the USA Swimming Rules is actually pretty specific about how you should judge permanently disabled or impaired athletes.  In very simple terms, if a limb is either permanently impaired or missing, then you don't judge it.  

I've worked a number of meets with physically & mentally challenged swimmers, both kids and adults.  The coaches normally will meet with us ahead of time to discuss any challenged swimmers.  In some cases we can make accommodations, for example, switching lanes for hearing-impaired swimmers so they can better see the starter's hand signals.

The two things that my officiating mentors always reminded me of were that "a stroke can be ugly but not illegal" and "the swimmer always gets the benefit of the doubt". 

At the same time, if you see a violation, then it's your responsibility to call it in order to maintain a fair competition for all the athletes.  Actually, the system has an inherent bias toward the swimmer.  If a Stroke & Turn judge misses a call within his assigned jurisdiction, then that's it, another official can't call it, even if they witness a clear violation.  On the other hand, if a S&T judge makes a call, the Deck Ref can still overturn it.      

Mark     

 

 

   

 

2017-04-10 11:15 AM
in reply to: RedCorvette

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Subject: RE: Lap swimming etiquette

Originally posted by RedCorvette

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Jwse30
Originally posted by Left Brain

Oh.....you haven't really seen anything until you spend some time around "swim parents".  There is no creature on earth more annoying.....even triathletes absolutely pale in comparison.

As a parent who has a child on an age group swim team, I will have to respectfully disagree. And before I get accused of not seeing what you are talking about because I am one of them, I rarely sit in the stands during meets (or practices for that matter). I officiate most meets I attend, and if I stay for more than a few minutes for practice, it's because I work the help desk. I have seen a few parents that really aren't doing their kids or anyone else any favors by behaving the way they do. Up to a few years ago, my daughter also did ballet dancing. Those moms are just... well, this is a family forum. I've heard cheerleader moms are worse yet, but dance moms were enough for me. They made the swim parents who give me grief for DQing their kid for doing the wrong stroke ("it was just for a few feet!") seem like angels. And to get off on a quick tangent, as an official, I never DQ a swimmer; I witness them DQ themselves and then I tattle on them. I will also be the first to admit that for every infraction I see, I likely miss 3 or 4. At most meets, we are watching 3 lanes for half the pool and your eyes can't be everywhere J White

Ah yes, the official koolaid line of a swim official.   The craziest officiating I ever did was for a meet of para athletes.  I was just lost trying to figure out what was a violation and what wasn't.  For those who wonder, the rules are exactly the same......go try to work what is a stroke violation out for a kid with one arm.  In the end, I wasn't about to DQ anyone swimming a 1:05-1:10 100 with one or or leg. I was in awe of those kids.

 

Article 105 of the USA Swimming Rules is actually pretty specific about how you should judge permanently disabled or impaired athletes.  In very simple terms, if a limb is either permanently impaired or missing, then you don't judge it.  

I've worked a number of meets with physically & mentally challenged swimmers, both kids and adults.  The coaches normally will meet with us ahead of time to discuss any challenged swimmers.  In some cases we can make accommodations, for example, switching lanes for hearing-impaired swimmers so they can better see the starter's hand signals.

The two things that my officiating mentors always reminded me of were that "a stroke can be ugly but not illegal" and "the swimmer always gets the benefit of the doubt". 

At the same time, if you see a violation, then it's your responsibility to call it in order to maintain a fair competition for all the athletes.  Actually, the system has an inherent bias toward the swimmer.  If a Stroke & Turn judge misses a call within his assigned jurisdiction, then that's it, another official can't call it, even if they witness a clear violation.  On the other hand, if a S&T judge makes a call, the Deck Ref can still overturn it.      

Mark     

 

 

   

 

I called nothing on the para swimmers.  I don't miss officiating. When my kid aged out of swim club, so did I.

2017-04-11 12:16 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Lap swimming etiquette
Friends mom still refs... she does lots of Para and Masters meets... She got to ref Para in Rio
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