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2017-07-09 6:28 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing
How did the clinic go, Bo?



2017-07-09 9:37 PM
in reply to: triosaurus

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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing
He aquitted himself quite well. Should help him be ready for his 1500m OW race on the 15th.
2017-07-11 11:29 AM
in reply to: runtim23

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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing
As far as exhaling against pressure, I think it's a positive airway phenomenon. When I do a flip turn if I'm pushing myself really hard I will get a sense of anxiety right around the first breath coming to the surface. For some reason, if I cough against resistance (mouth closed, larynx close or against water) I get a sudden relief of symptoms. Don't know why it works, but it seems to work for me.
2017-07-11 8:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing
Originally posted by ChrisM

The reference to "pretentious" is weird, as that is generally a put down.

So triathletes that flip turn are pretentious? 

Generally I disagree and think that flip turns properly done will make one a better swimmer.  But definitely not required, I have a friend that does open turns in the pool due to back issues and he's pretty fast in OW.  I do not agree that open turns are "better" for OW swims either.

Everyone should do what they want.  And not put others down for doing something differently.  Just my ,02




No. I'm not saying people that flip are pretentious, I'm saying if I'm not going to be a writer or a speaker, I shouldn't have to use fancy words. Sure, they help in some circles but I think responding to a swimmer imposing their flip turn peer pressure with "It's ok. I do triathlon." should be a hall pass. I know I'll catch all kinds of flak for that but like I said, I don't feel they're so critical, but I'm just a casual weekend warrior type.

Thanks for elaborating on the breathing against resistance. That sounds interesting. I'm still slower with them but am trying to find a consistent execution. I feel I started off too fast which helped speed wise but were vertically uncontrolled if I didn't take time to plant my feet on the wall. Now I'm getting too cozy for a perfect plant before launching. Might take a little more time to get down. Either way I am losing anxiety approaching them.

Edited by runtim23 2017-07-11 9:00 PM
2017-07-11 10:53 PM
in reply to: runtim23

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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing

Originally posted by runtim23
Originally posted by ChrisM

The reference to "pretentious" is weird, as that is generally a put down.

So triathletes that flip turn are pretentious? 

Generally I disagree and think that flip turns properly done will make one a better swimmer.  But definitely not required, I have a friend that does open turns in the pool due to back issues and he's pretty fast in OW.  I do not agree that open turns are "better" for OW swims either.

Everyone should do what they want.  And not put others down for doing something differently.  Just my ,02

No. I'm not saying people that flip are pretentious, I'm saying if I'm not going to be a writer or a speaker, I shouldn't have to use fancy words. Sure, they help in some circles but I think responding to a swimmer imposing their flip turn peer pressure with "It's ok. I do triathlon." should be a hall pass. I know I'll catch all kinds of flak for that but like I said, I don't feel they're so critical, but I'm just a casual weekend warrior type. Thanks for elaborating on the breathing against resistance. That sounds interesting. I'm still slower with them but am trying to find a consistent execution. I feel I started off too fast which helped speed wise but were vertically uncontrolled if I didn't take time to plant my feet on the wall. Now I'm getting too cozy for a perfect plant before launching. Might take a little more time to get down. Either way I am losing anxiety approaching them.

Yep, you'll get better at them and while you do you'll become a better swimmer.  It has very little to do with whether it helps you in a triathlon or not, it's just another tool to help you feel the water better and become more of a water animal.  Remember, no matter what they say, every front pack swimmer can flip turn and did them religiously at some point in their swimming career.  Again, there is not one special thing about triathlon swimming......it's just swimming.

2017-07-12 12:34 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by runtim23
Originally posted by ChrisM

The reference to "pretentious" is weird, as that is generally a put down.

So triathletes that flip turn are pretentious? 

Generally I disagree and think that flip turns properly done will make one a better swimmer.  But definitely not required, I have a friend that does open turns in the pool due to back issues and he's pretty fast in OW.  I do not agree that open turns are "better" for OW swims either.

Everyone should do what they want.  And not put others down for doing something differently.  Just my ,02

No. I'm not saying people that flip are pretentious, I'm saying if I'm not going to be a writer or a speaker, I shouldn't have to use fancy words. Sure, they help in some circles but I think responding to a swimmer imposing their flip turn peer pressure with "It's ok. I do triathlon." should be a hall pass. I know I'll catch all kinds of flak for that but like I said, I don't feel they're so critical, but I'm just a casual weekend warrior type. Thanks for elaborating on the breathing against resistance. That sounds interesting. I'm still slower with them but am trying to find a consistent execution. I feel I started off too fast which helped speed wise but were vertically uncontrolled if I didn't take time to plant my feet on the wall. Now I'm getting too cozy for a perfect plant before launching. Might take a little more time to get down. Either way I am losing anxiety approaching them.

Yep, you'll get better at them and while you do you'll become a better swimmer.  It has very little to do with whether it helps you in a triathlon or not, it's just another tool to help you feel the water better and become more of a water animal.  Remember, no matter what they say, every front pack swimmer can flip turn and did them religiously at some point in their swimming career.  Again, there is not one special thing about triathlon swimming......it's just swimming.

Skills like flip turns and being able to swim strokes besides front crawl are the same as biking skills like being able to hold your line in a pace line or descend on a technical course.  They're not necessary to participate in triathlons, but they are indicative of overall skill levels that will make a person a better triathlete.

 



2017-07-12 12:51 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing
Originally posted by Left Brain

Yep, you'll get better at them and while you do you'll become a better swimmer.  It has very little to do with whether it helps you in a triathlon or not, it's just another tool to help you feel the water better and become more of a water animal.


I think that's the reason I wanted to do it.
I know the fastest swimmers in the world do it....because when they're racing in a pool, obviously....they have to if they want to win.

But, when they're not racing they still do it. Because they're animals.

I want to be an animal too, in any endeavor that requires practice and effort. Even if I'm just a little kitten and not a lion. Only one way to become a lion. Start as a kitten. Same as eating an elephant. One bite at a time. I want to own it.

Plus, I think it keeps people out of my lane sometimes. When I couldn't do them, I avoided people who did. I didn't want to get in their way, because they were clearly animals.

I'm not sure mine got "better" in proper form terms. I tend to roll over onto my stomach and surface pretty quick. Almost immediately. But, they are now approaching "effortless" stage. Good enough for me. I've got other bites of the elephant to consume. Like actually working out in the pool...and not just "swimming laps" which I've more or less always done in the past. Now, I can tell I'm "working out" because the water is so dang cold on the parts of me that are out of the water when I'm doing prescribed resting as part of the set.

In and of themselves, they don't make me faster. They make my pool swims last marginally less total time. But, I feel like I own it a fair bit more.

2017-07-12 2:20 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing
Originally posted by jhaack39


I'm not sure mine got "better" in proper form terms. I tend to roll over onto my stomach and surface pretty quick. Almost immediately.


So the next thing to work on, turnwise, is getting a good streamline off the wall. You lungs/head are telling you to surface to breath, but holding a good streamline off a flip turn, followed by a smooth breakout, can help you get a better feel for good streamlining while stroking. And the brief O2 deficit adds to the training effect, counteracting the brief respite your upper body gets.
2017-07-13 6:51 AM
in reply to: runtim23

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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing
I think it is good for the abs and a challenge no one should avoid.

Master the flip turn and then decide whether or not you want to use it.

Definitely agree flip turns give you more lane privacy.
2017-07-14 7:25 PM
in reply to: #5223620


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Subject: RE: Not Convinced with the Flip Turn Thing
Thanks for the encouragement and perspective!
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