So this whole HR training thing...

HR training is IMO very impressive if done correctly; that being said, from all the reading I have done (a ton on this site - lots of knowledgable peeps) the formulas are not very helpful; a field test is a suitable alternative to getting a VO2 test done; from this you can come up with appropriate ranges;

as far as the training goes, I was very skeptical until this yr; had been running only last year with top 1/2 Mary a 1:45 and top mary a 3:49 - by feel or RPE alone; started HR training in Mar this yr about one month after most recent marathon; I had to slow down to 10:20 ish to keep my HR in the zone - this lasted about 3-4 weeks then it slowly but progressively has changed and most recent long runs in the 8:10-8:20 range for the same HR zone;

Be patient with it

good luck

Edited by jzitar 2009-07-09 10:26 PM

That's a hard assumption to swallow because it is well known to be false for many people.

4 weeks is very little time.  And if the Karvonen formula is far wrong for you, then it would be even less surprising that you aren't making gains that quickly, as you are possibly training at the wrong intensity.

When I started running, I trained very stupidly (I had zero notion how to train) and made very sub-optimal gains for a good bit longer than 4 weeks.  Solid training makes a huge difference.

As I had stated "Assume that these were accurate"  I guess my point was more "Is 4 weeks not enough time to make a difference" (for most)  and then more specifically "Is 4 weeks not enough time to make a difference especially because of how often and how much I train"

First, do the LT test. It's the only way to get an accurate picture of your zones.

To answer your question, four weeks is not nearly long enough to get an accurate picture of anything. Think seasons, years, etc. Endurance fitness builds over longer periods of time than weeks. Also, put in one long run each week at a slow, easy pace. At your current training volume, 9 - 12 miles, you wouldn't likely see great gains.

HRM training can be really useful, especially getting a grasp of the whole 'slowing down to get faster' concept. Stick with it. There is a wealth of information here:

http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid...

X2... Asside from the fact that your zones may not be correct without field testing, I think you'll need more mileage to see gains using this method.

Edited by jsnowash 2009-07-10 6:19 AM

Also remember people will respond to training in different ways.  So while some may see fitness gains in four weeks, others may take longer.

Also, are you setting your training zones using HR exclusively?  Sometimes it's good to have a 'back-up', like RPE, as many factors can affect your HR on a given day.

Here's a really extensive BT thread on HR training that may provide you with more information.

Good luck!

EDITed to add:  I didn't see that someone beat me to the link!  Oh well, I guess it's a good thread that garners two or more recommendations!

Edited by davealt 2009-07-10 8:48 AM

Not quite.  After the warm-up, you begin going hard.  There's no 10 minutes easy.  You go 10 minutes hard, then 20 MORE minutes hard.  The point of breaking up the 30 min tt into 10+20 is that you will take your avg HR only for the final 20 minutes.  This is because over that first 10, your HR will not have caught up with your effort.

If by 'balls to the wall' you mean sprinting, then no, since you can't sprint for 30 minutes.  But yes, you should be going as hard as you think you can hold for 30 minutes.  (I got it totally wrong my first try!)

No.  30min "balls to the wall".  Avg. HR for final 20min is your LTHR estimate (the reason is that your HR will be climbing to 'steady state' sometime during that first 10).

Actually, the pace for the TT should be relatively steady from start to finish.  And, ideally, you shouldn't be able to hold that pace any longer than the 30min.  It's usually best to start out a little bit slower and finish a little bit stronger than to start quick and fade hard.  But it may take a few attempts before you get good at pacing it (just like experience helps in pacing a race).


Edit:  He beat me to it above.  ^^^^^

Edited by JohnnyKay 2009-07-10 2:26 PM

yeah i can't pace my run worth crapola...so it will be nice to learn that...i will try it this weekend and report back.