Swim Kick

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2009-07-03 9:40 AM

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Master
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Bloomington, MN
Subject: Swim Kick
I am relatively new to triathlons and have started a swim class to learn to swim more efficiently.  My instructor was a collegiate swimmer and is a local varsity high school swim coach.  She knows she has a class of triathletes and that my goals include oly distance triathlons.  She is really drilling us to have strong kicks.  I have read several places where long distance swimmers do not drive their swimming with their kicks; but rather flutter kick for leverage when rotating to glide and breath.  I am looking for comments on how hard other triathletes kick during their swims. 
Thanks.

2009-07-03 9:56 AM
in reply to: #2260115

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Expert
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Columbus
Subject: RE: Swim Kick
having a strong kick is essential for freestyle.

it is the number of kicks per pull cycle that changes with distance.

a strong kick helps propel you through the water. having a weak kick can cause you body to fall from a good prone position and create unnecessary drag.

work on low reps high quality kicks

if you instructor has you work on high reps in in practice it is still good for you - just know that in longer swims you can reduce it 
2009-07-03 10:15 AM
in reply to: #2260115

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Bob
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Binghamton, NY
Subject: RE: Swim Kick

I have a 6 beat kick when I swim. I have always been a distance freestyler and when I started doing triathlons I didn't change my kick at all. How much or how hard I kick has never affected how my legs felt on the bike. As soon as I start pedalling my legs feel great, mostly because I am using the muscles in a completely different action.

That being said, I do have an efficient kick and a very efficient pull so there is not a lot of "wasted energy". I believe the people saying a person shouldn't kick during a triathlon are inefficient kickers themselves. My advice would be to practice kicking during every workout and become a better kicker. Having an efficient kick is also importany to have better balance in the water which will allow you to relax more and conserve energy while moving through the water faster. (Tat's a good thing )

2009-07-03 10:42 AM
in reply to: #2260115

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Champion
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Brandon, MS
Subject: RE: Swim Kick

I have a strong kick when I distance swim.  That's not to say that I'm kicking like I would on a 50 free sprint, but I'm definitely kicking.  It doesn't wear me out or anything as the kick keeps my timing down, balances me out, keeps my stroke on form, etc.  So, it may not propel me like a sprint kick, but it allows for speed gains in that it keeps me effecient.  In other words, any energy expended is certainly not wasted.

2009-07-05 6:28 PM
in reply to: #2260115

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Master
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Lake Oswego, OR
Subject: RE: Swim Kick

I don't kick much swimming. I never do kick drills. I typically finish in the top 5% out of the water. I'm weird. Don't do what I do. I think rstocks3 advice is right.

2009-07-05 9:10 PM
in reply to: #2260115

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Veteran
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Des Moines, IA
Subject: RE: Swim Kick
i kick at an even easy pace but with good power behind them.  I was always told by my swim coach that for long distance swims that not kicking quickly is the way to go because of all of the oxygen required to be carried in your blood to your very large quads/hamstrings.

edit, i should probably elaborate for clarity... lowering the amount of blood needed in you legs by using a more efficient kick will allow the oxygen in your blood to be used by your arms and upper body to work on your pull.  This is a more efficient use of your breaths as your kicks are more of your stabilizers keeping your back end up and your upper body is what really moves you.  At least at long distance paces.  Sprinters will use their whole body to propel them.

Edited by jtaddei 2009-07-05 9:15 PM

2009-07-05 9:23 PM
in reply to: #2260115

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Subject: RE: Swim Kick
During an actual race or endurance swim for practice my kicks are steady, slow and at an even strength, enough for balance and stability but not relying on it for propulsion. If I am doing kick drills or working on 100 or 50 meter sprints I have a strong kick. I would say it depends on how your coach is having you develope a super strong kick as to whether it is wrong or right.

as a caveat...I have not professional or competitive swim background and am taught from a mix of personal experience, swim lessons, and reading the TI books for a different perspective on what was taught during my lessons.
2009-07-05 11:08 PM
in reply to: #2260133

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Master
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Breckenridge, CO
Subject: RE: Swim Kick
bruehoyt - 2009-07-03 8:56 AM
having a strong kick is essential for freestyle.

It isn't for mine. Until very recently, I've never really kicked much at all. IMO, if one needs a strong kick to keep their legs from sinking, they've got some stroke issues that they should work to resolve.
2009-07-06 7:00 AM
in reply to: #2260115

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim Kick
Also, wearing a wetsuit in a race pretty much eliminates the need to kick to keep the body afloat. Kicking in a wetsuit is such a different game than most of my training that I'm starting to use a pull buouy more to simulate what happens in a race.
2009-07-06 10:07 AM
in reply to: #2260115

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Expert
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The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: Swim Kick
I think there is a difference between a strong kick and kicking hard. A strong kick will allow for very little energy to be used b/c it's efficient. Kicking hard, whether you have a good kick or not, is just kicking hard. I think your coach is right, learn to have a strong kick so you don't have to kick very much.
2009-07-06 12:18 PM
in reply to: #2263614

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Expert
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Columbus
Subject: RE: Swim Kick
breckview - 2009-07-06 12:08 AM
bruehoyt - 2009-07-03 8:56 AM having a strong kick is essential for freestyle.
It isn't for mine. Until very recently, I've never really kicked much at all. IMO, if one needs a strong kick to keep their legs from sinking, they've got some stroke issues that they should work to resolve.


or if you don't know how to kick you should get some swim help.  you seem to have good swim times - imagine how well you would do if you learned.

Edited by bruehoyt 2009-07-06 12:41 PM

2009-07-06 7:14 PM
in reply to: #2264349

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Bob
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Binghamton, NY
Subject: RE: Swim Kick

tjfry - 2009-07-06 11:07 AM I think there is a difference between a strong kick and kicking hard. A strong kick will allow for very little energy to be used b/c it's efficient. Kicking hard, whether you have a good kick or not, is just kicking hard. I think your coach is right, learn to have a strong kick so you don't have to kick very much.

 

DING! DING! DING! Thank you TJ!! You have a way with putting things so they make so much sense!

2009-07-06 8:24 PM
in reply to: #2264885

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Master
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Breckenridge, CO
Subject: RE: Swim Kick
bruehoyt - 2009-07-06 11:18 AM
breckview - 2009-07-06 12:08 AM
bruehoyt - 2009-07-03 8:56 AM having a strong kick is essential for freestyle.
It isn't for mine. Until very recently, I've never really kicked much at all. IMO, if one needs a strong kick to keep their legs from sinking, they've got some stroke issues that they should work to resolve.


or if you don't know how to kick you should get some swim help.  you seem to have good swim times - imagine how well you would do if you learned.

Learned? You actually think I don't know "how" to kick? That's funny...

I'm not saying that anybody should or shouldn't kick strongly, weakly, or at all. I just know that for me, it's not "essential", and if I don't kick at all my legs still don't sink.
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