General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Question for any Time Trialers out there Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2009-08-20 9:58 PM

User image

Master
1858
10005001001001002525
Salt Lake City
Subject: Question for any Time Trialers out there
Last weekend, I did my first Time Trial, a flat 20k.  Despite being struck by a serious case of gear envy, I did as well as I personally expected.  37:10, averaging just over 20mph on a very basic road bike without aerobars.  The ride was an out and back with a headwind on the way out that seemed to slow everyone a bit.  The next race in the series is three weeks away.  My only change gear wise will probably be a shorty set of aerobars.  I've got a couple questions:

1.  Is three weeks enough time to get used to the aerobars?
2.  Assuming I bump up my training volume a bit, is 35:XX a reasonable goal to set for myself?  I'm honestly not sure how much 70ish seconds is on a 20k bike race.  I've been steadily improving on the bike since I started riding regularly in April of this year.


2009-08-20 10:07 PM
in reply to: #2361559

User image

Champion
19812
50005000500020002000500100100100
MA
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there
I do a TT that takes me 22:45 to do. I've done it 5 times of the course of 2 summers and my times are always within 45".

It depends on your fitness level prior to first one, your cycling background and how you train. I doubt you can drop 2 minutes in 3 weeks unless you didn't push yourself hard the first time. Pacing takes awhile to learn.
2009-08-20 10:12 PM
in reply to: #2361559

User image

Master
1858
10005001001001002525
Salt Lake City
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there
I was afraid of that... although, I'm really only trying to drop a little over a minute.  I suppose there is only going to be one way to find out... but I find my training much more productive when I set goals for myself, What would be more realistic?
2009-08-20 10:19 PM
in reply to: #2361575

User image

Champion
7233
5000200010010025
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there
the aerobars on their own, combined with a bit better understanding of how to pace that could get that time for you.

add in the training for a those weeks and i think you cna do it.
2009-08-21 12:03 AM
in reply to: #2361559

User image

Pro
5892
5000500100100100252525
, New Hampshire
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there
3 weeks should be enough for you to get used to the aerobars. Over 20k, you will save a few seconds (maybe as much as 10sec.).

Since that was your first TT, and I would assume you did some of the normal mistakes with pacing (starting too fast and getting a dip in the middle, and/or having a bit left at the very end). With the experience you have from the first race, you should be able to increase speed from 20 to 21MPH (which is what you need to get just under 36).

Go out and do interval training (shortish intervals, something like 5*5 minutes to gain top speed, and 2*20min to gain threshold)
2009-08-21 5:39 AM
in reply to: #2361559

User image

Master
1603
1000500100
Connecticut
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there
My aerobars (TT bike versus road bike) give me about 1mph extra speed for the same effort on a time trial course.  If your results are the same, then the aerobars alone could make up the speed you are looking for.  If you get used to them ahead of time (and three weeks should be fine, if you are getting our regularly) so that you are able to maintain power and can get in a good, low aero position, then I think it's totally possible.

The other big thing you can work on to quickly improve in a TT is pacing.  Many people go out to hard when they first tri TT's, then blow up before the halfway point, so knowing how to measure your effort is a big advantage.

Edited by dredwards 2009-08-21 5:40 AM


2009-08-21 8:56 AM
in reply to: #2361559

User image

Expert
2555
20005002525
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there
The bars alone could give you the added speed. However, I'm not as familiar with shorties and how they improve position compared to regular clipons. You may still be in a more upright position and not get the full benefit of the being aero.

Keep in mind that weather conditions can also affect the times. Wind direction and speed especially.
2009-08-21 9:02 AM
in reply to: #2361559

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2009-08-21 10:32 AM
in reply to: #2361559

Master
1651
10005001002525
Breckenridge, CO
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there
JZig - 2009-08-20 8:58 PM
Is three weeks enough time to get used to the aerobars?
2.  Assuming I bump up my training volume a bit, is 35:XX a reasonable goal to set for myself? 


I agree with everyone else about adding aerobars.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't be too concerned about setting/attaining mph goals over that short (or any) training period. There's no way to know what an individual beginning cyclist is capable of riding so any goal on mph would be just a guess. Most everybody is guilty of it and it's fine as long as you know it's just a guess.

Instead, I'd set training goals and let the MPH in races take care of themselves. Training is where you improve. You just show up for races and replicate what you've done in training.

Here's what I'd do (and what I currently do but with longer distances than pure TT course):

1. I'd create a test course as similar to the real one as possible and ride it VERY OFTEN and try for PRs VERY OFTEN (as my body allows). Create the course with as few stops required as possible. In most areas, that will probably require you to ride some miles to get to the start which you should treat as a warm-up/down.

2. I'd divide the course into 4ths and take splits at each point on every ride. Be sure to be VERY ACCURATE with your times. I use a stop watch which I stop every time a foot touches the ground. Then I give myself exactly five out-of-the-saddle right leg strokes to get back to speed before I restart the watch (I've tested this and for me it's very close to replicating the same ride without the stop). It also encourages me to come to aburpt stops and get unclipped quickly (don't know if that's good or not since it caused me to crash in a race...) It doesn't matter what your personal start/stop policy is as long as it's always the same.

3. I'd record all my training ride times and splits on the course in great detail with:
a. Fatique condition before the ride (1 to 10 scale).
b. Effort (1 to 10 scale) for every section between splits points.
c. wind direction/speed including wind shifts if they occur. I base my wind speed on how flags are blowing (full flag, half flag, etc).

4. I'd memorize my PR splits at those points so on every ride I knew exactly how fast I was riding based on wind direction/speed.

5. I'd try to ride to the first split at the same effort each time 6-7/10 (probably harder if I was training a shorter distance). This gives me a good read on how I'm riding early.

6. On good days I'd ramp up my effort at each split so that I'm pushing 9/10 for what ever distance I can maintain at the end. On bad days (ie. my splits are off), I just ride the rest of the course comfortable and enjoy bike riding.

5. I'd set training goals of increasing my weekly mileage by X miles (ramp up as slowly as possible) to whatever time commitment I've allocated to bike training. I set a goal of riding my test course Y times per week at an effort level my fatigue condition allowed.

By doing all this, IMO, you safely increase your training load, you learn optimal pacing, learn how to push your body harder, and you convince your mind that you can ride much faster. This will translate into higher speeds during the real TT races.

I used this method to get very fast at a 40k time trial when I was younger. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.
2009-08-28 12:41 AM
in reply to: #2361559

Master
1858
10005001001001002525
Salt Lake City
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there
I've received and installed my new aerobars.  I decided to go with the normal sized profile designs T2+.  They're on the bike, but I think I still need to tweak them a bit for them to be completely comfortable.  I haven't tried riding them yet.

As far as pacing goes, I was wondering if anyone could offer advice based on my average MPH splits from the first TT:

Mile 1:  18.1
Mile 2:  18.6
Mile 3:  17.3
Mile 4:  16.2
Mile 5:  15.4
Mile 6:  16.1
Mile 7:  19.6
Mile 8:  25.0
Mile 9:  26.1
Mile 10: 26.3
Mile 11: 25.4
Mile 12: 23.8
Mile 13: 23.3

Edited by JZig 2009-08-28 12:43 AM
2009-08-28 7:17 AM
in reply to: #2361559

Master
2491
2000100100100100252525
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there
It's hard to critique your splits without knowing the course, and also because of the headwind. For 20k, you really can't go too hard. You should be grunting and slobbering the whole way, or you're not going hard enough. I'd bet that with the aerobars, no wind, and knowing what to expect from the race, your time goal is very achievable. A time trial is a good chance to learn about pain and suffering, and it's really hard to push yourself to the limit in your first race. Go for it. You can do it.


2009-08-28 7:26 AM
in reply to: #2375610

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2009-08-28 1:29 PM
in reply to: #2361559

Fishers, IN
Subject: RE: Question for any Time Trialers out there

Can you get used to your aeros in 3 weeks, likely.  Going aero will definitely help as well as likely put you in a more powerful position on the bike, at least for me they do on my road bike.  Dropping a couple of minutes?  You  can make the quickest gains through intervals that teach you pacing and mental toughness (concentration).  Volume, on the short term is not where it is at.  Riding fast a couple times a week is.  Long term, increase in volume and some of it very hard (longer inervals as prescribed earlier) will take you a long ways.

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Question for any Time Trialers out there Rss Feed