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Suggestions for good books on swim technique?
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 2009-07-09 11:40 AM |
Veteran  263  |  Subject: Suggestions for good books on swim technique?When it comes to swim technique, I am confused to a high degree. I read stuff, look stuff up online, and come up with a bundle of contradictions. Some say to do an S-shaped curve with the hand, some say it doesn't matter. Some say don't kick much, some say kicking is very important, some say light kicking is all triathletes should do. Some say do a body roll, some say keep the shoulders flat, some say keep the head down, some say keep it slightly up to look forward. Some say none of this really matters. There is so much contradictory stuff I have seen I am so confused. Are there any good, comprehensive books out there that give a good overview of all of these debates, cite the scientific literature (if there is any--I searched and couldn't find anything very useful), and build a training program upon that? I'm not talking about a book that lays out a single slanted view (i.e., Total Immersion), but something more synoptic, encyclopedic but without being a literal (disjointed) encyclopedia. This is driving me nuts! Anyway, I'd appreciate any pointers to good books (or DVDs for that matter, but DVDs probably won't be as comprehensive as I'm talking about). Perhaps there is a swimming bible and I'm just not aware of it. I'd appreciate any advice here, I'm going crazy.  Edited by neuronet 2009-07-09 11:57 AM |
| 2009-07-09 11:59 AM in reply to: #2273210 |
Extreme Veteran 3177  | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? I do not think there is any true encyclopedic book out there that summerizes and backs up all the different techniques for swimming. The best suggestion honestly is to find a good swim coach and get a few lessons. I would look for a few different things when picking this coach though. 1. make sure they are experienced with Triathlons and triathletes. 2. Make sure they will listen to you and work with your stroke instead of trying to construct a new stroke for you. 3. Make sure they have an understanding of your goal. You will want a coach who, ideally, will be able to watch you swim and talk to you about what feels comfortable in the water for you and go from there to help you have the best stroke possible. TI does not work for everyone because not everyone is the same. No swimming technique will be universally accepted and useful so individual styles, comfort, and limitations have to be taken in to account. A good coach will be able to help you within your own personal framework and give you immidiate drills and feedback to help you learn to swim or learn to swim better. That is something you just cannot get from any book no matter how well written! |
| 2009-07-09 12:04 PM in reply to: #2273272 |
Veteran 263 | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? bel83 - 2009-07-09 11:59 AM I do not think there is any true encyclopedic book out there that summerizes and backs up all the different techniques for swimming. The best suggestion honestly is to find a good swim coach and get a few lessons. I would look for a few different things when picking this coach though. 1. make sure they are experienced with Triathlons and triathletes. 2. Make sure they will listen to you and work with your stroke instead of trying to construct a new stroke for you. 3. Make sure they have an understanding of your goal. Thank you for responding. A good coach sounds like a great idea. There's even a Masters triathlon swim class in Durham (NC). I should try that out for the reasons you cite! Actually they meet tonight maybe I'll go!  (That said, it would be really nice to have a good unbiased book out there and if anyone knows of one please tell us!) Something like Friel for the swim. Edited by neuronet 2009-07-09 12:04 PM |
| 2009-07-09 12:13 PM in reply to: #2273210 |
Extreme Veteran 3177 | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? Your welcome. Even though I had been in the water all my life (swimming, boating, rowing etc...) I had never learned to properly free style. I took a class at the local community Pool with my wife (turned out being just us two so it was almost like a private lesson) and from that the instructor was able to give me some specific drills to work on and get me going. After that I read the TI book and 1 other book (cant remember the name, borrowed from a friend) and took some of those techniques and drills to my swim also so I now have an efficient stroke that is slowly getting faster as my form gets better and I practice more but the books would have been worthless without those lessons last fall. Masters is also a great option, I just don't have a club near me that fits my schedule  Good luck and perhaps someone does know more about a swimming guid like you are looking for. |
| 2009-07-09 12:18 PM in reply to: #2273210 |
Veteran 263 | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? I just looked up some stuff on Amazon and the following look like they might have what I want: Swimming Fastest (by Maglischo) Breakthrough Swimming (by Colwin) Swim Coaching Bible (by Hannula) has a chapter on freestyle techniques (plural!). They have some good physics of swimming, applications to stroke technique. The latter book looks especially thorough, and has lots of references to the scientific literature (yes, I am a scientist, and yes, I realize this is as much an art as a science ).There is jargon in the third book they talk about a "two-beat" versus "four-beat" kick. Does anyone here know what that means? Edited by neuronet 2009-07-09 12:25 PM |
| 2009-07-09 12:47 PM in reply to: #2273344 |
Expert 2547  The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? neuronet - 2009-07-09 12:18 PM I just looked up some stuff on Amazon and the following look like they might have what I want: Swimming Fastest (by Maglischo) Breakthrough Swimming (by Colwin) Swim Coaching Bible (by Hannula) has a chapter on freestyle techniques (plural!). They have some good physics of swimming, applications to stroke technique. The latter book looks especially thorough, and has lots of references to the scientific literature (yes, I am a scientist, and yes, I realize this is as much an art as a science ).There is jargon in the third book they talk about a "two-beat" versus "four-beat" kick. Does anyone here know what that means? Maglischo was a favorite of my college coach. Very analytical, although I'm sure that all the books you list will achieve what you are looking for. I've mentioned this before, but most people are trying to describe essentially the same thing, they just do it differently. You just need to find someone that makes sense to you. (one reason why TI is popular). If you are looking on the web though, you have to be careful as there is a bunch of really bad advice out there. I think if I were looking on the web I would want to "see" what they are descirbing, i.e. someone swimming the stroke they are teaching. That way you can see if it looks right or not (even non swimmers can tell what a good stroke looks like, we've all watched the Olympics). To your question of the 2 and 4 beat kick: They are referring to the number of kicks per swim cycle. 2 beat kick is 1 kick per stroke, 4 beat kick is 2 kicks per stroke. Good Luck! Edited by tjfry 2009-07-09 12:47 PM |
| 2009-07-09 12:50 PM in reply to: #2273457 |
Veteran 263 | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? tjfry - 2009-07-09 12:47 PM Maglischo was a favorite of my college coach. Very analytical, although I'm sure that all the books you list will achieve what you are looking for. I've mentioned this before, but most people are trying to describe essentially the same thing, they just do it differently. You just need to find someone that makes sense to you. (one reason why TI is popular). If you are looking on the web though, you have to be careful as there is a bunch of really bad advice out there. I think if I were looking on the web I would want to "see" what they are descirbing, i.e. someone swimming the stroke they are teaching. That way you can see if it looks right or not (even non swimmers can tell what a good stroke looks like, we've all watched the Olympics). To your question of the 2 and 4 beat kick: They are referring to the number of kicks per swim cycle. 2 beat kick is 1 kick per stroke, 4 beat kick is 2 kicks per stroke. Good Luck! You guys are awesome! Thanks for the feedback. I have definitely noticed the web ain't the best place to look. I really like some of TI, but some of it seems a bit one-size-fits-all for me (e.g., I like to kick when I swim!). The other stuff I cited above all acknowledge that a plan can't be one-size-fits-all and you need to find the combination of stylistic variants that works best for you, that there are many solutions that work, not one solution. |
| 2009-07-09 12:54 PM in reply to: #2273473 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? neuronet - 2009-07-09 12:50 PM tjfry - 2009-07-09 12:47 PM Maglischo was a favorite of my college coach. Very analytical, although I'm sure that all the books you list will achieve what you are looking for. I've mentioned this before, but most people are trying to describe essentially the same thing, they just do it differently. You just need to find someone that makes sense to you. (one reason why TI is popular). If you are looking on the web though, you have to be careful as there is a bunch of really bad advice out there. I think if I were looking on the web I would want to "see" what they are descirbing, i.e. someone swimming the stroke they are teaching. That way you can see if it looks right or not (even non swimmers can tell what a good stroke looks like, we've all watched the Olympics). To your question of the 2 and 4 beat kick: They are referring to the number of kicks per swim cycle. 2 beat kick is 1 kick per stroke, 4 beat kick is 2 kicks per stroke. Good Luck! You guys are awesome! Thanks for the feedback. I have definitely noticed the web ain't the best place to look. I really like some of TI, but some of it seems a bit one-size-fits-all for me (e.g., I like to kick when I swim!). The other stuff I cited above all acknowledge that a plan can't be one-size-fits-all and you need to find the combination of stylistic variants that works best for you, that there are many solutions that work, not one solution. I agree. You will find though that most of the discussion in the books you reference will all explain the same stroke as it seems to be the most efficient and most widely used. It won't fit everyone's needs though. Just look at the tippy top of that sport and you will see that Janet Evans, Thorpe, Michael Phelps, etc all have different strokes from each other, but the fundamentals are the same. |
| 2009-07-09 1:59 PM in reply to: #2273210 |
Expert 828 | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? I can only suggest one book as that's all I read. TI. I read the book then bought the dvd. The dvd helped a ton. A lot of people have knocked the TI method. I guess it's just different from what they do. But for me, it has been a great starting point. I went from 25 yds x2 and gasping for breath and needing 3 minutes to recover (and it never got better until I got the book and dvd) to 5 months later I did a 2 mile swim at a slow but steady 2:14/100m pace in a 50M pool. Swimming the TI method I was MOP in all but one of my 5 races last year (had pneumonia for one so it was take a breath, cough, stroke, take a breath, cough, stroke...hope that never happens again...finished dead last AG swim). Anyway, with harder efforts during drills and speed work, I got my times down to under 2:00 min/100m...its a work in progress. as you mentioned...many techniques to read on. Whoever posted "get a coach"...great idea. My wife and I have discussed splitting time with a coach in an attempt to get faster in the water. |
| 2009-07-09 2:31 PM in reply to: #2273743 |
Veteran 263 | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? Rad-Onc PA - 2009-07-09 1:59 PM I can only suggest one book as that's all I read. TI. I haven't read it yet, only watched videos. He makes a great deal of sense, and has some great stuff that has helped me. However, I look at swimming technique as more of a 'choose your own adventure' story rather than a fixed narrative that will work for everyone or a fixed algorithm meant to apply to all. I've used a lot of the TI stuff (e.g., reducing drag is often easier than increasing propulsion, and this is very useful), but not others (e.g., the strange lack of useful information about actively kicking). At any rate, I would prefer a more synoptic vision of swimming and I think the above books have it (especially the first in the list of three). |
| 2009-07-09 2:39 PM in reply to: #2273210 |
Member 72 Middletown, CT | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? I'll second/third or whatever Swimming Fastest if you want something encyclopedic. I was surprised when I got it delivered from Amazon - it is the size of a physics text book. I enjoyed the history of swimming theory it gave. Since then I sometimes notice some of the old 70's era debunked theories he described being mentioned as fact in contemporary articles. http://www.amazon.com/Swimming-Fastest-Ernest-W-Maglischo/dp/073603... Edited by steven_lohmann 2009-07-09 2:43 PM |
| 2009-07-09 2:45 PM in reply to: #2273210 |
Veteran 263 | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? I just ordered Swimming Fastest. Now I'm sure I'll be first out of water at all my events.   Good help and discussion here. I like this site. |
| 2009-07-09 3:01 PM in reply to: #2273956 |
Extreme Veteran 3177 | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? neuronet - 2009-07-09 12:45 PM I just ordered Swimming Fastest. Now I'm sure I'll be first out of water at all my events. Good help and discussion here. I like this site. Good! Just remember to stick with it and that not everything is set in stone! do what works for you. |
| 2009-07-10 9:30 PM in reply to: #2273210 |
Veteran 263 | Subject: RE: Suggestions for good books on swim technique? I got the book 'Swimming Fastest' today. It is perfect, exactly what I wanted. It is basically a textbook that covers all the major aspects of swimming (and all four strokes). Lots of great science, lots of great uncertainty (that is, recognition that everyone is different), basically it seems to be a synoptic, objective overview of the science of swimming and the practical implications for training. Thank goodness, I was worried such a book did not exist. Thanks for all the help folks. |
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