Nasal breathing & imroved performance
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![]() | ![]() Hi all I'm new to both the list and the sport but I've just finished reading my first book and I'm amazed about what the author suggests. His name is John Douillard and the title of the book is "Body Mind and Sport". Has anyone tried his suggestions? or even read the book? He seems to be campaigning for full on nasal breathing throughout the run and he is saying that runners can run to their full capacity while nose breathing (it could take anything from 4-6 weeks to get used to nose breathe) but now with breathing rates of 15-20 breaths per minute (!!) and significantly lower heart rates!! Not only that but he seems to suggest that apart from the physical benefits of his method that runners also transform their subjective experience into a more pleasurable one. Now before I start devoting time to this type of training (spectacular promises always made me suspicious :-) ) I thought I might ask if anyone has tried anything similar? thank you for your time Yannis |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() There are a lot of claims out there about the benefits of nasal breathing, all the way from 'it might make you more relaxed' to 'it will help you win friends and defeat your enemies'. Many of these claims are based on totally bogus arguments. My favorite is that infants naturally breathe through the nose, and only later learn to breath through the mouth. (This would perhaps be slightly more convincing if infants were also very fast runners...) I do think it is likely that nasal breathing helps one to relax, although simply being conscious of tension (and then taking steps to reduce it) while running is probably more effective. There are a few studies out there that suggest that training with nasal breathing helps improve performance in amateur athletes. However, nothing in these studies rules out the (to my mind, very strong) possibility that the benefits occur because the nasal breathing forces the runners to slow down. Most amateur runners train too fast (I'm guilty of it from time to time), so anything that forces them to slow down is probably to their benefit. I've forced myself to breathe nasally for the first half of a few marathons in order to prevent going out to fast. It works. I'm very skeptical that there is anything more to it than that, but somebody please prove me wrong. Oh, and I challenge anyone to do it on the swim. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() So he is saying to breathe in AND out through your nose? My former x-country runner husband taught me to breathe in through my nose, out through my mouth. And to do it SLOWLY and don't do the hyperventilated breathing that newbies do. Can't say it does anything for my HR which is always high, but it does help me focus on slowing down (as if 12-13 min/mi weren't slow enough......) and staying in control. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() My coach has me nasal breathing. Started off struggling to do it for 30secs even when in Z1, now happily barreling along 15bpm higher for 5-6mins at a time. Its generally improved my posture and has me taking much deeper breaths and better belly breaths. Interestingly, prior to this a massage therapist commented on how shallow my breathing is. Now much deeper all the time. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I think it's a bunch of bunk. Most likely the nasal breathing is forcing runners to slow their pace thus not dropping off like they would if they started out to fast. Also it forces the runner to take longer controled breaths thus keeping them more relaxed. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() fsr402 - 2008-08-06 11:43 PM I think it's a bunch of bunk. Most likely the nasal breathing is forcing runners to slow their pace thus not dropping off like they would if they started out to fast. Also it forces the runner to take longer controled breaths thus keeping them more relaxed. In which case its not bunk ![]() Both of those things sound like good things to me.. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Remember he's selling a book. The breath control people are describing can also be attributed to diaphram excersizes that singers do. Oh, did I mention that deep relaxed breathing, lung capacity and posture are important in singing, yet no one sings through their nose...hmmm. The same results have also been documented using those lung resistence trainers which make your diaphram work harder, but doesn't invlove the nose. I'm also not clear how the nose alters your VO2 max. Maybe your nose hairs tease the air into processing more efficiently?
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() AusVirgin - 2008-08-06 7:32 PM fsr402 - 2008-08-06 11:43 PM I think it's a bunch of bunk. Most likely the nasal breathing is forcing runners to slow their pace thus not dropping off like they would if they started out to fast. Also it forces the runner to take longer controled breaths thus keeping them more relaxed. In which case its not bunk ![]() Both of those things sound like good things to me.. But saying that the nasal breathing is why you are running better is not right. Saying that you're pacing right and relaxed with a controled breath would be the right thing. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Oh and when I start seeing the kenyon runners finishing a 2.5 hour marathon breathing thru the nose, then I'll beleive it. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() fsr402 - 2008-08-06 6:53 PM Oh and when I start seeing the kenyon runners finishing a 2.5 hour marathon breathing thru the nose, then I'll beleive it. Bump. Learning to breathe and pace is what helps, not a magical nose cure for panting. Selling a premise in a book that could be explained in a paragraph seems a bit like a con. Edited by Broompatrol 2008-08-06 9:03 PM |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Broompatrol - 2008-08-07 12:01 PM fsr402 - 2008-08-06 6:53 PM Oh and when I start seeing the kenyon runners finishing a 2.5 hour marathon breathing thru the nose, then I'll beleive it. Bump. Learning to breathe and pace is what helps, not a magical nose cure for panting. Selling a premise in a book that could be explained in a paragraph seems a bit like a con. So... the other benefits I have seen (BTW, from just starting off with 2x 2mins nose breathing in my long run, now built up to 2-3x 20mins in my long run) in my cycling, swimming and more generally (much more diaphramatic breathing) means its not worth putting more concious effort into your breathing isn't worth it? |
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Runner | ![]() AusVirgin - 2008-08-14 8:27 AM Broompatrol - 2008-08-07 12:01 PM So... the other benefits I have seen (BTW, from just starting off with 2x 2mins nose breathing in my long run, now built up to 2-3x 20mins in my long run) in my cycling, swimming and more generally (much more diaphramatic breathing) means its not worth putting more concious effort into your breathing isn't worth it? fsr402 - 2008-08-06 6:53 PM Oh and when I start seeing the kenyon runners finishing a 2.5 hour marathon breathing thru the nose, then I'll beleive it. Bump. Learning to breathe and pace is what helps, not a magical nose cure for panting. Selling a premise in a book that could be explained in a paragraph seems a bit like a con. I don't think that's the point. Hey, if breathing through your nose gets you to slow down, then great. But the point is not the nasal breathing. This is no more magical a method than HR training, or RPE, or whatever else gets you to train properly. Breathing through your nose is not going to work for everyone, first of all. Second of all, it's the the nasal breathing that causes the performance improvement; it's the improved training. The same thing can be achieved through other means. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Why would anyone want to breathe only through their nose? It doesn't make any sense to me. I hope no one tries to do this while swimming. I have a big nose, no doubt but my mouth is huge and can move a lot more air through it. I like to get as much O2 as I can. |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jeffy_101 - 2008-08-14 5:03 PM Why would anyone want to breathe only through their nose? It doesn't make any sense to me. I hope no one tries to do this while swimming. I have a big nose, no doubt but my mouth is huge and can move a lot more air through it. I like to get as much O2 as I can. Well, in my view (as I said above) it is because it slows you down and it relaxes some people. I found it helpful to force good pacing for the first half of a marathon. I think it is generally a very effective way to force slower pace. As for relaxing, I think it probably works, but I'm less keen on using it for that, because you want to be relaxed also when you are going all out, and if you rely on nasal breathing to get that relaxation, you are out of luck during an all-out effort. So I think that teaching yourself to run relaxed under all conditions is better. As others have said, nasal breathing can be the cause of better training techniques, which can also, and perhaps better, be learned as well by other means. It is very unlikely to be a direct cause of better running. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Scout7 - 2008-08-14 10:40 PM I don't think that's the point. Hey, if breathing through your nose gets you to slow down, then great. But the point is not the nasal breathing. This is no more magical a method than HR training, or RPE, or whatever else gets you to train properly. Breathing through your nose is not going to work for everyone, first of all. Second of all, it's the the nasal breathing that causes the performance improvement; it's the improved training. The same thing can be achieved through other means. To clarify, the benefits I have seen from adopting a little nasal breathing into easy workouts: - I learnt to breath more deeply and more "strongly" (not literally, but maybe you know what I mean. Biggest crossover benefit into swimming. - Being forced to breath nasally is a good guage of effort. Many coaches point to the switch over when you can't breath nasally any more as approximate to the "aerobic threshold" - a much maligned and misunderstood concept but a good measure for easy pace. There may be a bunch of other people out there claiming much broader benefits but these two alone are definitely a sufficient reason. Edited by AusVirgin 2008-08-15 6:50 AM |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() AusVirgin - 2008-08-15 7:47 AM Scout7 - 2008-08-14 10:40 PM To clarify, the benefits I have seen from adopting a little nasal breathing into easy workouts: - I learnt to breath more deeply and more "strongly" (not literally, but maybe you know what I mean. Biggest crossover benefit into swimming. - Being forced to breath nasally is a good guage of effort. Many coaches point to the switch over when you can't breath nasally any more as approximate to the "aerobic threshold" - a much maligned and misunderstood concept but a good measure for easy pace. There may be a bunch of other people out there claiming much broader benefits but these two alone are definitely a sufficient reason. I don't think that's the point.
Hey, if breathing through your nose gets you to slow down, then great. But the point is not the nasal breathing. This is no more magical a method than HR training, or RPE, or whatever else gets you to train properly. Breathing through your nose is not going to work for everyone, first of all. Second of all, it's the the nasal breathing that causes the performance improvement; it's the improved training. The same thing can be achieved through other means. I'm not sure what 'strong' breathing means. Nor do I know who these 'many coaches' are, but I'd be highly disinclined to trust them if they issue blanket statements like that. People vary a LOT in their ability to suck air through their nose, because peoople vary a LOT in the physiology of their nasal passages. Some people can draw a large volume quickly through their noses, others are 'blessed' with smaller nasal passages, sinus problems, etc., and have a harder time getting air through there. Any blanket statement about the relationship between nasal breathing and training zones is silly, IMO. But if it helps you, go for it. I've got nothing against it. |
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