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2004-02-11 4:38 PM

Member
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Bartlesville Oklahoma
Subject: Atkins Is Bad?
So, I don't want to try to do the most extreme version of Atkins again. I lost some weight on it once. I don't want to go back to my olb bodybuilder diet (high protein, moderate carb, extreme low fat) either. I don't have but (maybe) ten pounds to lose to be at my "fightning weight."

What percentages of carbs, protiens, and fats are "standard?"


2004-02-11 4:55 PM
in reply to: #6903

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Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
I have had the most success with the Zone Diet. I don't have a weight problem, current fat content 8.5%, but I use up a lot of energy on my workouts, training others plus running a multi state- multi $MM business. I have used the diet for over a year now and at 55 I am performing at the level I was (race times not just place) when I was 40. My best finish in the last 2 years is 3rd overall. Go to the library and check out "The Zone" by Dr Sears. It was not formulated as a weight loss program but as an athlete's performance diet regimen. I am usually very skeptical of diets and it took me almost 6 years to even try the zone after I heard about it. Very astisfied about the results - especially considering I have one perceived disadvantage - I'm vegetarian - no meat products at all.

Edited by jtoplus3 2004-02-11 4:56 PM
2004-02-11 5:09 PM
in reply to: #6905

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Resident Matriarch
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Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
I am another fan of the Zone. I lost 80 pounds being a "Zoner" several years ago. I deviated from the plan because I was bored with it, it is somewhat like eating a math formula for each meal. Naturally I gained most of the weight right back. Today I am following a more loose version of the Zone, more like a 33-33-33 split and I am not as compulsive about every gram at every meal. Everything JT has said about this plan is also true for me. It took me quite a while to adopt it as my own. I really only read the book because my husband is diabetic. As an added bennie I lost a ton of weight and my athletic performance was noticably improved. So I'm back to it, and my body is thanking me for it.

2004-02-11 5:15 PM
in reply to: #6903

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?

Nutrition for endurance athletes is really different than for bodybuilders.  If you get your exercise calorie expenditure up to say 3500 - 4000 calories per week as it would be if you are running/swimming/biking for 6-8 hours per week, you will need to get about 50-55% of your nutritional calories from carbs, 25% fat and the rest in protein. 

Keep track of your weight and total calories and adjust the total calories up or down to get the rate of weight loss where you want it.  If you want to train hard, don't starve yourself.  To lose that 10 pounds, lose no more than .5 pound per week.  If you are training in the 1500 exercise calories and 2-3 hrs of exercise per week, then a more normal 40-30-30 split of macro nutrients is appropriate.

The good thing about this endurance stuff is that the diet is great! 

2004-02-11 9:24 PM
in reply to: #6903

Member
22

Bartlesville Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
Thanks Tech Geezer for that specific information! I've been averaging 4000 + calories a week, and I think I'm going to scale it back by about a third. I think I've been overdoing it-signs of overtraining. I've got to take it a little more slowly.
2004-02-11 11:34 PM
in reply to: #6957

New user
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Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
I hate to disagree with people but my work out schedule is 15 hrs a week minimum and calorie expenditure is approximately 16,000 per week. I still find the 40-30-30 the best ratio - the key is to understand what is protein and what is not. We often think of items such as beans or nuts as protein when they are really carbs and fats respectively. The 40-30-30 was designed and with the Stanford swim team as the test environment initially and their workout and calorie expendatures were way up there.


2004-02-12 9:33 AM
in reply to: #6957

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?

Hi Earthgirl,

I looked at your logs.  Whoa.  You may be overdoing it.  People will tell you to go by how you feel but it is difficult when the endurance regimen is new to you to know what feels right.  Some of your symptoms are classic OT.   Backing off and consolidating gains seems a really good idea.  Consistency is the key, not any particular speed, distance, or calorie expenditure per day.  The adaptations in your body take a while.  Keeping a moderate level of stress on your body for a long time will produce phenomenal results.  You will notice it when each day begins to feel right.

My personal approach to exercise is unconventional.  Rather than having hard days and easy days, I try for nearly equal effort every day.  I can find that magic point more easily where I just barely recover from the previous days workout before the next workout begins.  That equilibrium effort actually feels fairly easy during the exercise.  I always feel like I have a little gas in the tank.  The training folks refer to this phase as base building, but I am on that base build for the long haul.  Preparation for a competition usually involves some buildup in intensity and speed at the race distance to attain a peak performance on race day rather than continuing base building.  This necessarily involves more hard days and rest days than my approach.

My advice on macronutrient percentages is pretty conventional for endurance athletes, but there are lots of different opinions about the exact percentages.  Most people do not even know what their breakdown really is.  One thing is certain, low carb is bad for endurance athletes.  Eat a good variety of foods, and use good judgment about the amounts.  You ought feel a little bit hungry before each meal.  You will improve your training times if you get some carbs about an hour before the workout.  You will improve your recovery if you get some carbs and protein just after the workout.

TW

2004-02-12 9:58 AM
in reply to: #6903

Member
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Bartlesville Oklahoma
Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
Thanks again, everyone. I am convinced that I have some OT happening. I think I'm going to schedule more rest times, and mix it up a little more with swimming and running. OT seems to show up faster and more undeniable than it ever did in bodybuilding.

The other thing is that I haven't been eating right. Waiting for hours after a strenuous workout to eat, and then I've been keeping carbs sort of low. Guess I need to forget about my weight and focus on my other goals. I really don't have that much to lose anyway. Even though I haven't weighed for a few weeks, I think my composition has changed.

I do like the idea of keeping the intensity level at an even keel. I think it will be a good year before I'm actually ready to enter any tri's, so it wouldn't hurt to do the base building.

2004-02-12 10:57 AM
in reply to: #6903

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St. Catharines, Ontario
Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
I would never even consider the Atkins diet. It says oranges are bad, come on now that is going a little far, sugar or not. I've never really counted calories or percentages but I strive for a balanced diet and sometimes I need to eat a lot often. I've had sucess with following a low fat vegitarian diet, however I don't maintain it all the time, just some years when I was especially motivated and felt the need to be really lean. I read the book eating right for your blood type and I believe it. Different people respond to different diets. Type A, me, responds better to a vegitarian diet, type O responds better to more meat and vegitables. Type O would probably do well on the Atkins diet. I know from what's worked for me in the past that I would not last a week on the Atkins diet. I've been told that the best diet for endurance athletes is an Italian diet.
People are the same way with exercise some respond well to higher intensity training and some respond better to low intensity training. I do best when I do long workouts at a lower intensity but I still like to take a lot of rest days and I still love to go really fast sometimes.
I've read a few articles where people have abandoned big mile training and ignored base training and had improvements. I have experimented with this type of training and gone nowhere. I have also noticed that this type of training only works with people who have been training for years and years. They have years of base work. An experienced athlete can get away with training less at a higher intensity for possibly a couple of seasons but everyone needs to go back to rebuild the base eventually. A beginner cannot get away with this. When you are starting out you need to do more to get the same results as the person who has been training for 10 or 20 years. If you don't put in the time you go nowhere.

Edited by owie 2004-02-12 10:58 AM
2004-02-12 5:35 PM
in reply to: #7020

New user
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Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
I have a correction to make to my last post. I just looked at it again and see I added and extra zero to the calorie expenditure - I said my weekly numbers were 16,000 per week - that should have been 1600. You must have thought I lived my life like a hamster on a wheel.
2004-02-12 5:50 PM
in reply to: #7074

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2004-02-12 5:54 PM
in reply to: #6903


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Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
You might want to look at South Beach, it's similiar to Atkins but let's you keep the fruit and veggies. The main carbs that you have to cut out and keep out are refined flours and sugar (the white ones). Even if you don't want to do the diet there are several good recipes in the book. I have lost about 18 pounds in 6 weeks on the diet and with working out a little more.
2004-02-12 7:42 PM
in reply to: #6903

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SF East Bay
Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
Atkins bad. I personally do not like it. Cutting out strawberries and bananas, but I did not study it too well. Maybe it gets better?

I agree with needing more carbs for an endurance athlete. I use a Zone like diet with 50%carbs/30%fats/20%protein and track it very meticulously on the www.24fourfitness.com website. Not a sell for them, I just love the fitness tracker for my calories in and out. I was way too inaccurate in trying to measure my intake until I started logging everthing I ate. For my 5"8" frame at 160lbs my BMR (base metabolic rate) is about 1700 calories/day not doing anything. Then I add my calories burned in excercise (using a heart rate monitor, anywhere from 500-2500/day more) and target 400-500 calories less on intake. I am loosing about 1 pound/week. In some recent reading I found that some healthy fats can actually assist in an endurance regimend, so I would not cut them out. Definitely cut out any processsed sugars, bleached fours, partially hydrogenated oils as these are bad for wieght loss and the high calories do not give a body what it needs. Whole foods is the way to go. I tried starving my body after strenous workouts but this actually seemed to have the opposite effect on me as I did not loose the fat. Its like I am a camel and my body stores the fat reserves for the next workout since I did not feed it. I now down a GU gel energy pack immediately after and the weight loss continues and my recovery times seem quicker. Also, 5-6 meals a day keeps the fat off and gives me plenty for multiple daily workouts. My heart rate monitor average at night keeps me from overtraining. Definitely worth the money, as it keeps my overachieving ego within my physical capabilities.
2004-02-12 9:08 PM
in reply to: #6903

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Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
I really like the Body for Life plan in terms of eating. You watch your servings and you can eat a whole host of different carbs and protein. Plenty of good recipes on their website.

Mike
2004-02-15 10:09 PM
in reply to: #6903

Expert
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Palm Coast, FL
Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
I really like the Zone diet. Started at 219 about 6 weeks ago am at 203 now. Am never hungry and never felt better.
2004-02-16 12:24 AM
in reply to: #6903

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Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?

I agree. The Zone is where its at. I lost 30 pounds on the Zone. Gained some of it back when I started lifting weights but I'm losing it again. I'm never hungry. I eat six times a day, three meals, and three snacks. It's the best. I try to have a 30-30-30 split on carbs, protein and fat, but its usually like 60 (carbs) 30 (protein) and 10 fat. I don't get much fat in my diet.

Atkins is seriously suspect. It asks you to cut out a lot of fruit which I think is bad. Who can live without Strawberries, what is this Cuba!!!???? Anyway, there's also some studies that says it can cause serious health problems.

You need carbs to work out that's just the way it is. The Zone is all about getting the right carbs, those with a low glycemic index which allows your cells to work better and eliminates confusion. The best thing about the Zone is it doesn't talk in terms of good and bad food. It talks in terms of this is what this food does for your body you decide whether you want to eat it.

Check out the book its great. I have the book with recipies. So I don't get bored.



2004-02-16 11:09 AM
in reply to: #6903

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Lubbock, TX
Subject: RE: Atkins Is Bad?
Initially, last year, I started on the Atkins Diet. While I could easily live on meat and cheese, I discovered that eating "smart" is more sensible. What I found was that I snacked out of boredom. Already that cut some calories. I also stay away from most breads, cereals, potatos and paste I also watch my portion sizes. This alone has been a huge help for me in this environment of Super Sizing and All-You-Can-Eat buffets.

I say, eat smart and sensibly. The rest will take care of itself.
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