Are You An HR recruiter?

Welshy to the rescue.

On Monday September 12th, I found out that the company that I have been working at for (apparently) 6.9 years is closing down its facility in Richmond, BC where I work. The company is Raytheon, BTW. I am a software (QA) Engineer.

Raytheon is shutting down in September 2006 and they have offered me employment until July 29, 2006. If I stay here until June 30, 2006, they will give me a retention bonus of 4.5 months salary.

On Tuesday September 20th, I had an interview with another company for a position of a Test Engineer. This is a much smaller company. The job was attractive to me and I will get paid the same amount that I make now give or take $1000/year. The job did have one con in that I will be working for the same boss that I worked for about 2 years ago. He's the one who recruited me actually. He is a nice guy, but is a micromanager which will be hard to work for again.

Sorry for being so long winded, I just wanted to give you some of the background. Today I received an informal job offer via email with a promise of a formal offer letter to be sent to me shortly. Besides not being 100% sure that I want the job, though I am pretty damn sure except for that one con, I didn't mention the rention bonus offered by Raytheon at my interview. I think when I had the interview, I didn't know about the rention bonus yet.

So two questions:
1) In your experience do most employees regret staying with a job for a retention bonus? I think the person on the other thread mentioned that they do.
2) Could I use the retention bonus to negotiate a higher salary though I did give them a salary range in my interview? Or could I use the retention bonus to negotiate a signing bonus? If so, how would you go about approaching the subject.

Thanks,
Jen

Good advice.

I am in the negotiating stage now. I got an informal offer via email this morning (sent late last night) that said, "I just received approval to make you an offer within your requested pay range and someone will write the contract in a couple of days. What start date would you like to see written into your contract (Oct. 17th or the week after)." I haven't responded to this email yet.

When I was interviewed, I was asked what my salary expections were and I gave a $10000 range with my present salary falling in the mid to bottom end of that range. I was informed that the range I gave was perfectly in line with what the job was paying and the job would probably pay in the mid to bottom range of the bracket which is why I assume that I will be making the same as I make now give or take $1000.

I tend to agree that the retention bonus is not worth it for all the reasons that you mentioned. Also some of it gets eaten up in taxes as getting the bonus and a job will definitely put me in a higher tax bracket.

So maybe I should forget about negotiating further. I do think that the salary that they are going to pay me would be in line with what I am worth and I don't really think that I have much reason to negotiate a higher annual salary. But it is difficult to pass up the nice lump sum of the retention bonus, so I thought that I could maybe negotiate that into a signing bonus as that would just be a one time payment. I don't really know how to do that without pitting one employer against the other though as the only reason that I would ask for a signing bonus is because of the retention bonus.

Probably I should just be happy with what I got as the offer is certainly very attractive. This little dialog is great as it is getting me to think about things in different ways.

Jen

Oh yeah, a friend suggested this approach which I also think is a good one.

*******************From my friend**********************************
To be honest the best way to word something is to be as straight up as possible
How about something like,
Also , and I hope it's not to bold of me to mention, at the moment,
Ratheyon has offered me a retention bonus to stay with them until June
30th. Although I would much prefer to move to your company in the very
near future, the bonus is substantial enough for me to mention it to you
while we are in the negotiation phase of the employment offer you have
given me.
******************************************************************

Names have been removed/omitted to protect the innocent.

What do you think?

Jen

My Race Log

E-mail or call and ask what they were considering in terms of a signing bonus, that you didn't see it in the offer letter and were wondering if they are planning on offering you one. If they say no, they migh terr on the higher side of your "range" to try to compensate. The sooner the better. Trick is, act completely as if you diserve it, with no apology whatsoever in your voice.

OMG!  We work for the same company!  Small world (well, big company).  I'm with missile systems here in Tucson.  That's too funny!

Edited by PirateGirl 2005-09-28 2:03 PM

Ratheon?? They've been shutting their doors for years.

Jen,

I'm a recruiter in Minnesota and I have a candidate dealing with a similar situation. So here is what I told him, by the way his retention bonus was the biggest I've ever seen(26 weeks!). "You can stay to the bitter end, take your retention bonus, and maybe get a job offer within a couple weeks after your last day at this company. However, I'm currently working with 5 people at your level who have been looking for a position for months. It's a gamble with the economy not being as secure as we'd all like".

So if it was me, I would forget about the retention bonus, if you aren't too concerned about the job offer and the company, I would take it. In 6 months if the new job proves to suck, then start looking and be VERY picky. It's much easier to search for new employment while you have a job, when your out of work, you tend to search from a more desparate point of view and won't be as picky thus you'll run the risk of making bad choices.

As for the retention bonus as a negotiating tool. You could mention it but I wouldn't push the issue too much. At best they might offer a sign on bonus.

Lastly, I notice you're from BC, any interest in moving to the deep south-Minnesota? My nephew is with Gulf Stream and they have an opening for a QA Engineer in their navigation whatever...I place accountants and engineering scares me.

Good Luck,
Jay

Please don't tell Bill Swanson how much time I spend on BT during working hours. Just kidding. He's probably aware that most people here haven't been working for the past two weeks.

I work in Air Traffic Management Systems under NCS (Colin Sch....lander (no idea on how to spell his name)). We do the same type of work as the facility in Marlboro, so when we are gone all of our programs are transistioning there.

Jen

Jay,

You were exactly the person that I was talking about though I still can't remember which thread that was in. Thanks for chiming in.

I spent the last couple of hours thinking about this (luckily we now have a charge code to use at work for time spent job hunting) and I think that I will just reply to the offer via email stating my acceptance and not mentioning the retention bonus.

I completely agree that the retention bonus is not something that would keep me at Raytheon as the cons of staying to receive the bonus definitely outweigh the pros for all the reasons that have been mentioned and a few more.

So if I am happy with the offer why not just accept it rather than try to negotiate which may or may not be to my benefit. For the next year or so, I will definitely still consider myself very much on the market though.

I am willing to relocate though I think it may be difficult for me to work in the US and I may give up some of my rights (i.e. no voting) as I am not an American citizen. But if the right offer were to ever come along... well anything is possible. I will definitely look into Gulf Stream. Thanks for the tip.

Jen

Point taken.

Good Luck with the new job, hope you hve a great time in a new enviroment.

Jay

Renee is a tech recruiter. Maybe you should PM her.

If you took the bonus, how long would it take you to find another job beyond the closing date? From what you have posted it seems like you aren't starved for offers.

If you are confident of landing another job, take the dough and start applying.

I manage a team of developers. Take the retention bonus. 4.5 months for a Software Engineer is ~25k. Don't worry about the other job, you can always find another, in fact, you'd have 4.5 months and unemployment to figure that out. It's really a simple decision in my mind. There is no reason to play is safe, salaries are in transition again, and at least in Los Angeles, the tech market is hot again. Getting a retention bonus is much easier to extort than a signing bonus.