21

Originally posted by Rogillio

Walmart had announced they will not sell guns or ammo to anyone under 21. I hope they don't sell guns or ammo to Muslims either! I mean, they are more likely to kill people than Christians or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists. If it's ok to discriminate based on age then why not religion? Maybe not sell to woman either since most woman don't know how to handle a gun.

This was TIC but only partly.

I have always thought it was wrong to deny an 18 yo the right to buy a beer. At 18 he can join the military and go off to war and die for his country but he is not 'responsible' enough to buy a beer? If he commits a crime he will be tried as an adult in a court of law. If he commits a serious crime he can be sentenced to life in prison or sentenced to death. But he can't buy a beer. He can enter a contract, buy a house, take out a loan, buy a car and he can vote in our elections. But he can't buy a beer. He can get married, father a child or two but he still cannot buy a beer. He can go in any casino in Vegas and gamble till he is broke but while the casino is taking his money, he cannot buy a beer.

I believe this is age discrimination but the only reason these state laws are allowed to stand it because no one has filed a lawsuit to challenge them. And no one likely ever will. No lawyer wants to be known as the guy who allowed 18 yo kids the right to drink alcohol.

When I was 18 and off at college we'd occasional go to my family's camp on Bayou Louis and go hunting. I can't image having to have Dad buy my ammunition for my guns because WallyWorld would not sell me ammo!

Right now the country is a little off it's nut....

Originally posted by Rogillio I hope they don't sell guns or ammo to Muslims either! I mean, they are more likely to kill people than Christians or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists.

Originally posted by Stacers

Seriously? You think most gun deaths in the United States are caused by Muslims? Any stats on that? I'm gonna say crazy white dude shootings and black gang related shootings are far more likely than Muslim shootings in the US. 

Originally posted by Stacers

Seriously? You think most gun deaths[ in the United States are caused by Muslims? Any stats on that? I'm gonna say crazy white dude shootings and black gang related shootings are far more likely than Muslim shootings in the US. 

Originally posted by mdg2003




Maybe he had too much coffee coursing through his system when he wrote that.

Raising the age is a corporate decision. A feel good decision, but at least they're trying to do something. We complain about corporate responsibility all the time; Walmart usually gets bad marks in that category. I can support their decision to run their company as they deem fit. After one of the previous shootings, Academy stopped online gun shopping and I believe ( I could be wrong, relying on memory here) gun sales altogether. That corporate decision was reversed pretty quickly though when bottom line started to suffer.

Could this have stopped Cruz? Actually it might have. Everyone and I mean everyone, appears to have known this guy was nuts. He might have had some ammo, but if he couldn't procure his own, do you think his foster parents would have gotten him more once he ran out of ammo at the range? I don't think so, accounts indicate they tried to get his guns taken from him.

Unfortunately this idea will be harder to enforce and take even longer to be effective than banning guns would. Most shooters I know buy in bulk for each caliber they shoot. It's going to take everyone raising the age, not just walmart to be a deterrent. They have to take reloading supplies into consideration too.

Originally posted by Rogillio I did not say gun deaths. I said they kill more people. Add up 9/11, Boston Marathon, Orlando disco, Ft Hood shooting, Little Rock recruiting office, NYC subway attacks, Chattanooga shooting, Ohio State attacks, Lower Manhattan, San Bernardino attack....These attacks alone killed or injured 9,377 Americans. Given that Muslims make up 1% of US....."the math is left as an exercise for the reader"*. Use to hate seeing that in my college textbooks!

Originally posted by Stacers

Ahh, the double edged sword that is logic.

Originally posted by Stacers

Ok, so we're going back to 2001 here, which means those 9,377 deaths average 552 a year.

Meanwhile, 15,549 non-suicide gun deaths in 2017 alone in the US. 

You're comparing apples to oranges by comparing terrorist attacks to gun deaths and I know you know that. The idea is to sell less guns to the people who are shooting other people. So increasing a age limit doesn't seem super excessive to me. Ceasing to sell guns to ALL Muslims would be excessive, considering that most gun deaths in the US are not caused by Muslims.

I like how you think though - maybe we should just stop selling guns to MEN, since they're the ones doing most of this...

Originally posted by Rogillio I did not say gun deaths. I said they kill more people. Add up 9/11, Boston Marathon, Orlando disco, Ft Hood shooting, Little Rock recruiting office, NYC subway attacks, Chattanooga shooting, Ohio State attacks, Lower Manhattan, San Bernardino attack....These attacks alone killed or injured 9,377 Americans. Given that Muslims make up 1% of US....."the math is left as an exercise for the reader"*. Use to hate seeing that in my college textbooks!

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

You went from Muslims are more likely to kill people than all the other major religions, to giving a number that reflects deaths and injuries. And you had to go back 17 years to capture a single event that accounted for 97% of those murders and 99% of those casualties. 2,966 people died on 9/11. All the other attacks you mentioned total 95 deaths. 

So since our country averages more or less about 15,000 murders a year, we've had about a quarter million murders from 2002-2017. Those 95 kills works out to around 0.04%. Or another way to look at it, for the past 16 years it averages out to 6 murders/year.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Rog - whatever Bob says is suspect.  He is from St. Louis and those people kill more people per capita than everybody else.  I think he's a plant in this discussion (probably paid by the Russians)......just warning you.  He's prolly worse than those Muslim types.

Originally posted by Left Brain

I did UCR reports for 12 years......it does track hate crimes, and it breaks those crimes down even further by which religion the bias was toward.  As far as retrieving the information on a National level, I don't know.....never did it.

On another note.....as you know, any stat you are looking for will only be as good as the people entering the information.  I can't say how many times a "hate crime" is entered, but it's an optional field for many agencies, so there's that.

Originally posted by Left Brain

I did UCR reports for 12 years......it does track hate crimes, and it breaks those crimes down even further by which religion the bias was toward.  As far as retrieving the information on a National level, I don't know.....never did it.

On another note.....as you know, any stat you are looking for will only be as good as the people entering the information.  I can't say how many times a "hate crime" is entered, but it's an optional field for many agencies, so there's that.

Originally posted by McFuzz

And the corollary...any stat will only be as good as it's applicability to your situation.  

As has already been discussed in this thread, the statistics about violence perpetrated by muslims can be sliced and diced and specified in either a favorable or unfavorable direction.  

Originally posted by Oysterboy


When I was in high school the drinking age was 18, this meant that by the end of the school year nearly the entire senior class could buy alcohol and those that could not had several friends that could. I also graduated in 1977 which meant that the cars we could afford to buy (7-10 years old) were from the golden age of the american muscle car. Put fast cars and available alcohol together and 8 kids from my senior class (size ~ 250 students) died or were seriously injured in car crashes. They raised the drinking limit to 21 a few years later and, unsurprisingly, the death rate plummeted.

Look, at 18 years old most lack a level of maturity that gives them license to make mistakes, that is what that age is all about. Alcohol just magnifies it and usually not in good ways. Our society will grapple with if this is the correct age to purchase firearms. I would argue that this does not restrict them from using a firearm, just the purchasing. Wait until you are 21 and perhaps can apply a more mature thinking pattern before purchasing a weapon.

Maybe the question should not be if 18 is old enough to buy beer or a rifle, but is 18 old enough to join the military?

Originally posted by Rogillio




Along these line, why not raise the voting age to 21?

http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/27/time-raise-voting-age-back-21/